The Message

[ManApart]

ManApart, what also has to be taken into consideration is which text they translators used when translating the bible. The ASB and NASB omit verses and partial verses, where the KJV and NJKV add them. It all depends on whether the translators used the "Majority" or "Received" text, or if they used the "Critical" text. The KJ Versions used the first and the ASB Versions used the later.

Yes...agree, very much so. That knowledge brings greater discernment then when reading. One can seperate the Divine Nature from human nature.

[Guest shiloh357]

Hello, Manapart

If you would like to know more about the history of the Judeo- Christian Bible, I would be more than happy to share what is actually myth and so on. Just because something is a myth, it does not mean it is false. A myth can be described as a falsehood portraying a truth. When man could not comprehend the fullness of something as nature or the divine, he had to explain what he experienced the best way he knew how. Myths are the oldest form of story telling. The characters and so on were not meant to be real in that sense; they were trying to express a truth experienced.

Except the Bible does not ever treat any of its characters as mythical or unreal. Which characters do you think were unreal? What is your position on stories like the parting of the Red Sea? The Miracles of Jesus?

How do you view the inspiration and inerrancy of Scripture?

[OneLight]

How insignificant is it then to argue over one English version, in a line of MANY!

because;

2Ti 4:2

Preach the word; be diligent in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

2Ti 4:3

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they draw to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

2Ti 4:4

And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto myths.

I agree... I do, but my point was that knowing those scriptures you mentioned, we should have reverence for the original oracles, not argue over one of the many distorted versions. No point in fighting or arguing over the many new versions and translations...we know they are not accurate, but they still can be beneficial for edification.

Plus we have to understand that the Word of God is not eh words in black on a white page. Those change; always have always will. God does not change,. and the Word does not either. The Word of God is the message; the morals, principles, teachings, characteristics, and attributes of the Divine nature expressed by man through inspiration. That does not change, and is what students should be focusing on, not all the fantasy and story-telling most endure. So we do see today that the majority have turned from the truth....seems most fantasy, fables, and myths are being taken as literal.

May grace and peace be with you....

You are confusing. You say that we should strive to know God, but excuse the lies in a book that someone calls the bible which can lead someone down the wrong path. Didn't Christ come to shine light into the darkness, and has He not told us to do the same? I do agree that we should go back to the copies of the originals that are available today and glean from them as much guidance as we can. Then what? Are we to remain silent when we see errors?

It all comes down to discernment. I understand that it may seem confusing. I was there at one point early on in my studies. When I got into Seminary studies, I came across many things that went against what I was taught growing up. That is okay, because I understand that we are taught very dogmatic beliefs. Many denominations is many divisions, focusing on their own ideas and theories instead of the core principles of the teachings.

With growth comes greater discernment. One must continue to grow and mature mentally, emotionally, and spiritually, and this brings greater discernment. Look at what we have when it comes to scripture. Go back to the beginnings and study the original manuscripts. Get to knoe the author, who he was writing to, why he was writing. Understand the cultural perspective. You will see what we have today is not what was intended. It has been changed, omitted, and exaggerated more than you know. So yes, strive to know the Nature of God. We know there is many alterations, so do we ignore everything? I guarentee you that you will not find one perfect translation form the original text. Even the KJV has its issues.

BUT...if you read and study to find those mistranslations and misinterpretations, you are missing the whole point of the enlightened teachings. Read to receive the message with the guidance of the Spirit, and search for the Nature being expressed. Whose to say that a scripture enlightens your world, and you write your experience down, only to give a revelation to another, bringing them to Christ. Your writing was insprired, and a Divine movement came upon you, unctioning you to write. Your words...your experience, should we burn or throw away your expression you shared because it was not exactly like the original manuscripts thousands of years ago? I would think not. I would feel blessed to read it, and would use my discernment to test the spirits, and make my own decision whether or not, your writing is edifying to me.

May grace and peace be with you, and I apologize for any confusion....

Brother, I did not mean that I was confused by the means of which we come to the truth, but how you write things. Sorry for not making this clear.

[OneLight]

How insignificant is it then to argue over one English version, in a line of MANY!

because;

2Ti 4:2

Preach the word; be diligent in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

2Ti 4:3

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they draw to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

2Ti 4:4

And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto myths.

I agree... I do, but my point was that knowing those scriptures you mentioned, we should have reverence for the original oracles, not argue over one of the many distorted versions. No point in fighting or arguing over the many new versions and translations...we know they are not accurate, but they still can be beneficial for edification.

Plus we have to understand that the Word of God is not eh words in black on a white page. Those change; always have always will. God does not change,. and the Word does not either. The Word of God is the message; the morals, principles, teachings, characteristics, and attributes of the Divine nature expressed by man through inspiration. That does not change, and is what students should be focusing on, not all the fantasy and story-telling most endure. So we do see today that the majority have turned from the truth....seems most fantasy, fables, and myths are being taken as literal.

May grace and peace be with you....

You are confusing. You say that we should strive to know God, but excuse the lies in a book that someone calls the bible which can lead someone down the wrong path. Didn't Christ come to shine light into the darkness, and has He not told us to do the same? I do agree that we should go back to the copies of the originals that are available today and glean from them as much guidance as we can. Then what? Are we to remain silent when we see errors?

And are we to remain quiet? NO. This is why I share what I do. Most have not studied the history of the Christian Church and do not understand the depth of dogma within the core teachings we receive in Church. I applied myself to know, to study and learn....to seek the truth and grow. I have studied and studied more than you know...I tested the spirits. Unfortuneately most of what we believed as true within mainstream Christianity, has not been taught correctly. So no, do not remain quiet. You will learn of many things...share them.

Thank you, I have been doing that for many years.

[ayin jade]

ManApart, so that I understand you, please tell me who Jesus is, and how one is saved.

[Guest]

ManApart, what also has to be taken into consideration is which text they translators used when translating the bible. The ASB and NASB omit verses and partial verses, where the KJV and NJKV add them. It all depends on whether the translators used the "Majority" or "Received" text, or if they used the "Critical" text. The KJ Versions used the first and the ASB Versions used the later.

Yes...agree, very much so. That knowledge brings greater discernment then when reading. One can separate the Divine Nature from human nature.

If You Know Jesus

See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever. Deuteronomy 36:39-40

You Know God

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. Matthew 11:28-30

And If You Don't

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:35-36

____________

Believe

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. John 10:9

And Be Blessed Beloved

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. John 10:10

Love, Joe

[ManApart]

To be a follower of Christ...there is a reason there are no true images of Jesus. Too many people even today, become to obsessed with the imagery of the image of Christ and fail to learn his Nature. His Nature is the only way we can become truly intimate and personal with Christ. That comes with prayer, meditation, contemplation, and most of studying who Jesus really was. Removing the contortions and manipulations of scripture. One has to know how he walked, thought, taught, spoke, etc...and to know it thoroughly, one has to understand the Jewish culture, traditions and customs. Get to know Jesus personally.

That's not true.

For one to truly and thoroughly know who Jesus Christ was, and is, having an understanding of the cultural is essential. Jesus, the disciples, the apostles....all Jewish. Jewish observance of festivals, holy days, feasts, customs, and traditions.

Is it needed for ones Salvation? Probably not, but who can say when one allows Jesus into their hearts. We are saved by grace through faith, yes. But when one comes to truly want that intimate and personal relationship, then they strive to know all there is to know. I wanted to know exactly and and why he walked, talked, thought and act. How did he feel, how to he react? As a student studies Jesus, the culture has to be considered. It opens up, expounds, and brings the context of the Hebrew/Jewish scriptures.

For example, When Jesus was crucified, the Gospels express the event, and vary. But in the Gospel of John, it says that Jesus said " It is finished..", then gives up the ghost. By basic teachings, we are not told much about that except that it means that the work of the cross was done. Although correct and beautiful, it is not the reason that the phase, " It is Finished.." was said. Unless you know the culture, you miss the beautiful teaching and spirit enlightening context of what our Lord and Savior did.

On that day, it was the day when the lambs for passover were brought into the city to be bleed out for passover. Thousands could line up and the High Priest and other priest would come to the court yard and line up. Families would then bring froth their animals. The very first animal was special. The very first lamb, was for the entire city of Jerusalem; the Passover Lamb, for yearly sins. The High Priest would hold the knife to the throat of the lamb and before he slit the throat, he would say loudly, "It is finished..", for the remission of the sins of Israel. Only the High Priest could preform this action.

As Jesus hung and bleed, He said " It is finished'' right before the Passover Lamb was slaughtered. Jesus took the place of the Passover Lamb for the permanent remission of sins. Beautiful, but that is not all. Only the High Priest could say it, and as Jesus said that, He showed His position as High Priest, the Eternal High Priest. How beautiful is that?! Takes the place as the Passover Lamb, and speaks boldly His position as High Priest.

Without having understanding of the Jewish customs of Passover, then one misses out. It does not question or determine one's salvation, it merely allows one to get closer and more intimate about the Nature of Christ.

Remember in the Gospel of Luke, chapter 7, where the widow's son was raised from the dead by Christ? Verses 11-18. The Ancient city of Nain, modern Arab city of Nein, is the territory of Issachar. That is the area where Elijah raised the Shunamite's dead son. That story was the center of what connected that area to biblical events. It was a story passed down. In the Gospel of Luke, there was a funeral and Jesus and His disciples were passing by. In those times, it was the custom that everything stops for the respect of a funeral passing. Only things that can stop a funeral is a wedding or the King of Israel. As Jesus came to the funeral He held out his hand, placing it in the coffin,and stopped the funeral.

We have two beautiful points. The first, was that as Jesus resurrected the boy, it brought remembrance of the past to the surface. Second and most beautiful, is the statement Jesus made with His actions. Obviously there was no wedding...he stopped the funeral and said by that action that He is the King. BEAUTIUL!!

I pray that you understand that getting to know the culture expounds and reveals treasures in the scriptures.....Jesus is my Lord, Savior, and King, and I personally desire to know his Nature.

God Bless and may grace and peace be with you.

[ManApart]

but they still can be beneficial for edification.

I disagree wholeheratedly.

How can a house built upon shifting sand be beneficial for edification?

It has been proven in this thread that The Message purports itself to be a Bible and not merely a translation. Therefore, we are commanded to examine it. It also has been shown in this thread that it distorts the God of our Gospel.

We have two opitons here. To fully embrace it or caste it off.

We have a scriptural mandate;

1Jo 4:1

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2Co 11:2

For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

2Co 11:3

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his cunning, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

2Co 11:4

For if he that comes preaches another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if you receive another spirit, which you have not received, or another gospel, which you have not accepted, you might well bear with him.

Ga 1:7

Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Ga 1:8

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Ga 1:9

As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that you have received, let him be accursed.

Back to the point that I disagree with you about. How can there be any Light coming from the darkness?

Mt 6:22

The light of the body is the eye: if therefore your eye be sound, your whole body shall be full of light.

Mt 6:23

But if your eye be evil, your whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you be darkness, how great is that darkness!

"Be careful what you see little eyes little eyes, be careful what you see little eyes. Be careful what you hear little ears little ears, be careful what you hear little ears. Be careful whom you trust little heart little heart, be careful whom you trust little heart. For the Father up above is looking down in Love"

Grace and Peace to you too brother,

Dave

I appreciate your reply, and understand. I can relate to the perspective you have. For someone raised in Mainstream Christianity, never really advancing their studies, or for someone coming to Christianity, the very altered versions are not for them. I would agree on that 100 %. Some versions are very helpful, while some can cause more bad than good. Personally, I do not like the Message Bible that much. But it can be beneficial for teaching and expounding the scriptures. What is your version you are true to? Most raised in the church, as myself, would say the Authorized King James. Established in the 1600's. Even that version has it alterations. So do we discard the King James? What about American Standard, or Amplified? Different translation and interpretations based on the writer, giving another expression of what was received. If we argue over the versions, then everyone is out of there pretty much. We can access ancient manuscripts, and some versions use these to get closer to the original meaning.

My stance on the various versions, I study and read. I test the spirits, and compare the translations with the original Hebrew/ Aramaic and Greek. I always have my KJV, but also have many other versions for cross reference and expounding.

I have a foundation. I know my heart and where I am with the Divine Nature. I can read and study historical documents, manuscripts, other holy oracles, and not be swayed or dismayed. I know the core truths of the characteristics and attributes of the Divine Nature.

All the verses you used are great, and I agree...I do. I do know that following Christ, and the avenues of discipleship, varies for everyone. You should never base your walk on any one else's.

I think students should have not just the KJV, but concordances, dictionaries, and whatever version helps them to understand the scripture...

Thank you again brother for your reply, and I pray that conversation and sharing edifies us both.

Bless you brother,

What is your version you are true to? Most raised in the church, as myself, would say the Authorized King James. Established in the 1600's. Even that version has it alterations. So do we discard the King James? What about American Standard, or Amplified? Different translation and interpretations based on the writer, giving another expression of what was received. If we argue over the versions, then everyone is out of there pretty much. We can access ancient manuscripts, and some versions use these to get closer to the original meaning.

The common translations out there may have translational errors (In your opinion) and they may not, but they definately do not intentionally change the meaning of the Word.

I have a software package with all the reliable texts in it.

Divine Nature

Unpack this thought for me. What does this mean?

I do know that following Christ, and the avenues of discipleship, varies for everyone

We are all walking our walk and we are all working out our Salvation with fear and great trembling. At least I hope. However, we are all following the Same Christ Jesus who is God come in the Flesh. Therefore, we are all born into the same Kingdom. We are all being discipled in the same Faith. One Body One Faith. Christ is the head.

Jesus said this;

Joh 14:6

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

No one gets to the Father except by jesus. Therefore, if this Bible is presenting another Jesus, another understanding, wouldn't you agree that it's dangerous?

Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad that were conversing too.

Peace,

Dave

I use the term Divine Nature when I am speaking Of my perspective and impression of "God". We know that God is not a man, but we see that in scripture man uses anthropromorphism. That's human nature; when something such as the Divine, is so far beyond man's comprehension, the only way he can relate and identify with the Nature is to personify it. God gets human attributes.

In the book of Isaiah, Deutero-Isaiah, chapter 55, we know it says that God says His ways and thoughts are higher than ours. God is not man, and His ways and thoughts are not ours.

When we get to know someone, like a friend, or spouse, or family, we end up connecting and responding to their nature. This is the heart and being of who we are. Our consciousness, feelings, emotions...our depth of desires and intentions; we release divine energy in pulses and waves. We bond with each others nature. We can put on masks and facades, but our nature will manifest.

This is the journey and approach we take to Jesus and our relationship with the Father. We become more intimate and personal, with the characteristics, attributes, and personality of God. That is the essence of what scripture was intended for, to express an experience with the Divine, with the awesome and eternal Divine Nature. That Nature is the standard; all scripture when tested is tested by the standard of the Divine nature of God, expressed perfectly by the Son Jesus Christ, Yeshua HaMaschiach.

The Nature is what we should be relating to and experiencing. Not some imagery of the image of Christ. The Divine Nature is an Intelligent Energy and Essence, and that is what I relate to, not the anthropormorphic imagery of Zeus and Hellenism.

May grace and peace be with you...God Bless!

[ManApart]

but they still can be beneficial for edification.

I disagree wholeheratedly.

How can a house built upon shifting sand be beneficial for edification?

It has been proven in this thread that The Message purports itself to be a Bible and not merely a translation. Therefore, we are commanded to examine it. It also has been shown in this thread that it distorts the God of our Gospel.

We have two opitons here. To fully embrace it or caste it off.

We have a scriptural mandate;

1Jo 4:1

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2Co 11:2

For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

2Co 11:3

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his cunning, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

2Co 11:4

For if he that comes preaches another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if you receive another spirit, which you have not received, or another gospel, which you have not accepted, you might well bear with him.

Ga 1:7

Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Ga 1:8

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Ga 1:9

As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that you have received, let him be accursed.

Back to the point that I disagree with you about. How can there be any Light coming from the darkness?

Mt 6:22

The light of the body is the eye: if therefore your eye be sound, your whole body shall be full of light.

Mt 6:23

But if your eye be evil, your whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you be darkness, how great is that darkness!

"Be careful what you see little eyes little eyes, be careful what you see little eyes. Be careful what you hear little ears little ears, be careful what you hear little ears. Be careful whom you trust little heart little heart, be careful whom you trust little heart. For the Father up above is looking down in Love"

Grace and Peace to you too brother,

Dave

I appreciate your reply, and understand. I can relate to the perspective you have. For someone raised in Mainstream Christianity, never really advancing their studies, or for someone coming to Christianity, the very altered versions are not for them. I would agree on that 100 %. Some versions are very helpful, while some can cause more bad than good. Personally, I do not like the Message Bible that much. But it can be beneficial for teaching and expounding the scriptures. What is your version you are true to? Most raised in the church, as myself, would say the Authorized King James. Established in the 1600's. Even that version has it alterations. So do we discard the King James? What about American Standard, or Amplified? Different translation and interpretations based on the writer, giving another expression of what was received. If we argue over the versions, then everyone is out of there pretty much. We can access ancient manuscripts, and some versions use these to get closer to the original meaning.

My stance on the various versions, I study and read. I test the spirits, and compare the translations with the original Hebrew/ Aramaic and Greek. I always have my KJV, but also have many other versions for cross reference and expounding.

I have a foundation. I know my heart and where I am with the Divine Nature. I can read and study historical documents, manuscripts, other holy oracles, and not be swayed or dismayed. I know the core truths of the characteristics and attributes of the Divine Nature.

All the verses you used are great, and I agree...I do. I do know that following Christ, and the avenues of discipleship, varies for everyone. You should never base your walk on any one else's.

I think students should have not just the KJV, but concordances, dictionaries, and whatever version helps them to understand the scripture...

Thank you again brother for your reply, and I pray that conversation and sharing edifies us both.

Bless you brother,

What is your version you are true to? Most raised in the church, as myself, would say the Authorized King James. Established in the 1600's. Even that version has it alterations. So do we discard the King James? What about American Standard, or Amplified? Different translation and interpretations based on the writer, giving another expression of what was received. If we argue over the versions, then everyone is out of there pretty much. We can access ancient manuscripts, and some versions use these to get closer to the original meaning.

The common translations out there may have translational errors (In your opinion) and they may not, but they definately do not intentionally change the meaning of the Word.

I have a software package with all the reliable texts in it.

Divine Nature

Unpack this thought for me. What does this mean?

I do know that following Christ, and the avenues of discipleship, varies for everyone

We are all walking our walk and we are all working out our Salvation with fear and great trembling. At least I hope. However, we are all following the Same Christ Jesus who is God come in the Flesh. Therefore, we are all born into the same Kingdom. We are all being discipled in the same Faith. One Body One Faith. Christ is the head.

Jesus said this;

Joh 14:6

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

No one gets to the Father except by jesus. Therefore, if this Bible is presenting another Jesus, another understanding, wouldn't you agree that it's dangerous?

Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad that were conversing too.

Peace,

Dave

I use the term Divine Nature when I am speaking Of my perspective and impression of "God". We know that God is not a man, but we see that in scripture man uses anthropromorphism. That's human nature; when something such as the Divine, is so far beyond man's comprehension, the only way he can relate and identify with the Nature is to personify it. God gets human attributes.

In the book of Isaiah, Deutero-Isaiah, chapter 55, we know it says that God says His ways and thoughts are higher than ours. God is not man, and His ways and thoughts are not ours.

When we get to know someone, like a friend, or spouse, or family, we end up connecting and responding to their nature. This is the heart and being of who we are. Our consciousness, feelings, emotions...our depth of desires and intentions; we release divine energy in pulses and waves. We bond with each others nature. We can put on masks and facades, but our nature will manifest.

This is the journey and approach we take to Jesus and our relationship with the Father. We become more intimate and personal, with the characteristics, attributes, and personality of God. That is the essence of what scripture was intended for, to express an experience with the Divine, with the awesome and eternal Divine Nature. That Nature is the standard; all scripture when tested is tested by the standard of the Divine nature of God, expressed perfectly by the Son Jesus Christ, Yeshua HaMaschiach.

The Nature is what we should be relating to and experiencing. Not some imagery of the image of Christ. The Divine Nature is an Intelligent Energy and Essence, and that is what I relate to, not the anthropormorphic imagery of Zeus and Hellenism.

May grace and peace be with you...God Bless!

[ManApart]

ManApart, so that I understand you, please tell me who Jesus is, and how one is saved.

Salvation is simple in the love of it's availability. " For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast." Faith is best described with the word "trust". To me , trust comes from my belief in the sincerity of God's love, and Jesus' life. I trust, so i belief and have faith that He is true to His message and that His Nature is abundant for enlightenment. Salvation is a mindset. Many believe that just because one says they are saved, they are saved. Anyone can say it, all day every day, but if the heart is not right, it is in vain. The heart is the feelings, emotions, and depths of desire and motives that orchestrate our walk. It's a mindset and attitude. Free will choice and decision. It also takes time and faithfulness to continue the walk. Grace allows me the opportunity to adjust my mind and heart to align with the plan and will of God. He allows me to choose to be obedient and follow Jesus with all my heart.

Jesus is my Savior. He was there for me, patiently waiting. His walk and life is what I put my sincere and honest trust in, and examining His nature, embarrassed the mindset of Christ, allowing that Universal Divine Intelligence to adjust my spiritual polarity. A man? God in the flesh? Half man, half God? Enlightened One?....the question and standpoint that has caused the most death and argument in the history of the Christian Church. Creeds would change and each ruler changed the belief of the whole body, bringing murders within the church. A question that does not change or sway any part of my belief in who Jesus was, is, and what he did for me. His example is my foundation...

Grace and peace be with you brother....