Counter Cult Ministry

[lemminglord]

Christians way outnumber Jehovah's witnesses. What would happen, if a few Christians decided that when they see Jehovah's witnesses going door to door, they decided to accompany them on their walks, and provide a balance to what the JWs have to say?

With gentleness and respect of course. The same would go for Mormon missionaries.

I remember one time as a kid in high school, a team of LDS (mormon) men came to the house. I answered the door and the men introduced themselves and when my dad got to the door, started their presentation. In the denomination I attended (and still do), we had a weekly magazine and in the front cover was a list of our fundamental truths. My dad was not one who grew up in a Christian house and was barely tredding water with these men. A progam I was involved with in church aimed at using compatition and fun to teach Biblical truths. Being that dad was having trouble, I grabbed a copy of the magazine and went to help. I just asked them simple questions based on the truths I grew up with, such as "I believe that the Bible is the only inspired and infallible word of God", and explain as best a high schooler could why I believed it was true. Then men would explain their beliefs and I would respond if I could.

...

Well, the story ends with the LDS men clearly befiddled. They said as much: Well, it is good to see that someone does know what they believe. And with that they left. I never met them again, but I felt something then that I have not felt since. Like I had made my Heavenly Father proud.

TinTiger, what a great way to minister and fellowship. I hope I can live up to your example. It is such a blessing to have Jehova Witnesses and the LDS (Mormons) come knocking on your door. We could all learn a lesson from the way you handled the situation. They came to spread their understanding of the gospel, and it provided you the best opportunity for you to share your understanding with them. Ideally, with all parties open to the Holy Spirit, all parties will come out of the meeting closer to God and closer to the Truth.

I doubt that walking with missionaries with different beliefs than us purely to show how right we are and how wrong those we are walking with would provide much fruit..

Psalm 1:1 says "Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers." I believe that it would be too easy to become mockers using the method of "escorting" other missionaries for the sole purpose (soul-purpose!) of contradicting them. We might also want to look at it from the neighbor's point of view... Having two friendly strangers into my home out of the blue who want to change my life is intimidating enough.... but imagine four strangers.... where there is some kind of enemity between them... how much more intimidating would that be!! Not to mention how insulting... Here are two groups of people who think I'm wrong and are coming to my house to tell me how wrong I am... and one of the groups thinks I'm so susceptable to coersion that they feel they need to be there sharing their point of view too...

I also think it is counter productive to use the word "cult" to describe these organizations. The word is heavily charged with emotion conotation and mostly devoid of definitive substance.. Saying the JH or the LDS organizations are cults is tantamount to calling them "lousy good for nothing brainwashing organizations" which doesn't exactly show the loving respect Jesus asks us to show.

[j102]

Have to admit they way the JW knock on the door of strangers, or standing on the street holding those booklets for hours. It is not an easy thing to do for many of us. It is something we should all think about.

Blessings

let's not forget that most J.W. go door to door not out of love or concern, but instead do it out of the belief that works=salvation. so they are basicly trying to save themselves plus the J.W. teaches its members that it is ok to lie to "unbelievers"

[Guest]

I also think it is counter productive to use the word "cult" to describe these organizations. The word is heavily charged with emotion conotation and mostly devoid of definitive substance.. Saying the JH or the LDS organizations are cults is tantamount to calling them "lousy good for nothing brainwashing organizations" which doesn't exactly show the loving respect Jesus asks us to show.

That could be true. Certainly the word is not seen as a word of approval, but then I do not seek to imply that I consider their faith as acceptable. Technically, Christianity is also a cult, but of course it is not in the generic sense that I use it here, since I am speaking to a largely Christian audience. It is no secret to JWs and LDS, that Christians consider them a cult. None of them who is interested enough in spiritual matters to hang out here, will be surprised by the term.

Of course the most loving man of all time had things like this to say:

“You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart.

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. “So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

Since Jesus was the epitomy of love, I do not see how the mere use of the term cult is unloving, no matter how it is perceived. I am sure the Pharisees were not 'feeling the love' when Jesus spoke to them either, that does not mean that it was not there. "Speaking the truth in love", is not about being liked.

For what it is worth though, my wife (before I met her) was in a cult. She had friends at school that told her she was involved with a cult (it was the 'church' of her parents). Upon hearing that she was in a cult, she wanted nothing to do with it, and started learning about the real faith and became a Christian. Point is, there are no hard rules about what works and was does not. We need to be wise about it, and very sensitive to the leading of the Spirit.

That is probably why you see the various prophets and apostles, and our Lord, adressing some people with the most gentle of words, while at other times railing against their hypocrisy, lack of faith, and other spiritual errors.

Certainly I think we try to have very civil, respectful dialogues with the lost, but we must never be accepting or appear to accept hell bound doctrine. Gentleness, tact, respect, etc. are things we need to cultivate, but never tolerance for doctrines of demons.

When I started this thread, the topic was not about witnessing to the cults, but an effort to fireproof their victims.

[lemminglord]

If you disagree with a religious point of view, pleaes explain your disagreement. Don't simply call them names.

If you believe the LDS or JH are more of a brood of hypocritical vipers than other Christian sects, please do so with proof rather than propaganda.

Who are these victims you speak on?

[j102]

If you disagree with a religious point of view, pleaes explain your disagreement. Don't simply call them names.

If you believe the LDS or JH are more of a brood of hypocritical vipers than other Christian sects, please do so with proof rather than propaganda.

Who are these victims you speak on?

all one needs to do is go online and compare the doctrines of lds, jh, or the many other "christian" sects with that of mainline christianty. for example the LDS believe that almighty god was once just a simple flesh and blood creature, but somehow "evolved" into a diety, and that those who are faithful will become a god over there own planet. plus they deny that christ is GOD.

also the JW deny that christ is god also, they believe he is merely a created angel and also they believe they are god's prophet to the earth and also preach that jesus has returned to earth and he rules and reigns through the JW organization

[lemminglord]

If you disagree with a religious point of view, pleaes explain your disagreement. Don't simply call them names.

If you believe the LDS or JH are more of a brood of hypocritical vipers than other Christian sects, please do so with proof rather than propaganda.

Who are these victims you speak on?

all one needs to do is go online and compare the doctrines of lds, jh, or the many other "christian" sects with that of mainline christianty. for example the LDS believe that almighty god was once just a simple flesh and blood creature, but somehow "evolved" into a diety, and that those who are faithful will become a god over there own planet. plus they deny that christ is GOD.

also the JW deny that christ is god also, they believe he is merely a created angel and also they believe they are god's prophet to the earth and also preach that jesus has returned to earth and he rules and reigns through the JW organization

These are differences.. How does that make these churches more of a "cult" than any other church? I guess we need a working definition of cult because just now it is just an inflmatory word.

[Guest]

If you disagree with a religious point of view, pleaes explain your disagreement. Don't simply call them names.

If you believe the LDS or JH are more of a brood of hypocritical vipers than other Christian sects, please do so with proof rather than propaganda.

Who are these victims you speak on?

I didn't call them names. I only pointed out that we have examples in the Bible of spiritual giants using harsh language concerning those who are responsible for spreading spiritual error. The implication to me then, is labeling them a cult, is not as harsh as what devote men of God (and our Lord Himself) did in the face of religious error in their own time.

Of course I admit that I am not of substantial spiritual merit to do the same on my own authority, but when I see the clear teaching of scripture twisted into something out of line with the teaching of the Bible, the Lord, the apostles and the historic church, I cannot pretend that all belief systems stand as peers to each other. While their can be merit in some of the teachings of most any religion, some things are of crucial significance, and can pertain to one's eternal destiny.

You know that contradicory ideas cannot all be correct, at most, only one is. Recognizing this, I expect people of other religions to think me a heretic, I am fine with that, I do not hold that against them, it is what they beleive. If they do not stand for what they beleive, then there is something wrong with them in my opinion, I suspect they might think the same of me. If they believe I am in error, and in danger of losing my soul, they should tell me so in the bluntest of terms. This is not an area to play nice nice. While it is good to be respectful, loving and tolerant in the marketplace of ideas, it is not loving at all to withold the truth from others. If I am wrong I want people in my face getting my attention, even if I might not seem to like it, it is the loving thing to do to correct me. Sometimes shock value is what sinks in.

You know that the Jews referred to the gentiles as dogs, pagans etc, I do not recall them ever being corrected for that, but I could be wrong. That being the case, I do not see a need for Christians to bow to some sort of Spiritual Correctness (similar to political correctness). I do not use the word cult as a perjorative, just a word that distinguishes true Christianity from conterfeits.

The victims are all those who fall prey to these doctrines of demons (a biblical term, not my own) by teaching error to the unreached.

As far as a definition of the term cult . . .

As I said already even Christianity is a cult by a strict decionary definition, but in a primarily Christian audience, there is generally a more narrow, specific definition. Perhaps there are several and not full agreement on just what constitutes a cult. However, the late Dr. Walter Martin, professor of comparitive religions and widely acknowledged as perhaps the leading expert on cults in his life, generally defined a cult something like this:

A cult is a group of people usually polarized around a specific individual's teaching or interpretation of the Bible and is characterized by major deviations from orthodox Christian faith relative to the central doctrines of the Christian faith, especially the diety of Christ.

By that working definition, Mormonism is a cult because it denies the diety of Christ, and is centered around one person's teaching (Joseph Smith). Jehovah's Witnesses, same thing, except substitute Charles Taze Russel. There are scores on non-Christian cults like that. The fact that they claim to be followers of the Bible or even of Jesus, while they deny core Christian doctrine from the bible, is how they earn that distinction.

I beleive that the majority of people allied to these religions are very sincere in their beleif, and many of them work very hard to live out their faith. This makes them deserving of our respect as people. However sincere they are, they are sincerely deceived, and are unintentionally deceiving others, and that is something that the church needs to stand against, no matter how well intended these people are.

I have said everything that I can think of to make my position clear, so I doubt I will need to say anything further here. One of the reasons that I do not venture into the forums often, is because there are too many people, who just want to argue until the other person admits he is wrong (that seldom happens) or until the other fellow backs out. I prefer to be the guy who backs out, because in the end, these threads get to close to flaming, and no one seems to learn a lot except how to extend an argument until everyone is tired of it. I have reached that point on this one, so am backing out, leaving others to have their last words on the subject if they choose to.

Bye, see you in another thread someday.

[Guest]

If you disagree with a religious point of view, please explain your disagreement. Don't simply call them names.

If you believe the LDS or JW are more of a brood of hypocritical vipers than other Christian sects, please do so with proof rather than propaganda.

Who are these victims you speak on?

I didn't call them names. I only pointed out that we have examples in the Bible of spiritual giants using harsh language concerning those who are responsible for spreading spiritual error. The implication to me then, is labeling them a cult, is not as harsh as what devote men of God (and our Lord Himself) did in the face of religious error in their own time.

Of course I admit that I am not of substantial spiritual merit to do the same on my own authority, but when I see the clear teaching of scripture twisted into something out of line with the teaching of the Bible, the Lord, the apostles and the historic church, I cannot pretend that all belief systems stand as peers to each other. While their can be merit in some of the teachings of most any religion, some things are of crucial significance, and can pertain to one's eternal destiny.

You know that contradictory ideas cannot all be correct, at most, only one is. Recognizing this, I expect people of other religions to think me a heretic, I am fine with that, I do not hold that against them, it is what they believe. If they do not stand for what they believe, then there is something wrong with them in my opinion, I suspect they might think the same of me. If they believe I am in error, and in danger of losing my soul, they should tell me so in the bluntest of terms. This is not an area to play nice nice. While it is good to be respectful, loving and tolerant in the marketplace of ideas, it is not loving at all to withhold the truth from others. If I am wrong I want people in my face getting my attention, even if I might not seem to like it, it is the loving thing to do to correct me. Sometimes shock value is what sinks in.

You know that the Jews referred to the gentiles as dogs, pagans etc, I do not recall them ever being corrected for that, but I could be wrong. That being the case, I do not see a need for Christians to bow to some sort of Spiritual Correctness (similar to political correctness). I do not use the word cult as a pejorative, just a word that distinguishes true Christianity from counterfeits.

The victims are all those who fall prey to these doctrines of demons (a biblical term, not my own) by teaching error to the unreached.

As far as a definition of the term cult . . .

As I said already even Christianity is a cult by a strict dictionary definition, but in a primarily Christian audience, there is generally a more narrow, specific definition. Perhaps there are several and not full agreement on just what constitutes a cult. However, the late Dr. Walter Martin, professor of comparative religions and widely acknowledged as perhaps the leading expert on cults in his life, generally defined a cult something like this:

A cult is a group of people usually polarized around a specific individual's teaching or interpretation of the Bible and is characterized by major deviations from orthodox Christian faith relative to the central doctrines of the Christian faith, especially the Deity of Christ.

By that working definition, Mormonism is a cult because it denies the Deity of Christ, and is centered around one person's teaching (Joseph Smith). Jehovah's Witnesses, same thing, except substitute Charles Taze Russel. There are scores on non-Christian cults like that. The fact that they claim to be followers of The Bible or even of Jesus, while they deny core Christian doctrine from The Bible, is how they earn that distinction.

I believe that the majority of people allied to these religions are very sincere in their belief, and many of them work very hard to live out their faith. This makes them deserving of our respect as people. However sincere they are, they are sincerely deceived, and are unintentionally deceiving others, and that is something that The Church needs to stand against, no matter how well intended these people are.

I have said everything that I can think of to make my position clear, so I doubt I will need to say anything further here. One of the reasons that I do not venture into the forums often, is because there are too many people, who just want to argue until the other person admits he is wrong (that seldom happens) or until the other fellow backs out. I prefer to be the guy who backs out, because in the end, these threads get to close to flaming, and no one seems to learn a lot except how to extend an argument until everyone is tired of it. I have reached that point on this one, so am backing out, leaving others to have their last words on the subject if they choose to.

Bye, see you in another thread someday.

The Victims Are The Little Children

But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh! Matthew 18:6-7

And Cults Are Those Who Claim The Book Yet Proclaim Another Way

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. 2 Peter 2:1-3

Any Other Way Except The Way Of The Truth, The Way Of Jesus Christ And Him Crucified

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:5

And Even Through A Believer Might Wonder From The Truth For A Short Season

Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him. 1 John 2:18-29

Our God Is Able To Carry Him Back

The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: 2 Peter 2:9

For He Is Oh So Able

And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved? And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible. Mark 10:26-27

To Save

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. John 6:47

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Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16

Be Very Blessed

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

[lemminglord]

If it is our purpose to spread the good news of Jesus Christ I would recommend not using the word cult to refer to other churches. I absolutely respect that you are not using it perjoratively and I absolutely respect that political and spiritiaul correctness mustn't detract from sharing the Truth. With that said, the term is received as perjorative and does more to harden hearts than you might realize. If we come off as scoffers than even true Christians will stay out of our way as proverbs 1:1 is clear to state.

Instead having a counter-cult ministry, we should have a Gospel Essentials Ministry. Just my opinion on the matter.

[treasured]

Of course I would have to put in my two cents being I was a baptized active JW for 13 years. They train their people not only what to say at doors of unbelievers but what to do in various situations (

actually do skits to act out different problems and how to handle things)..Their faith is not 'part of their lives, but is their lives...(they have meetings 4 nights a week not counting their home studies). So I really don't think that if you were to walk along side them that they would get into a brawl with you. Actually the majority are very sincere people who believe they are trying to help people avoid eternal destruction....as for working for their salvation, they have no promise or guarantee that they will be "remembered and called out to life on paradise earth". The only ones that do are those that believe they are of the 144,000 they are taught will go to heaven. So arguing with them or slamming doors won't win them to Christ neither will walking along side of them. The thing is they are deceived and are under a mind control...They need prayer first and far-most... then they need questions that will make them think on their own and maybe question their teachings. They are taught not to take anything (literature) from other faiths (or Christian-dumb) what they jokingly call Christendom.

The Christian Avon lady that God sent to minister to me would ask me questions before she would leave and not wait for me to answer so I would think and have to research (example: if the Holy Spirit is just an active force that Jehovah uses why does scripture say not to " grieve him?"....she would always come prepared with a new question to leave me with and after much prayer.

I could go on and on with things but won't. Just that there are many that the enemy has blinded the eyes of... pray for them, that the Lord will send the right person that will present the glorious Good News to them in a way that they will be able to see the truth about Jesus Christ the living Word.. "And the Word was God" John 1:1.

love in Christ

Treasured