Worthy Worry!

[oak]

Recently, I have encountered a dangerous trend in worthy. It supersedes the atheist and skeptic mode. For the first time I now see that people are coming towards the Bible in a semi-scholastic, sophomoric way. They basically lean on their own knowledge.

To start with (humor me) a basic guide to logic – a=b. If (a) is true then (b) is true. If insects share some common characteristic than we can easily put them in this category. Therefore, insects=mosquitoes. There are thousands of permutations of the model including fallacies with arrows, unequal signs and so forth.

Similarly, there are musicians who have little bit of knowledge and try to impress others with their “unparallel” view of music and say they mastered diatonic scale. Well all scales are based on the C scale and all they’re saying is that they found a different note to start with. Yes there are minor keys but still based on the c major scale. That’s, do(I) re(2) mi(3) fa(4) so(5) la(6) ti(7) – do (repeat 1 in a higher pitch); minor: do(1) re(2) me -flat note one behind (3) fa (4) so (5) le - flat note (6) te - flat note (7)- do. Rock is based on I, IV, V= do ©, fa (F), and so (G)- though keys can vary, you can play “Twist and Shout,” “ I Love Rock n’ Roll,” “La Bamba” etc., all are, playable with these three chords. With a little variation you can Play Little Red Corvette, Why don’t we do it in the Road (adding 11 note). If you want to go for a touch of the esoteric : do©, Flat le (Am), fa (F) so (G) which is I-6-4-5 = Run Around Sue, Beyond the Sea, Goodnight Sweet Heart, I Will, You Take a Piece Of Me (minus bridge).

Why am I going through this pain? To show you everything under the stars has its own purpose and system except the Bible. In the Bible, 1=3 (a logical contradiction) in terms of God and the Trinity.... The Bible has God’s Mind at play. It doesn’t fit the earthly scheme of things. Even in terms of common sense, a Virgin Birth, a Crucifixion and then a Resurrection of the Son of God for our Salvation and the conquering of death (only Christian dogma); the manifestation of the Holy Spirit. It’s beyond any thought process known to man, yet I believe. I know in my heart it is the Truth and I have the freedom to choose it or not. Know I have nothing against – in fact encourage – people finding out more. But something is breaking down from the questions of the past. Internet teens will be saying where is the Atom Bomb mentioned in the Bible? With genetic science growing soon you will probably be able to give our kids special features (like looking like me, kidding). What will our response be then? Also, we are mired in the 60’s boom generations; there will be opportunities to get yourself killed before your time (voluntarily or not). And what’s more, science has developed a memory pill – it could have been on the market except it causes PSTD (post traumatic disorder).

Most importantly, where do we stand morally? Do we want Worthy to be a quiz show? I know, this started with a sophomore-type that knows some logic terms (but probably never read Socrates or Aristotle) making a cool stance on homosexuality. Well, you know, I would like as many people saved as possible, I had two seminarian friends who were homosexual friends but died of aids; I hope Christ accepts them. He will not accept them or anyone that has, “I have all knowing proud approach towards God or the Bible.” In short morally, if anything we went downhill. And God is unchangeable. By the Bible we know enough about Salvation but we don’t know or think like God. Yet I find more and more, the new trend is not following God morally but for educational purposes and to make a statements about how “bright” you think you are. What a waste.

Oak

[winsomebulldog]

I've seen the same thing. I'm part of LadyC's group that's just started reading the Bible in Chronological order in 90 days and today's reading was exclusively from Job. I came away with thoughts much like what you have said. IE, too many of us seem to tend to act and talk like we know the very mind of God. We back up this supposed "knowledge" with arrogant attitudes and haughty demeanors. We seem to be losing our humility and along with it our love and compassion for others, whether they're fellow Christians or among the lost. It seems that we just don't want to admit that we don't have all the answers or worse, we try to fit the Bible into our pathetically limited sphere of understanding when no such thing is possible. As you said, in the Bible, 1=3, which flat out flies in the face of all our human derived logic. It's a shame that even many Christians are starting to sink into that trend of trying to make God and His Word fit into our human scientific boxes.

[Isaiah 6:8]

That is why I seem to be putting more and more of the Word in my replies,whole chapters even so the biblical context is not missed.

[Guest]

.

Either

Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. Psalms 119:11

Or

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36

Not

[Littlelambseativy]

There used to be more freedom of discussion and less dictatorial authority. As you said 1=3. Though all agree, should anyone wish to discuss, the discussion is ended. As I pointed out in another post brother in many parts of the world means something different than it does in the English language. It means cousin, brother-in-law and brother. The English language is not absolute. neither is any language there are so many difficulties in the translation of a word or meaning in a paragraph or book. We miss out a great deal by not being open to ideas. The Bible stands firm in its meaning - there is no question but after so many translations even going back to the original - look in our time the meaning of the words 'gay' and 'cool' generations from now would question and argue over the meaning of a phrase just by those 2 words.

Discussion is good if it offends the way one thinks of a topic look that person should look away and let the rest discuss.

There is learning in discussion as long as there is no hostility.

[Smalcald]

One thing I have also noticed not just on this board but in other areas is the false idea that the bible translations that we have today, KJ, NKJ, NIV, etc, are essentially all wrong and that if you don't read Greek and Hebrew you can't really read or understand the Word of God and that the bible itself can only be read in the context of the exact historical circumstances of 2000-5000 years ago.

The fact is all of those translations were given to us by recognized biblical scholars and translators who understand and understood the ancient languages in great detail and have given us accurate translations. In addition God has given us the bible, not man, the Church had given us this Bible and protected the Word of God, part of having faith is having faith in what God told us about His Word and His Church and that is that the gates of Hell will not prevail against it. Secondly Holy Scripture was written with us in mind as well as the ancients as well as people who will live 500 years from now, the context of the bible is eternity, not 2000 years ago. You do not need to know the historical context of the bible writers, they were writing for all humanity for all time. Sure it can be interesting to understand the context, but it is not required, the bible stands alone on its own merits for us to read and apply today for our lives and for our culture. The Word of God contained in the Bible is Spirit and is Power, it is not some sort of history book or book of ancient wisdom or literature. The words contained there are the only words that have the power to bring us to salvation.

The scholastic method of historical critique is not valid for Holy Scripture, I honestly believe that what we are seeing in this area is the work of satan who hates the Word of God and is desperate to try to cast dispersions on the plain words of scripture.

[oak]

There used to be more freedom of discussion and less dictatorial authority. As you said 1=3. Though all agree, should anyone wish to discuss, the discussion is ended. As I pointed out in another post brother in many parts of the world means something different than it does in the English language. It means cousin, brother-in-law and brother. The English language is not absolute. neither is any language there are so many difficulties in the translation of a word or meaning in a paragraph or book. We miss out a great deal by not being open to ideas. The Bible stands firm in its meaning - there is no question but after so many translations even going back to the original - look in our time the meaning of the words 'gay' and 'cool' generations from now would question and argue over the meaning of a phrase just by those 2 words.

Discussion is good if it offends the way one thinks of a topic look that person should look away and let the rest discuss.

There is learning in discussion as long as there is no hostility.

First of all not all Christians believe, 1=3. I also put my basic beliefs down of which other Christians might not agree with. Not every Christian denomination believes in the Holy Spirit in the way I put forth. I think all things can and should be discussed; I am free not to participate. My main point was to openly react to what I find is a new approach to viewing or discussing the Bible. That is discussing it just like any other book from people who consider themselves Christian.

This comes at a frightful time where we see churches changing doctrine due to man’s dictates. What is more the inclusion of homosexuals is just the start of confusing Christians. On the horizon there are going to many new inventions – such as genetically changing the DNA of a person. How we handle these show our view of the Bible and our integrity as Christians. My concern is that we never lose sight of the Bible being a book of Faith. If we approach it through a system of linguistics or logic and hold to opinions that are anti-faith, we will see the Bible as a fantastic History book. There is a reverence and approach that is lacking that will cause confusion and could be likened to a fun and game approach. I have engaged or sometimes just read the views of atheists, skeptics and Muslims etc. Their point of view is clear. Christians have argued and should continue to argue in terms of their set of beliefs; and most hold their belief as sacred and their challenges come from a tradition that most of us are aware of like OSAS etc. They are serious about belief and the Bible. But what I’m beginning to see is an approach by Christians that is equivalent to a crossword puzzle. I don’t mind discussing the Bible with them but what I see from them is lack of concern for the topic and lack of understanding about faith. That scares me. Because it is not knowledge of the Truth that is being sought but rather a game. I admit there are gray areas. But I see a trend that is destructive and that is starting to manifest itself. It’s delving into the Bible without a soul. I believe the Bible to be a guide to a soul and I feel most people that I have spoken to feel their putting thought into their salvation which is very real for them. I feel as Christians our intent is very important. In closing, I am seeing Christians that take on the Bible without concern for salvation.

Oak

[Smalcald]

The bible itself is Spiritual, it is not a human document open to debate by humans about its origins, about how the language was used, about the historical context etc. The Church has protected and given us the Word of God, this is part of what Christ meant when He said the gates of hell will not prevail against this Church. The gates of hell are attempting to deconstruct the bible using historical criticism, trying to say that the book is a human document open to error, open to context, open to ongoing problems.

This is not true, the bible translations we have are very accurate.

[MeCajunboy]

Recently, I have encountered a dangerous trend in worthy. It supersedes the atheist and skeptic mode. For the first time I now see that people are coming towards the Bible in a semi-scholastic, sophomoric way. They basically lean on their own knowledge.

To start with (humor me) a basic guide to logic – a=b. If (a) is true then (b) is true. If insects share some common characteristic than we can easily put them in this category. Therefore, insects=mosquitoes. There are thousands of permutations of the model including fallacies with arrows, unequal signs and so forth.

Similarly, there are musicians who have little bit of knowledge and try to impress others with their “unparallel” view of music and say they mastered diatonic scale. Well all scales are based on the C scale and all they’re saying is that they found a different note to start with. Yes there are minor keys but still based on the c major scale. That’s, do(I) re(2) mi(3) fa(4) so(5) la(6) ti(7) – do (repeat 1 in a higher pitch); minor: do(1) re(2) me -flat note one behind (3) fa (4) so (5) le - flat note (6) te - flat note (7)- do. Rock is based on I, IV, V= do ©, fa (F), and so (G)- though keys can vary, you can play “Twist and Shout,” “ I Love Rock n’ Roll,” “La Bamba” etc., all are, playable with these three chords. With a little variation you can Play Little Red Corvette, Why don’t we do it in the Road (adding 11 note). If you want to go for a touch of the esoteric : do©, Flat le (Am), fa (F) so (G) which is I-6-4-5 = Run Around Sue, Beyond the Sea, Goodnight Sweet Heart, I Will, You Take a Piece Of Me (minus bridge).

Why am I going through this pain? To show you everything under the stars has its own purpose and system except the Bible. In the Bible, 1=3 (a logical contradiction) in terms of God and the Trinity.... The Bible has God’s Mind at play. It doesn’t fit the earthly scheme of things. Even in terms of common sense, a Virgin Birth, a Crucifixion and then a Resurrection of the Son of God for our Salvation and the conquering of death (only Christian dogma); the manifestation of the Holy Spirit. It’s beyond any thought process known to man, yet I believe. I know in my heart it is the Truth and I have the freedom to choose it or not. Know I have nothing against – in fact encourage – people finding out more. But something is breaking down from the questions of the past. Internet teens will be saying where is the Atom Bomb mentioned in the Bible? With genetic science growing soon you will probably be able to give our kids special features (like looking like me, kidding). What will our response be then? Also, we are mired in the 60’s boom generations; there will be opportunities to get yourself killed before your time (voluntarily or not). And what’s more, science has developed a memory pill – it could have been on the market except it causes PSTD (post traumatic disorder).

Most importantly, where do we stand morally? Do we want Worthy to be a quiz show? I know, this started with a sophomore-type that knows some logic terms (but probably never read Socrates or Aristotle) making a cool stance on homosexuality. Well, you know, I would like as many people saved as possible, I had two seminarian friends who were homosexual friends but died of aids; I hope Christ accepts them. He will not accept them or anyone that has, “I have all knowing proud approach towards God or the Bible.” In short morally, if anything we went downhill. And God is unchangeable. By the Bible we know enough about Salvation but we don’t know or think like God. Yet I find more and more, the new trend is not following God morally but for educational purposes and to make a statements about how “bright” you think you are. What a waste.

Oak

This is the main reason that I have no problems with others calling me a fundamental Christian...For me, it's a complement. My folks taught me well and I listened attentively...One of the first things I remember hearing is, "if something works , don't change it. " Now, I don't mind change ...not one bit...But if the rest of life has to suffer at its expense, what good is it. Also, much of the basics of what was designed in earlier times was proved to work quite well for mankind and much of what has changed in those areas hasn't proved to work for any length of time. God's plan works ! And since we already know that "we can TEST the God of the Bible," what more is there to say...TEST God, when in doubt. I was once told that you can find basically everything you want to know about life in the entirety of the Bible...If we talk about the basics, I have to agree with that premise..Of course, we can't find the problems to our computers in the Bible but you know what, the binary number systems can be tested for its crucible...And isn't it odd that with all the brain and information storage we have in a computer, all we have to do is pull the plug and it's rendered useless....Did you know that with all that knowledge no man has ever been able to disprove God's existence nor have they been able to render God's gifts and help useless...

I tested the God of the Bible many decades ago, and coming from someone who once didn't believe, I can assure you that God has revealed and shown himself to me more than I needed to be convinced....I too am somewhat of a miracle on earth as so many Chritsians can acclaim, so if that's not enough for the non-christians to be able to accept God's Glory and Gifts, let them be damned....

[Botz]

There used to be more freedom of discussion and less dictatorial authority. As you said 1=3. Though all agree, should anyone wish to discuss, the discussion is ended. As I pointed out in another post brother in many parts of the world means something different than it does in the English language. It means cousin, brother-in-law and brother. The English language is not absolute. neither is any language there are so many difficulties in the translation of a word or meaning in a paragraph or book. We miss out a great deal by not being open to ideas. The Bible stands firm in its meaning - there is no question but after so many translations even going back to the original - look in our time the meaning of the words 'gay' and 'cool' generations from now would question and argue over the meaning of a phrase just by those 2 words.

Discussion is good if it offends the way one thinks of a topic look that person should look away and let the rest discuss.

There is learning in discussion as long as there is no hostility.

I think you are right Lamb...but I think the boards also go through phases, as people come and go. There is often so much fear that people will be affected by arguments and discussions that sometimes the desire to protect others becomes a bit of a touchstone....I really believe that good strong argument is a healthy sign, and those that don't want to get involved in things that upset them have the liberty to refrain from entering into such debates...for example, I seldom get involved in debate on the Rapture as I just find it goes round in circles, and I don't get excited about the various biblical theories...whereas for others it seems to be food and drink.

Attitude is something that greatly helps a thread...if people are kind with one another, even when strongly opposed to things, then there is a mutual atmosphere of respect. Arrogance, pride, one-up-man-ship and the ability to shoulder offence at the smallest thing can make it into a sort of competition, and it ain't pretty....