Bible Prophecy and The mark of The Beast

[other one]

Bible, I don't disagree that we can use our free will to leave the hand of God. Fear is one of the ways that can happen, but what I said was that you can't be tricked into taking the mark. The Holy Spirit will not let that happen. When it comes time for the decision of worshiping the beast or not, you if you are truly saved "will" know what you are doing. To say otherwise would be admitting that Satan is stronger than God himself, or that God Himself would abandon a christian..... and I refuse to believe that.

But I do agree that a born again christian can choose to worship the antichrist and even take his mark..... but not by trickery. I can tell you from personal experience from my days before walking with the Lord on a daily basis, that no human can withstand the devil, nor out smart him on ones own. The only way anyone will be able to get past the next few years will be with the protection of the Holy Spirit. If you have the Spirit indwelling you, the devil has no spiritual power whatsoever, and without the Holy Spirit you have no hope whatsoever.

I do also agree that we need to be watching and know what's going on, but I do not think we have any idea whatsoever of what the actual mark may be and to make guesses at this point in time can cause people to do things and even not do things that would be in their best interests to do or not to do so.

Example would be if the government made it manditory to have an ID chip to recieve medical care for Veterains, and this chip is not the mark of the beast and the beast is not even here yet, all this talk about chips being the mark might actually keep good people from getting affordable medical care. It could even be used for medicare or social security payments. Promoting things like the chip "is" the mark of the beast could cause a lot of hardship for a lot of people and be totally un necessary.

[Bible2]

other one said:

...you can't be tricked into taking the mark.

True Christians could be tricked, in the sense of deceived, into taking the mark, for true Christians can be deceived. For in Matthew 24:24, Jesus doesn't say "if it were possible" for true Christians to be deceived, in the sense of it not being possible. Instead, in the original Greek all Jesus says is "if possible", meaning that false Christs and false prophets will perform great miracles by the power of Satan (cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:9) as part of Satan's intention of deceiving as many true Christians as possible. Jesus nowhere says that it's not possible for any true Christians to be deceived. Instead, Jesus had started out in Matthew 24 by specifically warning true Christians to "Take heed that no man deceive you" (Matthew 24:4), meaning that it's possible for true Christians to be deceived, if they don't take heed to Jesus' warning regarding great-miracle-working false Christs and false prophets who will appear in the future (Matthew 24:4-5,23-25, Mark 13:5-6,21-23, Luke 21:8, Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20).

True Christians can also be deceived in other ways (1 John 3:7, 1 Corinthians 6:9, 1 Corinthians 15:33, Galatians 6:7, Ephesians 5:6, 2 Thessalonians 2:3). Paul warns true Christians that "The Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils" (1 Timothy 4:1); the time will come when some "shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables" (2 Timothy 4:4). For it's possible for true Christians to commit apostasy, to the ultimate loss of his salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6, 2 Timothy 2:12).

other one said:

To say otherwise would be admitting that Satan is stronger than God himself, or that God Himself would abandon a christian...

The fact that true Christians can be deceived into committing apostasy doesn't mean either of those things, but means that the principle of the "deceivableness of unrighteousness" (2 Thessalonians 2:10) is applicable to true Christians. That is, one way that a true Christian could be deceived into committing apostasy would be if he finds a particular sin to be very pleasurable, so pleasurable that he continues in it over time until his heart becomes hardened by the deceitfulness of sin (Hebrews 3:13), to where his love for God grows cold because of the abundance of iniquity (Matthew 24:12), to where he quenches the Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:19), to where he sears his conscience as with a hot iron (1 Timothy 4:2), to where he begins to listen to the lies of demons and latch onto them to the point where he departs from the faith (1 Timothy 4:1). In a wrong desire to continue in their lusts without repentance, true Christians can reach the point where they become no longer able to endure the sound doctrine of the Bible, and they instead seek out and latch onto any man-made teachings which will help to support them in their lusts (2 Timothy 4:3-4).

So true Christians need to be living righteously now, they need to be obedient now if they want to spiritually endure unto the end during the coming tribulation of Matthew 24/Revelation chapters 6-18 (Matthew 24:13). For only obedient Christians will have their spiritual houses on the rock, so that they will endure the coming storm (Matthew 7:24-25). The spiritual houses of disobedient Christians we be on the sand, so that they will fall away during the storm (Matthew 7:26-27); they will become part of the falling away (2 Thessalonians 2:3), the departure from the faith (1 Timothy 4:1), which will occur during the coming tribulation (Matthew 24:9-13, cf. Isaiah 8:21-22).

[other one]

bible you are speaking of things here that people do who are not in tune with the Holy Spirit. It is important to be in tune with the Holy Spirit, but that Spirit will not let you be deceived...

[Jayyycuuup]

I know that people thought I was crazy when I posted this, but did anyone hear about the Obama Care Bill? You have to get microchiped! Sounds fun right??? Not! Sounds like prophecy to me. Still don't believe me? Well, lets wait and see, by then I pray to God that none of you have gotten microchiped i.e gotten the mark of the beast.

[soldier2]

I have a question:

Does a seal, mark or sign have the same general definition?

[Jayyycuuup]

1-you_Jacob,

there are many problems with your treatment of prophecy. These are all things people have thought were solid for the past century or so, but they miss many features, even if some of the details have the power to fascinate.

-me_As you claim it may not be possible of such a thing in the near future, but it is better to prepare yourself rather than lie in wait. Its a matter of knowing the signs and symbols that are unfolding in prophecy today. "What prophecy," you ask? That is not something for me to tell you but for you to seek out. I look at the bible and see prophecy unfolding before my very eyes, and all I'm doing is trying to warn people of what may come or is to come. You say that there are "problems" with my prophecy, but who are you to judge? Are you all knowing? Do you know for a fact that what I speak of is just a load of BS? No, you don't and neither do I, I am not saying this is a fact all I am saying is that be careful in what you are doing! Now, the things that people may have thought were prophecy could have been missguided but then again I know that there are times in our history when God has intervened. Now, the bible speaks of people who fortell false prophecy aswell....Mat 24:3-5,10-11, Deut 13:1-3, Jer 5:11-13 and those are just to name a few.

2you_.I would suggest a much harder look at how the NT uses the OT, how the 'great revolt' of AD 66 affected the NT, and how Acts 13s sermon, the one 'live' apostolic treatment of the whole OT as a conveyor of messianic hope, is fulfilled in the resurrection of Jesus Christ so that there can be justification from our sins. The reason this is so important is because the NT community is about getting this message of justification to all people; there is almost no indication that the NT community of believers had any of the volumnous absorbtion with "future prophecy," etc.

2-me_You suggest so many things but for me to do but have you taken a look at these things yourself? You briefly suggest such things that you yourself can hardly describe. Since I take prophecy from both the old testament and the new testament it should suggest that I understand that the whole bible is prophecy! So for you to judge such harshly upon, yet know nothing about me nor obviously read the entire leading post it shows pure ignorance.

3-you_And did I mention the absolutely unspiritual 'restoration of Israel' in 1948. Like, the place is just crawling with guys like apostle Paul who are phenomenal missionaries all over, huh? What other standard would we use but that? The end of the 'times of the Gentiles'--huh? Some of the greatest of missionaries to Gentiles were just getting underway (Richardson, Palau, etc.)

3-me_What are you a historian? 1948 was the establishment of Israel, so to say it is unreligious is in and of itself histerical because of how untrue this statement is! Yes SOME of the people of Israel were unreligious, but as a whole, they were religious. Israel (which then was not a country at the time, obviously) was under control by the Muslims and broke away from their hold, which started the war. In 1948 they established the freedom of religion. so if Israel were unreligious then why would they pass such a law?

"If only we weren't looking so hard for the wrong thing, we might not see it so much."

-That is a bold statement dont ya think? How about this, "If only we weren't looking so hard for the fault in others, we might realise the fault in ourselves and realise the truth of things"

[Bold Believer]

your friend Jacob said:

Let’s take this thing further shall we if you think that micro chipping is not going to happen...

While microchipping could very well happen, it won't be the "mark of the beast" (Revelation 13:16-17, Revelation 16:2). For Revelation 13:17b-18 shows that the mark will be only the name or the gematrial number of the name of the individual man who is the Antichrist (the beast). Also, the original Greek of Revelation 13:16 shows that the mark will be placed only "on", not inside, people's right hands or foreheads; and probably through scarification. For one of the definitions of "charagma" (the original Greek word used in Revelation 13:16 to refer to the mark) is a scratch or etching, and scarification is the scratching or etching of the skin to leave a permanent mark. The reason people could be given the mark is to serve as a public, visible indicator that they are loyal worshippers of the Antichrist (the beast) (Revelation 13:4,8).

In their devotion to the Antichrist as God (Revelation 13:8, 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36), some people could gladly be willing to have his name engraved on their right palms, just as lovers in the past were sometimes known to engrave the initials of their loved ones on their palms (cf. also Isaiah 49:16). Other people could gladly be willing to have the Antichrist's name engraved on their foreheads, thinking (mistakenly) that they're fulfilling the idea of Revelation 22:4, which refers to the future point in time when Jesus will have the name of God literally written on the foreheads of all obedient Christians (Revelation 3:12). The miracle-working False Prophet of the Antichrist, who will be the one to cause everyone to be marked with the mark of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:16-18), could even convince people that he (the False Prophet) is Jesus returned (but he won't say that he's Christ/God, for he and the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is Christ/God: 1 John 2:22).

Instead of having the name of the Antichrist engraved on their right hands or foreheads, some people will have the gematrial number of his name (Revelation 13:17-18) engraved on their right hands or foreheads. The gematrial number of the Antichrist's name is 666 (Revelation 13:17b-18). But because some people could refuse to have this number placed on their bodies, in order to make a mark of 666 acceptable to all people, it could be disguised to look like something else in those cases where people demand something other than "666". For example, it could be disguised in some cases to look like "777", "WWW", "VVV", "|| || ||", or "FFF". For the sixth letter of the ancient Hebrew alphabet (Vav) represents the number 6, but it looks like a "7", and it's transliterated into English either as a "W" or a "V". Also, two thin vertical lines "||" represent the number 6 on many UPC codes. And the letter "F" also has a numerical value of 6, in English gematria.

In a curious coincidence, "FFF" also stands for an extremely powerful type of nuclear bomb: Fission-Fusion-Fission. Could this be the type of bomb with which the ten kings of the Antichrist's empire will burn up the cities of the world near the end of the coming tribulation (Revelation 17:12,16-17a, Revelation 16:19, Revelation 19:2,11)?

Those assigned to have the mark placed on their foreheads (instead of on their right hands) could be those who will be an elite, illumined, cognoscenti class of Gnostic Luciferians who alone will have been given knowledge of the ultimate secrets of the Antichrist's Gnostic Luciferianism. The Antichrist will be both a Luciferian (Revelation 13:4) and a Gnostic, denying that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3), and forbidding marriage and the eating of meat (1 Timothy 4:1-3). The cream of his cognoscenti could be a faux 144,000, consisting of male virgins (as a counterfeit of Revelation 14:4) who have never eaten meat. If they receive the mark of the Antichrist's name (instead of the number of his name) on their foreheads, this will be as a counterfeit of YHWH's 144,000 in Revelation 14:1. But the Antichrist won't pretend that he's YHWH, just as he won't pretend that he's Christ. Instead, as a Gnostic he will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). And his Gnostic denial that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3) will disqualify him (under his mistaken Gnostic doctrine) from being the Christ.

1. Since antichrist is never mentioned in the context, adding the word is wrong.

2. Nero's name added up to 666. Early Christians called him 'The Beast'.

3. Trying to move this prophecy into our era is both futile and preposterous.

[Bold Believer]

I have a question:

Does a seal, mark or sign have the same general definition?

May I suggest looking that verse up in BlueLetterBible.org and then going to the 'C' block on the left. It will take you to a very simple word by word Greek explanation, including the word 'charagma' and you can see for yourself what the word means. You can also input the words seal, mark and sign and get Greek definitions.

[TrackerJack]

I've been thinking about this a lot since the SCOTUS ruling on Obamacare.

Where do we place our faith? In G-d, or the government?

This is the crux of the matter.

The majority of the people in this nation WORSHIP government. Uncle Sam will take care of our needs. And I dare say, if the Antichrist converts those programs to his own "economic plan" 95% of those people will accept it with a grateful heart.

In truth the spirit of the AC is already in government.

If you're already on some government plan (including employment), I urge you to find another way to live. Get off of welfare, and be ready to quit your job at a moments notice. If you have a backup plan in place, it will be easier to get out once the AC implements the mark.

[soldier2]

I have a question:

Does a seal, mark or sign have the same general definition?

May I suggest looking that verse up in BlueLetterBible.org and then going to the 'C' block on the left. It will take you to a very simple word by word Greek explanation, including the word 'charagma' and you can see for yourself what the word means. You can also input the words seal, mark and sign and get Greek definitions.

I checked and found these among other definitions. They are the ones most appropriate for the subject at hand.

Mark: a stamp, an imprinted mark

thing carved, sculpture, graven work

Sign: a distinguishing mark;

remembrance

miraculous sign

banner

Seal: seal, signet, signet-ring

to set a seal upon, mark with a seal, to seal

in order to prove, confirm, or attest a thing

to confirm authenticate, place beyond doubt

to prove one's testimony to a person that he is what he professes to be

Experts that analyze and recognize counterfeit money dont spend time looking at counterfeit notes, but the real ones. So they are able to recognize the fake bills when they see them.

Why is it that everyone is focused on the Mark of the Beast and not the mark or Seal of God?

So based on the above definitions, what is the Seal of God in the Bible?

Edited June 30, 2012 by soldier2