Have the gifts of the Holy Spirit ceased?

[Botz]

Born2BFree

No one can dispute the presence of spiritual Gifts in the church today

I think you will find they 'can' and 'do'.

Salvation is a Gift I most certainly hope has not disappeared

That is true..

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

...but in the context of this discussion it is not a gift of the Holy Spirit...the Holy Spirit does not distribute 'salvation'...we are talking about the gifts to empower and help the 'Church' in her mission...and about the baptism in the Holy Spirit.

[johnP]

Botz.

2.It seems that to some degree those who have been baptised in the Holy Spirit can move in all the gifts of the Holy Spirit at various times...and I am not saying by this that they have the all the gifts...rather they have the Spirit who gifts us at given situations.

Elijah was a man just like us.

johnp.

[Botz]

Botz.

QUOTE 

2.It seems that to some degree those who have been baptised in the Holy Spirit can move in all the gifts of the Holy Spirit at various times...and I am not saying by this that they have the all the gifts...rather they have the Spirit who gifts us at given situations.

Elijah was a man just like us.

johnp.

Not quite sure I follow you John...although I am aware of the strength of prayer through righteous Believers..which leads to an interesting comparison between the unction of the Holy Ghost acting on behalf of prayer...and the power of the Holy Spirit administered through the gifts.

[Arthur Durnan]

Perhaps uit will assist one in one's quest re the current availability of spiritual gifts to understand most explicitly that there is NO SUCH THING ANYWHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT re an "unknown" tongue or language. All biblical "tongues" or languages are KNOWN, EARTHLY, NATIONAL DIALECTS as outlined quite clearly in the classic Acts Chapter 2 passage where all the expressed languages are NAMED in Verses 8-11. All of which nicely does away with charismatic "heavenly gibberish" or "heavenly mumbo-jumbo."

Thank You, Jesus!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[larryt]

Perhaps uit will assist one in one's quest re the current availability of spiritual gifts to understand most explicitly that there is NO SUCH THING ANYWHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT re an "unknown" tongue or language. All biblical "tongues" or languages are KNOWN, EARTHLY, NATIONAL DIALECTS as outlined quite clearly in the classic Acts Chapter 2 passage where all the expressed languages are NAMED in Verses 8-11. All of which nicely does away with charismatic "heavenly gibberish" or "heavenly mumbo-jumbo."

Thank You, Jesus!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

Hi Arthur,

Here are three verses that some refer to in regard to the question you asked. I agree that "unknown" is not in the original.

1Co 13:1

[johnP]

Hello Botz.

Not quite sure I follow you John

4. Sovereign act of G-d...some people seem to move effortlessly in the supernatural...

You was talking about how some people seemed to be. Elijah did some amazing things, struck the water to walk across dry, brought fire down from the sky etc. He prayed and it happened. Yet the bible does say he was a man just like us therefore we can do what he did if it's in the will of God.

When he was about to catch the bus to Heaven Elisha ask for a double portion of the Spirit, you might not read it the same as I do, which seems to me a laying on of hands of a sort.

2KI 2:9 When they had crossed, Elijah said to Elisha, "Tell me, what can I do for you before I am taken from you?"

"Let me inherit a double portion of your spirit," Elisha replied.

2KI 2:10 "You have asked a difficult thing," Elijah said, "yet if you see me when I am taken from you, it will be yours--otherwise not."

That's all.

johnp.

[Botz]

Thanks for clarification John.

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Arthur Durnan Posted: Oct 21 2004, 05:39 PM

Perhaps uit will assist one in one's quest re the current availability of spiritual gifts to understand most explicitly that there is NO SUCH THING ANYWHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT re an "unknown" tongue or language. All biblical "tongues" or languages are KNOWN, EARTHLY, NATIONAL DIALECTS as outlined quite clearly in the classic Acts Chapter 2 passage where all the expressed languages are NAMED in Verses 8-11. All of which nicely does away with charismatic "heavenly gibberish" or "heavenly mumbo-jumbo."

Hi Arthur.

I guess you are well versed in some of the other specific spiritual gifts such as prophesy,healing,words of knowledge etc as you seem to have such a good handle on how the Holy Ghost operates...I would be very interested to hear some accounts of how you have seen and used some of the gifts...maybe it will help me understand a little better your argument on Languages/Tongues.

I thought your comment was timely larryt.

[Born2BFree]

Born2BFree

No one can dispute the presence of spiritual Gifts in the church today

I think you will find they 'can' and 'do'.

Salvation is a Gift I most certainly hope has not disappeared

That is true..

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

...but in the context of this discussion it is not a gift of the Holy Spirit...the Holy Spirit does not distribute 'salvation'...we are talking about the gifts to empower and help the 'Church' in her mission...and about the baptism in the Holy Spirit.

OH! YOU mean MONEY! Yes! MONEY IS A REAL EMPOWERING GIFT...

Otherwise... one might consider the following...

Peace

Love

Joy

Temperance

Meekness (now THAT's a REAL tough gift to hold)

Patience

Brotherly Love

Long Suffering

Or...and...

Prophesy

Healing

Miracles

Wisdom

Knowledge

Judgement (discernment)

I wouldn't include scholarship, or IQ scores or possession of college degrees in the spiritual gifts, though these may be considered 'gifts' and/or convenient acquisitions.

It is my belief that The Gift of the Holy Spirit is the driving base for all expressions of gifts labled 'spiritual'...

Of course, without the gift of Love, everything else is nothing but vain posturing.

God Bless y'all.

[Born2BFree]

Ah! I forgot to include gentleness. Yes. THAT is a very important gift too, isn't it?

I am so glad to have made the acquaintance of such fine examples of spiritual gifts, not the least of which is gentleness. God Bless you gentlemen in your search for the abundant life beyond the words.

[larryt]

Hi Born2BFree,

I wouldn't include scholarship, or IQ scores or possession of college degrees in the spiritual gifts, though these may be considered 'gifts' and/or convenient acquisitions.

It is my belief that The Gift of the Holy Spirit is the driving base for all expressions of gifts labled 'spiritual'...

By your statement here I take it that everybody, christian or not, is a beneficiary of the "gifts of the Holy Spirit."

And how do I get a college degree in the spiritual gifts? Is there a college/university that is teaching these? Can I buy them for money, and how much does it cost?

LT