ACORN Playing Behind Scenes Role in 'Occupy' Movement

[~candice~]

My earlier rant was more directed at the fact that spiritualism and politics have no place together in any discussion. Politics belongs in the world, separate from the kingdom of God.

God has no political preference, and anybody who thinks they're a better Christian for who they vote for is sadly deluded.

I see few people on there forums anymore, who are qualified to teach, and those that are probably don't endorse any political affiliation.

I've even seen you duck into dark places on occasion, Dave, and I have always considered you a brother, just as I have some of my liberal friends

Really?

Our faith belongs in EVERY facet of our lives and should never ever have left politics in the first place. What every country needs is a God-fearing God-loving politician who will stand up for what is right in the eyes of the Lord and never waiver.

A Christian should not be professing faith with their words and yet professing a dislike of His laws with their vote.

Either way you vote would be a candidate not worthy of God's endorsement. That's why it's important to endorse someone you know is upright. Who do you know who's upright. Only one in my books, and He doesn't need my vote.

5 years ago, the same people who run down the president now, would be the same people who said we should be blessing the president then. Politics just turns people into hypocrites

Not really, no. We endorse the person who most upkeeps His values.

[Guest]

My Heart Sings To The KING OF KINGS

The LORD is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the LORD is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

When the wicked, even mine enemies and my foes, came upon me to eat up my flesh, they stumbled and fell.

Though an host should encamp against me, my heart shall not fear: though war should rise against me, in this will I be confident.

One thing have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to inquire in his temple.

For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock. Psalms 27:1-5

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All joking aside, President Obama attended church until people voiced objections against what his (Christian) pastor was saying. Now he has pastors visit him at the White House for private Bible study. I don't think God would punish us by giving us someone who prays and reads the Bible. Seriously.

Oh vey!

Assured - surely you jest???

I don't understand what the problem is. The only difference between this President and President Clinton, is that he does not cheat on his wife with interns, and that he is African American. His ethnicity is not an issue for me, and his morality is an improvement.

Well

But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? 1 John 3:17

"I have been a supporter of President Obama and went to Florida for him, urged Jews all over the country to vote for him saying that he would be just as good as John McCain on the security of Israel. I don't think it's true anymore," Koch told Fox News' Neil Cavuto.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu got a chilly reception at the White House last week after Israel announced plans to build 1,600 new apartments for Jews in East Jerusalem during a visit from Vice President Biden. The announcement drew sharp condemnations from Washington and calls to cancel the construction plans – requests that Netanyahu says he will not heed.

Koch said he believes Obama "orchestrated" what happened in Israel.

"What they did is they wanted to make Israel into a pariah," he said. "It's outrageous in my judgment. "

Koch said he's shocked that Congress, which largely supports Israel hasn't "stood up and said to the president, 'you're wrong on this, Mr. President.'"

No details from the reportedly tense Obama-Netanyahu meeting have been made public. The administration's precise demands on Israel and what Israel has offered in return have also remained under wraps.

But that didn't stop Koch from offering his harsh assessment of the Obama administration.

"I believe that the Obama administration is willing to throw Israel under the bus in order to please Muslim nations," Koch said. "We'll know when I'm right or wrong."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.c.../#ixzz1cJ4s1DMx

We Know What God Thinks

For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,

I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

And they have cast lots for my people; and have given a boy for an harlot, and sold a girl for wine, that they might drink. Joel 3:1-3

And By Following The Money

For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. Matthew 6:21

The latest taxpayer givaway includes $76,000 for a 16th century mosque in China, $67,000 for a mosque in Pakistan, $77,000 to restore minarets in Nigeria and Mauritania, and $50,000 for an Islamic Monument in India.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton says the U.S. program to restore Islamic and other cultural sites in other countries is taxpayer Money well spent.

http://www.canadafre...p/article/26990

We Can Look Into The Heart Of The Beast

Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. Daniel 7:23

Military personnel threw away, and ultimately burned, confiscated Bibles that were printed in the two most common Afghan languages amid concern they would be used to try to convert Afghans, a Defense Department spokesman said Tuesday.

The unsolicited Bibles sent by a church in the United States were confiscated about a year ago at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan because military rules forbid troops of any religion from proselytizing while deployed there, Lt. Col. Mark Wright said.

Such religious outreach can endanger American troops and civilians in the devoutly Muslim nation, Wright said.

The decision was made that it was a 'force protection' measure to throw them away, because, if they did get out, it could be perceived by Afghans that the U.S. government or the U.S. military was trying to convert Muslims," Wright told CNN on Tuesday.

Troops at posts in war zones are required to burn their trash, Wright said.

The Bibles were written in the languages Pashto and Dari.

This decision came to light recently, after the Al Jazeera English network aired video of a group prayer service and chapel sermon that a reporter said suggested U.S. troops were being encouraged to spread Christianity.

The military denied that earlier this month, saying much in the video was taken out of context.

"This was irresponsible and dangerous journalism sensationalizing year-old footage of a religious service for U.S. soldiers on a U.S. base and inferring that troops are evangelizing to Afghans," Col. Gregory Julian said.

The military says a soldier at Bagram received the Bibles and didn't realize he wasn't allowed to hand them out. In the Al Jazeera video, which shows the Bibles at the prayer service, an unnamed soldier says members of his church raised money for them.

The chaplain later corrected the soldier and confiscated the Bibles, Wright said.

Military officers considered sending the Bibles back to the church, he said, but they worried the church would turn around and send them to another organization in Afghanistan -- giving the impression that they had been distributed by the U.S. government.

That could lead to violence against troops or U.S. civilians, Wright said.

Al Jazeera English, a Qatar-based international news service, said its reporters tried to get a response from military officials for its story but were unable to do so.

http://articles.cnn....nel?_s=PM:WORLD

Obama added his voice to a chorus of criticism of the proposed Koran-burning in an interview broadcast Thursday on ABC's "Good Morning America" program. Amid continuing protests in contries such as Afghanistan, he urged Terry Jones, pastor of a small evangelical church in Gainesville, Fla., to listen to his "better angels" and cancel his plan to burn copies of the Muslim holy book on the ninth anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

"If he's listening, I just hope he understands that what he's proposing to do is completely contrary to our values as Americans; that this country has been built on the notions of religious freedom and religious tolerance," Obama said. "And as a very practical matter, as commander in chief of the Armed Forces of the United States, I just want him to understand that this stunt that he is talking about pulling could greatly endanger our young men and women in uniform who are in Iraq, who are in Afghanistan. We're already seeing protests against Americans just by the mere threat that he's making."

http://www.washingto...0090903014.html

And We Very Well Know The Danger

But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. 1 Timothy 6:9-11

Of Choosing Man

Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. Jeremiah 17:5

Over Jesus

Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is. Jeremiah 17:7

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Believe

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

And Be Blessed Beloved

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:35-36

Love, Joe

[~candice~]

You will be meeting liberals on these boards, and you will have an opportunity to PM them and chat with them and ask them all sorts of things.

Just curious... "will be"??? We have had many liberals come and go from this forum and their message doesn't seem to change much. Should we be expecting a new influx, future tense noted?

[Assured]

You will be meeting liberals on these boards, and you will have an opportunity to PM them and chat with them and ask them all sorts of things.

Just curious... "will be"??? We have had many liberals come and go from this forum and their message doesn't seem to change much. Should we be expecting a new influx, future tense noted?

I wondered about that too.

Assured: As for the admonishment to deal with them in PM . . . I don't think so. I will deal with liberal points of view, just as I always have, right here on the board, directly. No PM necessary. Liberal points of view and their inherent hypocrisy and flawed logic never stand up to the light when examined closely. Look at the OWS being discussed here. Your so-called "grass roots" protesters (which are not grass roots at all) are, on the one hand, wanting a handout for everything. Free education, no Capitalism, replace it with Socialism, round everyone down to the lowest common denominator. Basically, no one will have to work for anything, which is always the liberals Big Dream. But when so-called derelicts and the homeless want to come in and help themselves to the OWS protester's food, being provided to them free of charge by others, suddenly, they don't like that entitlement socialist system so much. Someone else is freeloading off their free goodies. Hypocrisy, stand up and be recognized! They want a handout, but don't want the homeless to get one. The homeless don't have much choice in the matter, but the OWS protesters certainly do. This stuff isn't rocket science. OWS'ers are supposed to be priviledged, but the homeless need to get scarce. Got it.

We disagree politically. Don't try to read anyting spiritual into it. Plenty of Republicans are pro-choice and pro-gay marriage (don't forget about the Log Cabin Republicans). It is not the morally superior political position. Someone else tried to tell us that politics is politics, and religion is religion. I think we need to stop pointing fingers at the other side of the aisle and making them wrong. If I were to imply that Republicans are sinners who are under God's wrath, no one would stand for it. This should not be said about Democrats either.

[~candice~]

You will be meeting liberals on these boards, and you will have an opportunity to PM them and chat with them and ask them all sorts of things.

Just curious... "will be"??? We have had many liberals come and go from this forum and their message doesn't seem to change much. Should we be expecting a new influx, future tense noted?

I wondered about that too.

Assured: As for the admonishment to deal with them in PM . . . I don't think so. I will deal with liberal points of view, just as I always have, right here on the board, directly. No PM necessary. Liberal points of view and their inherent hypocrisy and flawed logic never stand up to the light when examined closely. Look at the OWS being discussed here. Your so-called "grass roots" protesters (which are not grass roots at all) are, on the one hand, wanting a handout for everything. Free education, no Capitalism, replace it with Socialism, round everyone down to the lowest common denominator. Basically, no one will have to work for anything, which is always the liberals Big Dream. But when so-called derelicts and the homeless want to come in and help themselves to the OWS protester's food, being provided to them free of charge by others, suddenly, they don't like that entitlement socialist system so much. Someone else is freeloading off their free goodies. Hypocrisy, stand up and be recognized! They want a handout, but don't want the homeless to get one. The homeless don't have much choice in the matter, but the OWS protesters certainly do. This stuff isn't rocket science. OWS'ers are supposed to be priviledged, but the homeless need to get scarce. Got it.

We disagree politically. Don't try to read anyting spiritual into it. Plenty of Republicans are pro-choice and pro-gay marriage (don't forget about the Log Cabin Republicans). It is not the morally superior political position. Someone else tried to tell us that politics is politics, and religion is religion. I think we need to stop pointing fingers at the other side of the aisle and making them wrong. If I were to imply that Republicans are sinners who are under God's wrath, no one would stand for it. This should not be said about Democrats either.

THUD. What?

Everything we do has spiritual consequences... you cannot partition your life into spiritual and non-spiritual components. Perhaps this is the problem. Your faith SHOULD permeate your politics! There really is a morally superior political position and that is one in which God is glorified - let's not pretend that calling bad good is morally superior!

[Assured]

I think a Democratic President would be just as qualified to appoint fair and competent Supreme Court justices as a Republican President. God is sovereign, and we need to trust Him whether we have a Democratic or a Republican President. Don't forget - an unsaved women who isn't able to get an abortion will go to hell just as quickly as one who does. IMO we should focus on presenting the Gospel to everyone we have influence over, and on praying for them. We should also pray that God's will be done with regard to abortion's legality in this country, and believe me, that prayer will be heard. I will be praying for this right along with you. I don't think it depends on whether the President is Democratic or Republican, because believe it or not legal abortion has enjoyed bipartisan support up until now. I think birth control is changing the temperature on that, though. Women who use birth control do not need abortions, so there is now an opening to end it.

Also regarding the envy issue of supposed conservative "elites," I will copy-paste what I said about that the last time you said that:

I don't think you realize how inconsistent this is with what everyone knows, which is that George Soros is a major liberal campaign contributor and he is one of the richest men in the world. Warren Buffet is another famous one. Countless people in the entertainment industry support liberal causes, including Steven Spielberg. I also come from a relatively affluent home. When I read this, I laughed out loud - LOL!

???? What does that have to do with anything, especially OWS? Abortion is a sin and you support abortion in the form of our current administration and President, because you support both. You are, politically, a liberal, so you support abortion even though you claim not to. If you walk down the street and see a woman being raped and do nothing, say nothing to stop it or stand against it, you have just become a supporter of rape. So you support the murder of unborn children. Abortion does not enjoy bipartisan support and never has. Conservatives, by and large, are against abortion.

George Soros is a criminal. He is a rich thug who attempts to destabilize currencies and countries with his "contributions." He is not some benevolent philanthropist. Supporting liberal causes means nothing. What would those causes be? Because it always astounds me that liberals, especially the Hollywood type would champion so hard for the rights of animals and saving the environment, but at the same time, could care less about innocent unborn children being murdered by the 100's daily. They have no problem with that. They don't want people to be poor, on the one hand, but don't care if they are killed on the other, as long as they have not left the womb yet. Liberalism is filled with hypocrisy.

Godly priorities mean that we focus on witnessing to the unsaved, rather than preventing them from committing the sin of abortion, but leaving them in ignorance to commit fornication and to lie, cheat and steal. These women will still go to hell, even if they can't have abortions. That's a problem. We need to get the Gospel message to people, and then they will be saved AND they won't have abortions!

Also, at least you finally understand that liberals aren't necessarily motivated by envy, since Mr. Soros, Mr. Spielberg, and many others are wealthy. But I keep having to repeat this -- pro-choice is not an exclusively liberal position. We need to hate the sin and love the sinner, which means we need to be careful how we speak of these people. But depend on it, some of them are Republicans. It wouldn't have been made legal in Roe v Wade if conservative judges hadn't been involved in the decision. There are spiritual realities at play here, that are going to affect people's positions on that. So it is appropriate to grieve over this but it is not appropriate to yield to the temptation to speak hatefully of these people. We should fear God, thank Him for saving us, and then pray for these people. Of course we should also vote our consciences. There is nothing wrong with that. I just want people who are pro-abortion who are reading this to understand that we love them and we want God to save them, and that we're praying for them.

Edited October 31, 2011 by Assured

[~candice~]

What you are doing is setting up a false dichotomy in which you can either witness to someone OR vote with your faith. That is not the case. BOTH should be done by Christians who love the Lord. Besides, what credibility do you have as a Christian when you say no to abortion to her face but yes to abortion through your vote? Don't think the unsaved can't see the hypocrisy.

[Assured]

You will be meeting liberals on these boards, and you will have an opportunity to PM them and chat with them and ask them all sorts of things.

Just curious... "will be"??? We have had many liberals come and go from this forum and their message doesn't seem to change much. Should we be expecting a new influx, future tense noted?

I wondered about that too.

Assured: As for the admonishment to deal with them in PM . . . I don't think so. I will deal with liberal points of view, just as I always have, right here on the board, directly. No PM necessary. Liberal points of view and their inherent hypocrisy and flawed logic never stand up to the light when examined closely. Look at the OWS being discussed here. Your so-called "grass roots" protesters (which are not grass roots at all) are, on the one hand, wanting a handout for everything. Free education, no Capitalism, replace it with Socialism, round everyone down to the lowest common denominator. Basically, no one will have to work for anything, which is always the liberals Big Dream. But when so-called derelicts and the homeless want to come in and help themselves to the OWS protester's food, being provided to them free of charge by others, suddenly, they don't like that entitlement socialist system so much. Someone else is freeloading off their free goodies. Hypocrisy, stand up and be recognized! They want a handout, but don't want the homeless to get one. The homeless don't have much choice in the matter, but the OWS protesters certainly do. This stuff isn't rocket science. OWS'ers are supposed to be priviledged, but the homeless need to get scarce. Got it.

We disagree politically. Don't try to read anyting spiritual into it. Plenty of Republicans are pro-choice and pro-gay marriage (don't forget about the Log Cabin Republicans). It is not the morally superior political position. Someone else tried to tell us that politics is politics, and religion is religion. I think we need to stop pointing fingers at the other side of the aisle and making them wrong. If I were to imply that Republicans are sinners who are under God's wrath, no one would stand for it. This should not be said about Democrats either.

THUD. What?

Everything we do has spiritual consequences... you cannot partition your life into spiritual and non-spiritual components. Perhaps this is the problem. Your faith SHOULD permeate your politics! There really is a morally superior political position and that is one in which God is glorified - let's not pretend that calling bad good is morally superior!

I agree. It was a roundabout way of saying that Democrats aren't automatically evil just because you disagree with them politically. I don't feel obligated to vote for an anti-abortion President who will hurt me and hurt my Grandma and Pa. It is my decision to prayerfully make, and I have made it expecting the Supreme Court to take this up. You will note that there is already a Republican majority in the Court. Get it to them NOW, and something may happen. But don't tell me to vote for a Republican just to get rid of abortion (not you, Candice - LOL!). I don't think it is necessary, and I don't want to do it.

Edited October 31, 2011 by Assured

[Assured]

Sorry folks - all of the above discussion probably could've taken place in a PM. If anyone has any question that I failed to address, please PM me. I didn't want to be rude, I am just trying not to derail this thread.

Now, where were we? Occupy Wall Street, right?

[other one]

mms://radiolibertyarchives.gsradio.net/radioliberty/102611c.mp3

you need to paste this into the open file selection to your media player.