JohnD Posted October 20, 2011 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 909 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,657 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,839 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted October 20, 2011 The gist of my replies to the OP way back on page one is the reason there are denominations is mere mortal men keep trying to reinvent the wheel. This is completely unnecessary. The Bible has given us enough instruction to set up the one unified kingdom. Even though the natural born leaders of the New Testament / New Covenant Church (the Jews) abdicated, had the Gentile leaders not added so much opinion or accepted the influence of Pagan Constantine and Mom, there would not be so much division today. And while I am a believer in the mission of returning the Church to its Hebrew roots... I am not unaware of the enormity of such a daunting task. For one thing, how many Christians are willing to forgo Sunday worship and return to Sabbath worship? I can hear the fists clinching now... Constantine was a sun worshiper, so it stands to reason that his adder hatchling would impose SUNday as the day of worshiping the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botz Posted October 21, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 21, 2011 Again we are swinging back to Catholic inspired indoctrination here through the barely veiled insinuation that those who don't accept the authority of the RCC are rejecting Jesus Chesterton..."Scripture is clear. Jesus told us that he sent the apostles as God sent him. Jesus told us that if we reject those he sent we are rejecting him. They are men but they have the authority granted to them by Christ. They have the authority to bind and loose. Listening to those sent by Jesus IS listening to him. Rejecting those sent by Jesus IS rejecting him....Is this what you are getting at Chesterton, or am I mistaken? Botz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted October 21, 2011 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,420 Content Per Day: 8.00 Reputation: 21,577 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Again we are swinging back to Catholic inspired indoctrination here through the barely veiled insinuation that those who don't accept the authority of the RCC are rejecting Jesus Chesterton..."Scripture is clear. Jesus told us that he sent the apostles as God sent him. Jesus told us that if we reject those he sent we are rejecting him. They are men but they have the authority granted to them by Christ. They have the authority to bind and loose. Listening to those sent by Jesus IS listening to him. Rejecting those sent by Jesus IS rejecting him....Is this what you are getting at Chesterton, or am I mistaken? Botz My point is that it is clear that Jesus started a Church, gave it leaders, gave these leaders authority, and told the rest of us to listen to them. But even if you concede these points you still might conclude that the Catholic Church is not the true representative of this authority. That's what we have painfully tried to tell you Chesterton! Hold to Christ alone in His Word alone and filter it through The Holy Spirit alone.... It is ok to let go of this world in order to gain the one promised... As each second passes all that was in that second is out of reach to all of us here under time! That means that the buildings, the statues, the etc. remain and the spiritual value is plucked up by Him Who cannot be deceived. Therefore I will imitate Him and leave the pretty buildings, statues, love of this world, etc. and keep the ordained order found only in His Word as my Way, Truth and Life.... no matter what men in finery say to me! Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted October 21, 2011 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,420 Content Per Day: 8.00 Reputation: 21,577 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Again we are swinging back to Catholic inspired indoctrination here through the barely veiled insinuation that those who don't accept the authority of the RCC are rejecting Jesus Chesterton..."Scripture is clear. Jesus told us that he sent the apostles as God sent him. Jesus told us that if we reject those he sent we are rejecting him. They are men but they have the authority granted to them by Christ. They have the authority to bind and loose. Listening to those sent by Jesus IS listening to him. Rejecting those sent by Jesus IS rejecting him....Is this what you are getting at Chesterton, or am I mistaken? Botz My point is that it is clear that Jesus started a Church, gave it leaders, gave these leaders authority, and told the rest of us to listen to them. But even if you concede these points you still might conclude that the Catholic Church is not the true representative of this authority. That's what we have painfully tried to tell you Chesterton! Hold to Christ alone in His Word alone and filter it through The Holy Spirit alone.... It is ok to let go of this world in order to gain the one promised... As each second passes all that was in that second is out of reach to all of us here under time! That means that the buildings, the statues, the etc. remain and the spiritual value is plucked up by Him Who cannot be deceived. Therefore I will imitate Him and leave the pretty buildings, statues, love of this world, etc. and keep the ordained order found only in His Word as my Way, Truth and Life.... no matter what men in finery say to me! Love, Steven I'm not following you. Do you agree that if we reject those sent by Jesus we are rejecting him? I am saying the only way we know if they are sent by Jesus if they align completely with the His Word! Each individual has the ability to hold the Spirit of God within them by the acceptance of Jesus The Christ and learn directly from Him The Truth. The divergence of the rcc clearly is seen opposed to those teachings by those children who have done such and now am speaking with you... Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
churchmouse2 Posted October 21, 2011 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 22 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/01/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted October 21, 2011 Again we are swinging back to Catholic inspired indoctrination here through the barely veiled insinuation that those who don't accept the authority of the RCC are rejecting Jesus Chesterton..."Scripture is clear. Jesus told us that he sent the apostles as God sent him. Jesus told us that if we reject those he sent we are rejecting him. They are men but they have the authority granted to them by Christ. They have the authority to bind and loose. Listening to those sent by Jesus IS listening to him. Rejecting those sent by Jesus IS rejecting him....Is this what you are getting at Chesterton, or am I mistaken? Botz My point is that it is clear that Jesus started a Church, gave it leaders, gave these leaders authority, and told the rest of us to listen to them. But even if you concede these points you still might conclude that the Catholic Church is not the true representative of this authority. That's what we have painfully tried to tell you Chesterton! Hold to Christ alone in His Word alone and filter it through The Holy Spirit alone.... It is ok to let go of this world in order to gain the one promised... As each second passes all that was in that second is out of reach to all of us here under time! That means that the buildings, the statues, the etc. remain and the spiritual value is plucked up by Him Who cannot be deceived. Therefore I will imitate Him and leave the pretty buildings, statues, love of this world, etc. and keep the ordained order found only in His Word as my Way, Truth and Life.... no matter what men in finery say to me! Love, Steven I'm not following you. Do you agree that if we reject those sent by Jesus we are rejecting him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldEnglishSheepdog Posted October 21, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 844 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 118 Days Won: 11 Joined: 12/23/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted October 21, 2011 You're the one bringing up Catholic dogma. Nice try. My point was that 1 Corinthians undeniably states that we're not supposed to boast in human leaders like Peter, that Apostles are nothing more than fellow workers and that the only foundation of the church is Jesus, and it is to that which you're pushing back. Your thin veil is so thin it's transparent. Scripture is clear. Yes, it is, and the scripture we just looked at was 1 Corinthians which clearly says that boasting in human leaders is worldly and causes quarreling (disunity), doesn't it chesterton? And it says that Christ is the only foundation, doesn't it chesterton? And it says that people, including the Apostles like Peter, are nothing but are simply co-workers and not to boast in leaders such as Peter, doesn't it chesterton? Jesus told us that he sent the apostles as God sent him. Jesus told us that if we reject those he sent we are rejecting him. Um, chesterton, does Galatians 1, or does it not, state that if even the apostles preach a different gospel they are damned? Deal with the passages we're looking at instead of fleeing to assumptions you're making about verses that we are not currently examining. They are men but they have the authority granted to them by Christ. Chesterton, we're looking at 1 Corinthians and in 1 Corinthians 3 does it or does it not say that the apostles are nothing but co-workers, there is no foundation other than Christ and that we should not deceive ourselves ann boast in human leaders as though they were something? They have the authority to bind and loose. You're running away from the passages in question. We've seen time and time again how you're misinterpreting the passages you're trying to flee to, but the passages we're looking at right now are in 1 Corinthians. Can something be both true and false at the same time? If not, then let's see what scripture says here instead of finding a contradicting interpretation elsewhere and fleeing to that. If scripture is true (and we both agree that it is), then if you were right you'll be able to prove your point here just as well as anywhere else you'd flee to, so show me how this passage doesn't state what we've seen it states which completely contradicts your interpretation. Listening to those sent by Jesus IS listening to him. Rejecting those sent by Jesus IS rejecting him. So you're saying scripture is wrong, since we already saw from Galatians contradicts you? "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ" (Galatians 1:10). So you see, this passage was written and accepted by the Apostles long before your misinterpretation, so in order to follow the teaching of those who Jesus taught we have to acknowledge that you're wrong - so I'm going to have to go with what the Apostles actually taught and not what you're now saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldEnglishSheepdog Posted October 21, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 844 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 118 Days Won: 11 Joined: 12/23/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted October 21, 2011 Um, chesterton, does Galatians 1, or does it not, state that if even the apostles preach a different gospel they are damned? Different than what? Your opinion? What do you mean, ‘different from what’? From the gospel in scripture, of course. So if someone rejects the word of God on salvation (the good news or ‘gospel’ of salvation) like that we clearly see God stated “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast” (Ephesians 2:8-9), then they are eternally damned, according to the Apostles, even if it is a supposed Apostle who’s contradicting the assertion. “For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ” (2 Cor. 11:13). So, can we please return to the topic from which you’re trying to divert attention? I’ll ask for the second time now, what is the answer to the questions I asked about the actual passage in question, namely, we're looking at 1 Corinthians and in 1 Corinthians 3 does it or does it not say that the apostles are nothing but co-workers, there is no foundation other than Christ and that we should not deceive ourselves and boast in human leaders as though they were something? Here's how we know the Truth: 1 John 4:6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood. 1 Timothy 3 15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. So let’s deal with the passages in question in 1 Corinthians and see if it informs the interpretation of these passages, since something can’t be both true and false at the same time. So let's see what scripture says here in 1 Corinthians instead of finding a contradicting interpretation elsewhere and fleeing to that. If scripture is true (and we both agree that it is), then if you were right you'll be able to prove your point here just as well as anywhere else you'd flee to, so show me how this passage doesn't state what we've seen it states which completely contradicts your interpretation. We're looking at 1 Corinthians and in 1 Corinthians 3 does it or does it not say that the apostles are nothing but co-workers, there is no foundation other than Christ and that we should not deceive ourselves and boast in human leaders as though they were something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol-Scotty Posted October 21, 2011 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 2 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/21/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted October 21, 2011 All the early Christians belonged to a single Church. Guess which one it was!! They called themselves "Followers of the Way." They were called Catholics (universal) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol-Scotty Posted October 21, 2011 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 2 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/21/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted October 21, 2011 Denominations formed because of conflicting views of theology. I, particularly, am a Methodist. But if you ask me I would just say Christian. The Bible explains it better than me 1 Corinthians 12:4-7 4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. I spent most of my life as a Methodist before my conversion. Although the Church was Methodist, we didn't necessarily have much interest or understanding of the national denomination. It was really just a small, rural bible based Church that happened to have been started by Methodists. It was a great place to spend my teen and early adult years! I don't think Paul is advocating denominations in this passage. In fact, he warns against following different leaders and speaks of THE church as being the pillar and foundation of Truth. I think he is speaking of the different functions within the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted October 21, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 21, 2011 All the early Christians belonged to a single Church. Guess which one it was!! They called themselves "Followers of the Way." They were called Catholics (universal) Scripture uses the word Way as those who followed Christ and the teachings of the Apostles. Man denoted the term Catholic for the Way. Welcome to Worthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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