Women Pastors

[Kabowd]

We have to be careful making choices based on what we feel. While it's an extreme example, there have been many ppl do horrible things (such as abuse their wives or children) because they *feel* God is telling them to do so. There is more scriptural support for slavery (if you look at it on the surface) than there is to support having women pastors, yet if we look at those verses in the scope of God's design and the consistency of His character throughout the bible..we could easily disprove that slavery is something He wouldn't want us to participate in.

I'm also not understanding how a female pastor (which would mean she has authority over men) could do so and still consistently be "under" her husband's authority. To me, this seems like it would be conflicting roles.

[Shelby]

In other words, Paul is saying that women should lead a life that would not thrust them into a position of authority but instead lead a life that avoids being put in that situation.

So if she has lived a life true to God and has avoided any "thrusts" into positions of authority, yet God leads her to Stand Up and follow his will to lead a congregation, or become a missionary, or she is by virtue of her witness given a position of authority...... Then what? She should turn it down?

I appreciate your translation and bringing us the original texts, but when you put the definition I don't think it made sense with this context. I am trying to really hear what you are saying.

IJN

The hypothetical you offer is wrong though. You're asserting that God would go against His Word, thus in the hypothetical my answer is she thinks she's called but really isn't. Unless, of course, that authority position isn't over a man.

Say............. Mother Theresa? She did look for fame, or anything, she was just following God with all her heart. Believe it or not she was in authority, by virtue of being a known 20th century icon. God did call her.

Second, who says God went against his word. Your explanation just said that she shouldn't seek a position of authority, it didn't say God wouldn't choose that woman. I think we limit the interpretation of the Holy Spirit to our hearts because sometimes we become so legalistic.

My hypothetical was directly from what I understand of your words...

In other words, Paul is saying that women should lead a life that would not thrust them into a position of authority but instead lead a life that avoids being put in that situation.

Do you get why I used that hyp.? I do believe that God would not contradict His word. I don't believe it is. I am comfortable and have learned much from this portion of scripture, and have prayed for God's true meaning and interpretation of it. I am very open for God to change my heart if he hasn't called me to be a minister. IF anything this has drawn me closer and solidified my calling.

I think to say:

she thinks she's called but really isn't

Is not following other parts of scripture. Who's judge are you to say such a thing? Only God can judge a persons heart and motivation.

[Shelby]

We have to be careful making choices based on what we feel. While it's an extreme example, there have been many ppl do horrible things (such as abuse their wives or children) because they *feel* God is telling them to do so. There is more scriptural support for slavery (if you look at it on the surface) than there is to support having women pastors, yet if we look at those verses in the scope of God's design and the consistency of His character throughout the bible..we could easily disprove that slavery is something He wouldn't want us to participate in.

I'm also not understanding how a female pastor (which would mean she has authority over men) could do so and still consistently be "under" her husband's authority. To me, this seems like it would be conflicting roles.

This is what I said. I don't any decision should be made based on feeling. PLEASE lets not do the semantics thing.

Even if she feels and knows that it is God calling her?

Also, I think that when the Bible is speaking in specific terms of men and women it is talking about the marriage relationship.

[Orr v'emet]

The Greek word used here (for silence) is hesuchia which is refered to a person who leads a life of quietness, someone who doesn't meddle in other people's affairs, ect. In other words, Paul is saying that women should lead a life that would not thrust them into a position of authority but instead lead a life that avoids being put in that situation

Thanks SJ, you were understanding my question!

I should point out that women are quite the opposite of the above by nature! HA! Partially kidding here! :oww:

[tsth]

Dear Shelby,

So do you disagree that God implemented a certain order within man and woman? Or are you inclined to say it's circumstantial?

Just wondering.

In His Truth,

Suzanne

[Shelby]

Dear Shelby,

So do you disagree that God implemented a certain order within man and woman? Or are you inclined to say it's circumstantial?

Just wondering.

In His Truth,

Suzanne

No I believe that wives should submit to their husbands. I am married and understand how hard the task can be sometimes, but God is there always.

I believe that God has set an order, I just don't believe we can take from the few scriptures used to discount the possibility that God could call, even a woman.

He is able, to do much more than we could ever dream. And I don't believe that it would contradict his word. There were many women in the Bible who held leadership position.

[tsth]

Dear Shelby,

So do you disagree that God implemented a certain order within man and woman?  Or are you inclined to say it's circumstantial?

Just wondering.

In His Truth,

Suzanne

No I believe that wives should submit to their husbands. I am married and understand how hard the task can be sometimes, but God is there always.

I believe that God has set an order, I just don't believe we can take from the few scriptures used to discount the possibility that God could call, even a woman.

He is able, to do much more than we could ever dream. And I don't believe that it would contradict his word. There were many women in the Bible who held leadership position.

Dear Shelby,

You sidestepped the question rather nicely. I wasn't referring specifically to husbands and wives, my wording was "man and woman". By your response you do believe that it is circumstantial I take it? You believe that God's order for man and woman is confined to marriage alone?

I also believe women can be "called", but not into pastoral/authority positions, that place them over men, that does conflict with Scripture. But most definitely women ARE called.

There were many women in the Bible who held leadership position.

Would you mind elaborating on those women?

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Shelby]

Well,

A couple things. I think it would be easier to read the entire thread than for me to dredge through all this again.

Dear Shelby,

You sidestepped the question rather nicely.

Next, I feel no need to respond to your post. If you truly wanted to me explain myself better, you could have asked nicely. I did not side step anything. I answered the way I did in relation to the way I felt would answer your question.

Once again, I believe that God has set an order, I don't believe we can take from the few scriptures used to discount the possibility that God could call, even a woman to be a minister.

That is all I have to say to you. I have been through this too many times to put it all back on here. I am seeing that this discussion has gotten to a stagnate point.

I think I have stated all I can, if you really want the answers to what I believe and why, just read the whole thread. I also am behind Keslc 100% so you can read hers as well to help understand better. There were threads in the past named the same that I also contributed to that state my position and conviction.

ON A DIFFERENT NOTE:

I would just like to say to those who disagree with me that God could and does call women to be ministers, that I am 100% confident that God spoke to my heart and has set my ENTIRE life on a path that was directed towards becoming an ordained minister. There is not other way it would have come about. This was nothing I sought out. God called, He is God, who am I to question His will for my life. I didn't just have a "feeling" that he called me, it is so much deeper, and to say that I might "feel called but really am not" is disrespectful, and not anyones place to judge my heart, or my motivation, or integrity. People assume that since I believe God can call a woman, that I am some actvist, if anything I am the opposite of a n activist. I am a wife, a submissive one. My husband met me when I was in seminary. He was not in seminary. I was ordained and sent to a church. Later we got married. He will eventually be going to the same seminary. He supports me and encourages me in my calling. UNDERSTAND - My calling is daily confirmed by God to me. He has given me a deep passion for the souls of the lost and for discipling those who know him already.

Just as some of you try to convince, question, interrogate, and inquire about why those of us believe this way, to see it your way, God is using that to confirm my calling even more. I am delving more and more into scripture and prayer, and it has made me more secure in my calling. But as you question etc, I think the tone, and sometimes patronizing leading questions speak more towards your walk than to convict me of mine.

Please take time to see that God is the ONLY judge. Sure we are told to help our fellow Christians, but we really don't know eachother on here. Just by select few posts.

Enough of my rambling. Seriously, before you go and call me a liar and say that I have a fake calling, take time to check yourself.

[tsth]

I'm sorry Shelby that you were offended. I just find it deeply troubling when God's implemented order is dismissed, and then one is expected to consider your teachings on the Scriptures as authoritative. I would find it extremely hard to follow you, when the Scriptures are very clear about God's order otherwise.

In His Truth,

Suzanne

[tsth]

Dear Shelby,

Would you agree that any lesbian/gay minister would use the same justification that you just did above, as well?

It all comes down to feelings, and a special revelation that just happens to go against the Scriptures.

In His Truth,

Suzanne