Denominations?

[OneLight]

The point, which you keep ignoring, is that the church Jesus started was not the Roman Catholic Church, but His body of believers that had not real name. It was not until later that congregations started having names. You want to step back in time, but refuse to step all the way back. Jesus came to the Jewish people, not the Gentiles. You seem to forget that.

Did the apostles all belong to a single Church? If so, which Church was it? Have you read any of the history of the early Church?

The Apostles did not belong to any church. They taught in synagogues. They also taught in the streets and from house to house. They followed Jesus without a name. What they believed was call "The Way" in Acts. They were given a name of "Christians", which was supposed to be demeaning.

[Openly Curious]

name='Smalcald' timestamp='1314128303' post='1711414'

"who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."

2 Corinthians 3:6 - Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the Spirit: for the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life.

God has made us "able" ministers of the new testament-------(2 Cor. 2:12-3:6)

2 Corinthians 3:7-7:4

We've Been Given ....

A ministry of "glory"------(2 Cor. 3:18)

An "honest" and "tried" ministry-----(2 Cor. 4: 1-18)

A "confident" ministry-------(2 Cor. 5:1-1o)

A "reconciling" ministry----------(2 Cor. 5:11-21)

A "suffering" ministry--------(2 Cor. 6:1-13)

"Believers" are the "temple of God"---------(2 Cor. 6:14-7:4)

*What teachings does the minister of your temple teach?

*What do people see and hear from your temple?

* Do they see Christ and Christ alone?

*Do they hear Christ and Christ alone?

2 Corinthians 3:2-3 - Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: "forasmuch as ye are" manifestly declared to be" the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshly tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:

[UncleAbee]

The point, which you keep ignoring, is that the church Jesus started was not the Roman Catholic Church, but His body of believers that had not real name. It was not until later that congregations started having names. You want to step back in time, but refuse to step all the way back. Jesus came to the Jewish people, not the Gentiles. You seem to forget that.

Did the apostles all belong to a single Church? If so, which Church was it? Have you read any of the history of the early Church?

The Apostles did not belong to any church. They taught in synagogues. They also taught in the streets and from house to house. They followed Jesus without a name. What they believed was call "The Way" in Acts. They were given a name of "Christians", which was supposed to be demeaning.

They all belonged to the Church built by Jesus.

Matthew 16

17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

1 Timothy 3

15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth

Matthew 18

17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Acts 15

22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas.

Jesus only started one church. The word "my" in Matt 16:18 implies one. Peter preached the 1st gospel sermon in Acts ch 2. In doing this he opened the doors to the church. The gospel message of salvation had never been preached before. The church is all the believers in Christ (1 Cor 12:12). Jesus called for unity of all his followers in John 17:21. Denominations began when the believers began defying John 17:21 and held their own doctrinal beliefs seperating themselves from other Christians. The 1st historically recorded denomination is the Roman Catholic Church. Other denominations splintered from it (Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, etc.)

Why are denominations wrong?

1 - Christ didn't start any of them. Their names are not given by Christ. Jesus has promised to uproot all things not started by Him (Matt 15:13).

2 - They are started out of confusion. God is not the author of confusion (1 Cor 14:33). The church of England began because the King wanted to divorce his wife and started his own church. Protestant churches began because the RC church dominated and abused it's followers through false doctrinal practices. Black denominational (AMEZ, AME, CME) churches began because white christians would not treat black christians equally. Jesus church began because He loved his followers enough to die for them on the cross. Jesus church began out of love not out of doctrinal differences or because of mistreatment by the leadership.

3 - They defy the unity Jesus called for of all believers in John 17:21. The different denominations are not one in each other as Christ is one in God.

4 - They are defined by their traditions violating what Jesus said in Mark 7:9-13. The church is defined by Christ and not by traditions.

I could go on and on. Denominations are the opposite of the unity taught by scriptures. We all need to be seeking to be in Christ's church alone.

Edited August 26, 2011 by UncleAbee

[UncleAbee]

The point, which you keep ignoring, is that the church Jesus started was not the Roman Catholic Church, but His body of believers that had not real name. It was not until later that congregations started having names. You want to step back in time, but refuse to step all the way back. Jesus came to the Jewish people, not the Gentiles. You seem to forget that.

Did the apostles all belong to a single Church? If so, which Church was it? Have you read any of the history of the early Church?

The Apostles did not belong to any church. They taught in synagogues. They also taught in the streets and from house to house. They followed Jesus without a name. What they believed was call "The Way" in Acts. They were given a name of "Christians", which was supposed to be demeaning.

They all belonged to the Church built by Jesus.

Matthew 16

17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

1 Timothy 3

15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth

Matthew 18

17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Acts 15

22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas.

I agree. The apostles belonged to Christ's church (Rom 16:16).

A single body with common leaders unified in Truth. Right?

I edited my comment so you might want to go back and read it. The church is a single body with one leader. This leader is Christ and Him alone. Our job is to obey what He said do. That's all. No man has any authority in the church.

[nChrist]

Peter was an Apostle to the Circumcision (The Jews), and he taught the Gospel of the Kingdom because he knew nothing else. The Jews rejected their Messiah and King, so the promised earthly Kingdom is still in the future. The Apostle Paul was the Apostle to the Uncircumcision (The Gentiles - that's us), and Jesus Christ Himself revealed the greatest mystery of the Bible to Paul - a mystery not known to men of other ages - a mystery also not known by the other Apostles. Most obviously there were great differences between the Apostle Paul and the other Apostles, and this remained so until he taught them. The MYSTERY was and is the Church Which is the Body Of Christ. The Apostle Paul didn't preach the Gospel of the Kingdom because he knew the Kingdom of Christ was still future. Instead, the Apostle Paul preached the Gospel of the Grace of God - the Truth after the Cross and the Truth still for today. The Millennial Reign of Christ will most certainly be fulfilled after the end of the Tribulation Period. Most Jews still reject their True King and Messiah, but the day will come when they accept Him.

Isaiah 2:1-5 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. 2 And it shall come to pass in the latter days, that the mountain of Jehovah's house shall be established on the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3 And many peoples shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of Jehovah from Jerusalem. 4 And he will judge between the nations, and will decide concerning many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning-hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. 5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of Jehovah.

Isaiah 9:2-7 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwelt in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined. 3 Thou hast multiplied the nation, thou hast increased their joy: they joy before thee according to the joy in harvest, as men rejoice when they divide the spoil. 4 For the yoke of his burden, and the staff of his shoulder, the rod of his oppressor, thou hast broken as in the day of Midian. 5 For all the armor of the armed man in the tumult, and the garments rolled in blood, shall be for burning, for fuel of fire. 6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and of peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of Jehovah of hosts will perform this.

Micah 4:1-3 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it. 2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

The days in which we currently live are governed by the Gospel of the Grace of God, and God's children ARE the Church Which is The Body of Christ. Most of Israel has been blinded to the Truth and will remain so until Christ reveals Himself to them at His Second Coming. As Christians, we're not waiting for a promised earthly kingdom because we already belong to an existing Heavenly Kingdom. Jesus Christ is already our Lord and King, and we are MEMBERS of HIS BODY - The Church Which Is The Body Of Christ. Jesus Christ is and always has been the Head of this Church not made with human hands.

Romans 12:5 KJV So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

Galatians 6:10 KJV As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

Ephesians 5:18-21 KJV And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; 19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; 20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; 21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

Colossians 3:15-17 KJV And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. 16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. 17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

If one is a real Christian, there is no waiting for the most precious Truth of this life. Beautiful things happen at the moment of Salvation and Promises are given for Eternity.

Ephesians 2:4-10 KJV But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

[Openly Curious]

Hebrews 12:22-24--But ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and the church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. Amen

We have come up under the covering of mount Zion the city of the living God the heavenly Jerusalem and to an innummerable company of angels and I'd have to say, I'm in good company. We are the general assembly the church of the firstborn who have gathered together in the city of God made possible by Christ's shed blood and our confession of faith according to Romans 10:9-10 causing our names to be written in heaven and where God is Judge of all. Jesus was our mediator who stood between us and the wrath of God as Christ sacrificed his own body to appease the wrath of God and it was the only thing that did satisfy his wrath.

We have come, Under the covering of mount Zion the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels

And are, The General Assembly and Church of the Firstborn

I wonder how many denominations have been splintered from the church of the firstborn?

By faith Abraham looked for a city whose builder and maker is God

[OneLight]

The point, which you keep ignoring, is that the church Jesus started was not the Roman Catholic Church, but His body of believers that had not real name. It was not until later that congregations started having names. You want to step back in time, but refuse to step all the way back. Jesus came to the Jewish people, not the Gentiles. You seem to forget that.

Did the apostles all belong to a single Church? If so, which Church was it? Have you read any of the history of the early Church?

The Apostles did not belong to any church. They taught in synagogues. They also taught in the streets and from house to house. They followed Jesus without a name. What they believed was call "The Way" in Acts. They were given a name of "Christians", which was supposed to be demeaning.

They all belonged to the Church built by Jesus.

Then you agree?

[eandkandf]

First i didn't mean for this to start to look like it's going to be a debate..

I was trying to not just find out about denominations but also to find out how it is that their are different Bibles..

For example..

Catholics have their bible..

Muslims have the Koran..

Mormons Book of Mormons etc etc...

But as I saw the replies IMO it seems like it was getting all over the place and not really helping for

readers and myself that is going over our heads.

So I did a search online and found this..

My link

This is one I understand and agree with..now what is your take on this?

Very sorry again for where it seems to have been leading.

I don't know they post scripture on the fact that there are false doctrines, BUT when they post their own doctrine they post no scripture at all to back it up.....and if anybody can show me some scripture that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are no longer offered to prove that claim I'd love to see it....no opinion just scripture.

[OneLight]

The point, which you keep ignoring, is that the church Jesus started was not the Roman Catholic Church, but His body of believers that had not real name. It was not until later that congregations started having names. You want to step back in time, but refuse to step all the way back. Jesus came to the Jewish people, not the Gentiles. You seem to forget that.

Did the apostles all belong to a single Church? If so, which Church was it? Have you read any of the history of the early Church?

The Apostles did not belong to any church. They taught in synagogues. They also taught in the streets and from house to house. They followed Jesus without a name. What they believed was call "The Way" in Acts. They were given a name of "Christians", which was supposed to be demeaning.

They all belonged to the Church built by Jesus.

Then you agree?

I agree that the apostles all belonged to the same Church. There was only one Church built by Jesus and there is still only one. Not all who follow Jesus are in full communion with his Church.

The church I speak of is His body of believers, not a denomination that you speak of. I agree that not all who are called to Him walk right in His ways. You have replaced Christ with the Roman Catholic Church, claiming they are one in the same, always comparing peoples beliefs to the Roman Catholic Church doctrine, and not Christ. You have built upon your alter an idol. It is very disheartening to see that after so many people have pointed this out that you are still blind and deaf to their words.

Why is it that Jesus tells us He will send us a helper, the Holy Spirit, yet you never point to Him, but to the RCC?

John 14:26

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

John 15:26

But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.

John 16:7

Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.

Jesus never said He would send us a pope or a church. That is because a pope is a man made authority and the church always has been His body of believers. It was not until after the fall of Jerusalem that Rome started to become the focal point, since Rome was responsible for the fall.

Brother, you can continue to follow the RCC and I will continue to follow how His Spirit leads me. When we stand before Him, we will know the full truth and not before.

[nChrist]

Peter was an Apostle to the Circumcision (The Jews), and he taught the Gospel of the Kingdom because he knew nothing else.

That opinion is not biblical:

Acts 15

6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

Wrong! - It's completely Biblical. The Twelve were Apostles to the Jews (Circumcision). The Apostle Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles (Uncircumcision). This is basic Bible facts. Peter knew nothing about the Church Which is the Body of Christ until Paul taught him.