Does THIS Doctrine line up with God's Words?

[Eccl12v13]

There is a doctrine where people believe once they profess with their mouth, believe with their heart and become baptized in the name of Jesus Christ they are saved and there is nothing they do that will cause them to loose their salvation. This belief is sometimes known as “Once Saved Always Saved” (OSAS). Well let’s use just a little common sense and a lot of scripture to see if their claim is actually supported by God’s holy word!

Who Gets in and Who Doesn’t

I was going to save the main point for the end, but I’ll cut to the chase! Let’s look at just a few scriptures and rely on God given common sense to see just how impossible the OSAS doctrine is. Let’s read who will enter God’s kingdom, when they find out, and how this information is revealed;

Rev.3

[5] He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Rev.21

[2] And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Now this is what we all look forward to; entering New Jerusalem and eternal life is the promise God says He will give to all that obey Him. Let’s continue;

[7] He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

[10] And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

Now let’s read who inherits all things and is allowed to enter this city and who does not;

[27] And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

So to answer the questions, who, when and how;

Who is it that is able to enter into God’s kingdom? Those whose names are written in the book life!

When is this information given? At judgment day, when the saints finally overcome!

And how is it revealed? Through the reading of names out of God’s book of life

Now let’s read the fate of those whose names are not found written in God’s book of life;

Rev.17

[8] The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Rev.20

[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

God’s word tells us ALL were judged based upon what was written in God’s books. Notice also they were judged according to their WORKS!!! No mention of faith… ( But that’s another lesson)

Let’s do a quick review;

1. God’s word tells us says ONLY those whose names are in His books will enter into His kingdom . Rev.21:27

2. Anyone who names are NOT found in God’s books will be cast into the lake of fire. Rev.20:15

3. You do not know if your name is in God’s books UNTIL the books are opened and your name is read. Rev.20:12,15

Now let’s turn for a moment to common sense to figure out another fact;

Can a person that has died change their fate? Before answering let’s quickly read the condition of the dead;

Eccl.9

[5] For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

[6] Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun

So a dead person cannot change their fate once they die. Common sense right?With that said, a person that dies with their name written in God’s book of life WILL receive the promise of entering New Jerusalem and eternal life.

Think about it! To die with your name written in God’s book of life……can a person get any more saved than that? Of course not! But you do not truly, 100% know for sure if your name is written in God‘s books until your name is read. Let’s look at an example of some people, who Jesus tells us, THOUGHT their names were written in God’s books. They thought they were saved, but they find out much too late that is not the case.

Let’s read what Jesus had to say to some that THOUGHT they were saved at their death.

Matt.7

[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Now let’s read what some of these well meaning people did…

[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

First let’s understand just when, “That day” is! “That day” the Lord speaks of is Judgment day. Now if Jesus says this will happen, you can count on it happening. There are going to be some people, probably many, that will contest and argue with the Lord on “…that day…“ Now do you think the people arguing their case with the Lord are drug dealers, prostitutes or gang bangers? No! These are people that went to church every Sun. paid their tithes and did just what they told the Lord they did; they prophesied, cast out devils and did MANY wonderful works all in His name. Now why do you think they are contesting with the Lord? Because they truly believed they were saved and was doing the good works that was needed for salvation when they died! But what does Jesus tell them? Let’s read….

[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Jesus tells them all of what they thought was right was in vain. Now they THOUGHT they were doing the will of God when they died! They truly BELIEVED they were saved when they died! That’s why they were pleading their case. Because someone told them what they were doing was right! Someone told them once they confessed and believed, that they were saved. Someone told them there was nothing that could change it. But what did they find out on “…..THAT DAY….“? They found out all of what they had done was in vain! Someone LIED to these people!

Let’s now read from Jesus own mouth what will give eternal life….

Matt.19

[17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

God says if you keep His commandments you will enter into life. Which? Jesus tells us;

[18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

[19] Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

So even though those that were pleading their case to Jesus were prophesying, and casting out devils, and many other wonderful works in Jesus name, if they were not keeping His commandments Jesus tells us He never knew them and that they worked iniquity.

Now we know that a name MUST be in God’s book in order to have eternal life and enter into God’s kingdom. We know if a name is NOT in God’s books they will be tossed in the lake of fire. And we also know that once a person dies their fate cannot be changed. So either a name is in God’s book when a person dies or it is not! Salvation or the lake of fire will have been determined at death! Once you are dead that is it! If your name is not in God’s book at your death, the lake of fire is what you have to look forward to. Nothing changes!

But let’s look at another situation. Is it possible to have a name REMOVED from God‘s books once it is there? Is it actually possible for someone to do something that will cause them to loose their salvation? Let’s think about this for a second. What if it were possible for a persons name to be removed from God’s book and they died before their name is replaced? Can their name be placed BACK into God’s book once they are dead? Of course not. We just read in Eccl.9:5-6 that once you are dead your actions cease. So what is the fate of a person who‘s name is removed from the book of life and not replaced before they die? God’s lake of fire.

Now why would there be any mention of a name being removed from God’s book if it were not possible? Why would there even be a discussion about it in the bible? And if the topic came up why wouldn’t God correct it at some point in the bible letting us know that once a name is in God‘s books it cannot be removed? Let’s search God’s word to find if such a discussion was had.

Can a Name Really be Blotted Out of God’s Book

Let’s read a conversation Moses had with God after returning from receiving the commandments. What we are about to read is really a plea to God for the wrong the people had done;

Exod.32

[30] And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin.

[31] And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.

Now let’s read Moses plea to the Lord;

[32] Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.

Moses plea to God was that his name be removed from the book of life. Now did God say that was something that was not possible? Did God tell Moses once a name is in His book it cannot be removed? Did God correct Moses by saying once a name in His book it is permanent? On the contrary! Let’s read what thus said the Lord;

[33] And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Notice God did not say it was impossible for a name to be removed. He did not go on to tell Moses once a name is in my book it is permanent. God did not say once your name is saved in His books that was it and nothing could be done to reverse it! Nor did God correct Moses on the spot! No! God said none of those things. He said quite the opposite! Let’s read again the answer God gave Moses concerning names in His book,

“…Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”.

Can God be any clearer on the subject? And what did God say about His book and the fate of those whose names are not in His book;

“And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” Rev.20:15

Now I know this was spoken in the OT and some may think it was only for those of that age, so let’s search God’s word to see if someone other than an OT figure spoke of blotting names out of God’s book of life. Let’s read if a name can be removed later on in the future.

Rev.3

[5] He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Jesus tells us those that overcome will be clothed in white raiment. And at what time will those that are found worthy be clothed with white raiment? At His coming! Jesus then tells us those that are clothed with raiment will NOT be blotted out of God’s book of! And what of those who did not receive white raiment? The only other place for them will be God’s lake of fire.

So is it possible for a name to be removed from God’s book of life! God’s holy word tells us Yes! “Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

And what is it that will cause a name to be removed? Sin!!!

And what does God say sin is?

“Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.”

So a name that is written in God’s book of life is NOT permanent! And if that is the case, salvation is NOT permanent! God tells us the one thing that will cause a name to be removed is the breaking of His laws, or SIN!!!

A name is either IN God’s books or NOT! The choice is yours based on your actions; based upon your WORKS! “…and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.”

Now let’s get back to using common sense for a moment. If breaking God’s laws causes one to have their name removed from His book of life, what is it that will ensure a name stays in God’s books? That’s right………..! Common sense tells us the answer!

Now I’m sure there will be some that try to refute all of this by quoting a lot different scriptures, mostly from the writings of Paul, or choose not believe any of it at all, but the fact of the scriptures remain; God’s holy word tells us….

A NAME CAN BE REMOVED FROM GOD’S BOOK OF LIFE!!

And if your name is not in God’s book of life before you die you will NOT enter into His kingdom. When will you know for sure? When will you be able to say without a shadow of a doubt that you are truly saved? When your name is read. Now let’s read some other scriptures that further support what we have just read.

My God IS a Mighty Fair God

Ezek.18

[20] The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Now we know what a sinner is. It is one that breaks the laws of God, which, according to God's inspired word, ALL have done. And the scriptures says he that sinneth shall die. Understand the death spoken of here is the second death. Now let's read what happens if the sinner turns from his ways, and stops breaking God's laws, or stop sinning;

[21] But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

[22] All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

So the sinner can change his fate, as long as he is alive that is. If he stops breaking Gods laws none of his transgressions will even be mentioned.

Now let's see if there is a flip side to this. Let's read what happens to the righteous when they stop keeping God’s laws;

[24] But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

So all of the good things a righteous person does can be wiped away and counted for nothing if he begins to sin again. And does he have the chance to redeem himself? Let's read;

[26] When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

In other words, when the righteous turns away from doing that which he knows is right he is no longer a righteous man; this man is now a sinner. And if he continues to sin and dies in his sins, then his fate will be the fate of a sinner; dying the second death of the lake of fire.

This goes hand in hand with what God told Moses;

“Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”

Gods ways are fair and equal for both the sinner and the righteous, just as He says in His word. We do serve a fair God!

Now some may want to still believe that they know they are saved, and once they are, they always will be and there is nothing that can change that. But let's read some more verses to see if this way of thinking should be one to adapt.

Let's read what Paul had to say about the possibility of him NOT making it into God's kingdom;

1Cor.9

[27] But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

So even Paul realized that it was possible for him to blow the mission and miss the mark, if he did not keep his body under subjection. Let’s read how Paul describes how hard it is for him to do that which he knows is right;

Rom.7

[18] For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

[19] For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

[23] But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

We find even Paul struggling with his flesh to do that which is right. There are times when he knows to do good, the will to do good is there, but he does wrong. He tells us the wrong that he does not want to do, that he does. Now what do you think Paul’s fate would be if he stopped struggling, gave in, and continued in sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth and after being made a partaker of the Holy Ghost?

Let’s let Paul tell us through the scriptures what his and anyone else fate will be if they stop doing that which they know is right and gave in to sin……

Heb.10

[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

[27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Paul tells us if we sin willfully after having receiving the knowledge of the truth there is no more sacrifice. Jesus died and shed His blood for us one time and one time only. The only thing that can remove the curse of the second death for breaking God’s laws is the shedding of blood; "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission." Heb.9:22. If we disgrace Jesus and reject His free gift, His blood, then God will take ours! And that is one trade you really do not want to make!

Jesus died for all of our PAST sins. If we continue to sin willfully, after coming into the knowledge of God’s word, the only thing that remains is, "...a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."

God’s law says blood MUST be shed for the remission of sins. We can accept Jesus blood, which was the grace He gave as payment, or we can give ours; either way God is going to require someone’s blood. The gift is there for the taking....the choice is ours whether or not we will accept Jesus free gift.

Paul says it again here;

Heb.6

[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

[8] But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

What the scripture is saying is; For those that have been enlightened, tasted of the heavenly gift and partakers of the Holy Ghost, if any of these should fall away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance, since they have decided to attempt to crucify Christ again, and put what He did to shame, then your end shall be death.

Now if it were NOT possible for someone to fall away why would the Holy Spirit have Paul to write it? It was given as a warning. It was given to let us now once we have been enlightened and allowed to be partakers of the Holy Ghost not to go back to that old man and that old lifestyle. For God’s words tells us the fate of the righteous if they turn back and do that which is wrong and die in it; “When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.”

Conclusion

So there you have it.....

If a person dies and their name is in God’s book of life they will, “…inherit all things…”! For those that die, having done something to have their name removed, they will be, “…cast into the lake of fire…”!

God says these will be the ones who names are blotted out, “Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book;”

And this is what God tells us sin is; “Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.”

The sinner can stop sinning and receive eternal life; “But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.”

The righteous can stop being righteous and start sinning and die the second death; “But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.”

If you continue to sin after coming into the knowledge of God’s word there is no more sacrifice. Jesus is not going to die for you again; “For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,”

Once you have been enlightened and choose to turn away from righteousness you cannot be renewed; "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame, But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned."

Nobody finds out until, “…the books were opened…” No one knows for sure until, “That day”

If a name that has been removed is not replaced before they die the lake of fire will be what they inherit!

Now is God a merciful and loving and longsuffering God? Yes He is. And do we not have an advocate sitting on His right side pleading our case to God, asking Him to forgive? Yes we do.

But God does have a limit to how much He will take?

“But they mocked the messengers of God, and despised his words, and misused his prophets, until the wrath of the LORD arose against his people, till there was no remedy.“ 2 Chr.36:16

God does have a limit to how many times He will send someone to give us wisdom, but instead we reject His true word and would rather believe a lie!

“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” 2 Thes.2:10-12

Now you can trust what some man has told you, saying once you are saved there is nothing that can change that. Then again you may choose to believe some other scriptures that better suits what you have been taught and dismiss all that you just read.

But God’s words do not lie!

“…Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”.

What does common sense tell you?

Once Saved Always Saved……just does not line up with God‘s word!

.

Edited October 29, 2011 by Eccl12v13

[Guest shiloh357]

There is a doctrine where people believe once they profess with their mouth, believe with their heart and become baptized in the name of Jesus Christ they are saved and there is nothing they do that will cause them to loose their salvation. This belief is sometimes known as “Once Saved Always Saved” (OSAS).

There is no such doctrine called "OSAS." It doesn't exist. A "doctrine" is an established teaching of the Church. Doctrines would include, The incarnation of Jesus, the inerrancy of Scripture, Salvation by grace through faith, The Deity of Jesus, Justification, Original Sin, etc. There are doctrines regarding man, angels, sin, the church and last things,

There is no doctrine called OSAS. There may be individual believers who believe something along those lines, but to call it a "doctrine" is misleading, as it indicates that it is something held to be entire denominations and it isn't. Even those who profess to believe in eternal security do not hold to OSAS as you describe it.

Well let’s use just a little common sense and a lot of scripture to see if their claim is actually supported by God’s holy word!

OSAS is not supported by Scripture; but Eternal Security is.

[Eccl12v13]

A "doctrine" is an established teaching of the Church. Doctrines would include, The incarnation of Jesus, the inerrancy of Scripture, Salvation by grace through faith, The Deity of Jesus, Justification, Original Sin, etc. There are doctrines regarding man, angels, sin, the church and last things,

God's word does tell us of other doctrines other than those given by Him;

Eph.41.

[14] That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Col.2

[22] Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

1 Tim.4

[1] Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Heb.13

[9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

2 John 1

[10] If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

Believe what you will, but OSAS is a doctrine. But one of man and not God!

.

[Eccl12v13]

OSAS is not supported by Scripture; but Eternal Security is.

And just how eternal is a name that CAN be removed from the books...the books that will determine your eternal dwelling place?

.

[Guest shiloh357]

OSAS is not supported by Scripture; but Eternal Security is.

And just how eternal is a name that CAN be removed from the books...the books that will determine your eternal dwelling place?

.

At any rate, Eternal Security is predicated on a sincere and genuine profession of faith in Christ. There are many who profess to be Christians, but that is not the same as an authentic profession of faith in Christ. There is a form of Christianity that does not have Christ in it. There are those who participate in the external, visible Christian community, but have never really made a decision about Jesus. They are depending on their church involvement to be enough to save them.

More to the point, where Eternal Security is concerned, it assumes a genuine faith in Christ. I have been a Christian for a long time and I have never seen anyone with an authentic profession of faith who lived in sin. l I have seen a lot of religionists who live in sin and attempt to either rationalize it or they come to church to insincerely ask for forgiveness hoping to get their sins absolved so they can go right back out and live in the same muck and mire of sin they lived in during the previous week. There is no provision for that kind of behavior and insincere repentance.

Eternal Security is not based on what you do. It is based on the faithfulness of God to keep His promises to His children. Eternal Secuirty does not teach that you can sin as much as you want. Those who believ in Eternal Security believe that a true Christian is not out looking for a way to sin. They are not living a sinful lifestyle in open rebellion to God. Rather, while we may stumble at times, it is in a sincere attempt to serve the Lord and He has promised that if we do sin we can come to Him and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Grace does not remove the necessity of holy living; rather it is the basis for living in holiness and godliness:

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

(Tit 2:11-14)

Indeed a person who is truly saved will bear that out in living a sober life inpurity, holiness and righteousness and they will also live with an eternal perspective in anticipation of return of Christ. Eternal Security simply means that we are secure in that God will not someday rescind the plan of salvation and retract the gift of eternal life and the hope of the resurrection He has promised to us. It is not about being secure inspite of you live, but rather we can live in holiness and godliness in the security that God's promises are sure and our hope is not in vain.

A Christian who possesses an authentic profession of faith in Jesus Christ has nothing to fear about eternity.

[Eccl12v13]

OSAS is not supported by Scripture; but Eternal Security is.

And just how eternal is a name that CAN be removed from the books...the books that will determine your eternal dwelling place?

.

At any rate, Eternal Security is predicated on a sincere and genuine profession of faith in Christ. There are many who profess to be Christians, but that is not the same as an authentic profession of faith in Christ. There is a form of Christianity that does not have Christ in it. There are those who participate in the external, visible Christian community, but have never really made a decision about Jesus. They are depending on their church involvement to be enough to save them.

More to the point, where Eternal Security is concerned, it assumes a genuine faith in Christ. I have been a Christian for a long time and I have never seen anyone with an authentic profession of faith who lived in sin. l I have seen a lot of religionists who live in sin and attempt to either rationalize it or they come to church to insincerely ask for forgiveness hoping to get their sins absolved so they can go right back out and live in the same muck and mire of sin they lived in during the previous week. There is no provision for that kind of behavior and insincere repentance.

Eternal Security is not based on what you do. It is based on the faithfulness of God to keep His promises to His children. Eternal Secuirty does not teach that you can sin as much as you want. Those who believ in Eternal Security believe that a true Christian is not out looking for a way to sin. They are not living a sinful lifestyle in open rebellion to God. Rather, while we may stumble at times, it is in a sincere attempt to serve the Lord and He has promised that if we do sin we can come to Him and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Grace does not remove the necessity of holy living; rather it is the basis for living in holiness and godliness:

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

(Tit 2:11-14)

Indeed a person who is truly saved will bear that out in living a sober life inpurity, holiness and righteousness and they will also live with an eternal perspective in anticipation of return of Christ. Eternal Security simply means that we are secure in that God will not someday rescind the plan of salvation and retract the gift of eternal life and the hope of the resurrection He has promised to us. It is not about being secure inspite of you live, but rather we can live in holiness and godliness in the security that God's promises are sure and our hope is not in vain.

A Christian who possesses an authentic profession of faith in Jesus Christ has nothing to fear about eternity.

WOW!!! You posted alot of stuff.....but did not address the issue!

God tells us that ONLY those whose name is in His books will have eternal life!

God tells us that names CAN be blotted out of His books!

Gos tells us that the ONLY thing that will cause a name to be blooted out is sin!

God tells us that sin is breaking His laws!

God tells us if a name is in His books when they die eternal life is theirs!

God also tells us if the righteous STOP doing that which is right and returns to sinning and dies in his sins he will die the second death!

So just how secure is a name in God's books!

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[Guest]

OSAS is not supported by Scripture; but Eternal Security is.

And just how eternal is a name that CAN be removed from the books...the books that will determine your eternal dwelling place?

One Name

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12

One Saviour

And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Acts 2:21

One Eternity

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. Jude 1:24-25

What's To Doubt?

Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. Hebrews 10:38

[Guest shiloh357]

WOW!!! You posted alot of stuff.....but did not address the issue!

God tells us that ONLY those whose name is in His books will have eternal life!

God tells us that names CAN be blotted out of His books!

Gos tells us that the ONLY thing that will cause a name to be blooted out is sin!

God tells us that sin is breaking His laws!

God tells us if a name is in His books when they die eternal life is theirs!

God also tells us if the righteous STOP doing that which is right and returns to sinning and dies in his sins he will die the second death!

So just how secure is a name in God's books!

Actually, I addressed the issue head-on. The problem is that you don't like the answer because to pulls the rug out from under the notion that a genuine believer can never be secure.

I can only speak for myself in that regard. I know I am saved. I made a decision to accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior. I have a "know-so salvation." I don't have to wonder if my name is still up there or not. I have passed from judgment to life and I am saved by grace through faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross. I have been to the Judge and that old account has been setteled a long time ago. So for my part, my name is in the Lamb's Book of Life and it will be there never to be removed. God is faithful to save to the uttermost those that trust in Him.

How secure is for everyone else? Well, that is something they have to settle with the Lord. Each person has to come to that hour of decision where they come to a realization of their sin and repent of it and truly turn to Christ for salvation.

As I said the Christian who has an authentic profession of faith has nothing to fear about eternity. Their name is in the Lamb's Book of Life and no one gets blotted out of that book.

[OldShep]

WOW!!! You posted alot of stuff.....but did not address the issue!

God tells us that ONLY those whose name is in His books will have eternal life!

God tells us that names CAN be blotted out of His books!

Gos tells us that the ONLY thing that will cause a name to be blooted out is sin!

God tells us that sin is breaking His laws!

God tells us if a name is in His books when they die eternal life is theirs!

God also tells us if the righteous STOP doing that which is right and returns to sinning and dies in his sins he will die the second death!

So just how secure is a name in God's books!

Deu_25:6 The first son she bears shall carry on the name of the dead brother so that his name will not be blotted out from Israel.

Psa_9:5 You have rebuked the nations and destroyed the wicked; you have blotted out their name for ever and ever.

Psa_69:28 May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous.

Psa_109:13 May his descendants be cut off, their names blotted out from the next generation.

Psa_109:14 May the iniquity of his fathers be remembered before the LORD; may the sin of his mother never be blotted out.

And then came Jesus Christ,

Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Teacher you ?: you say nothing about the everlasting salvation of Jesus Christ.

Eph 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

Eph 2:9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

Eph 2:10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Heb 10:38 But my righteous one will live by faith. And if he shrinks back, I will not be pleased with him."

Heb 10:39 But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved.

ICL Dennis

[Eccl12v13]

As I said the Christian who has an authentic profession of faith has nothing to fear about eternity. Their name is in the Lamb's Book of Life and no one gets blotted out of that book.

And this is what goes against what God's word tells us. You CLAIM that no one get's blotted out of God's book. But what does the word of God tell us?

Readers....I know that feeling that nothing you can do will remove you from God's books....but let's get down to it, read God's word and find for ourselves what God's word tells us! We are not to go with what man says, or feels or believes on this.

ALL of our doctrine MUST come from the word of God. And no matter what other doctrine anyone else presents;

Eph.41.

[14] That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Col.2

[22] Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

1 Tim.4

[1] Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Heb.13

[9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

2 John 1

[10] If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

If their doctrine does not line up with the word of God should we accept it? Absolutly not! With that said..let's read if GOD says whether a name can be blotted out of His books or not!

Exod.32

[30] And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin.

[31] And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.

Now let’s read Moses plea to the Lord;

[32] Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.

Moses plea to God was that his name be removed from the book of life. Now did God say that was something that was not possible? Did God tell Moses once a name is in His book it cannot be removed? Did God correct Moses by saying once a name in His book it is permanent? On the contrary! Let’s read what thus said the Lord;

[33] And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Now please understand something here....regardless of what ANYBODY says, the fact is this: GOD SAYS a name CAN be blotted out of His books!

Now when that happens I have no idea! I would say it does not happen after our first sin, but who knows? It may....but then it could be replaced! Does God remove a name after the 1st, 21st or 1001st sin? Who knows! One thing we do know is this;

Ezek.18

[24] But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

So all of the good things a righteous person does can be wiped away and counted for nothing if he begins to sin again. And does he have the chance to redeem himself? Let's read;

[26] When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

Not if he dies in his sins!

One thing we know for sure....ALL have sinned and come short. Look at David. A man after God's own heart. A man with lots of blood on his hand and yet we know that David will be in the kingdom. Now......do we all have the heart of David? No! But we have all sinned! Does that mean our names are not in God's books? Who knows!

Now when does God say enough is enough? I do not know that either. But if breaking God's laws can cause a name to be removed from HIs books...I'm thinking doing the oppsite will ensure a name stays in!

The bottom line is this;

God's word tells us that a name in HIs books is NOT permanent; "Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book."

And I would be very cautious of anyone that says it is!

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