John Piper - Why I abominate the prosperity gospel

[Guest agua]

[~candice~]

[OldShep]

Yea, some preachers get rich on the suffering of others, when they pass on I'm sure they will have their eye open.

My small church about 350 total, support the international arm of our American Baptist Family.We have a short term mission experience in the Dominican Republic every April. Which we pay for out of our own pockets. We pay for going down there for a couple of weeks, and for all the supplies needed to build things. This past April 17 of us went down, for health reason I do not go. We have been building a Hospital for the past three years. Plus we have A ministry of reconciliation and sustainable development among the Hutus and Tutsis of central Africa region.

We also provide support to http://www.compassion.com/ Plus we do http://www.intervarsity.org/

Nothing wrong with having money, as long as you know that you are not taking it with you.

JMO Dennis

[Guest shiloh357]

Good video.

[Guest]

Good video I've seen before, but its always good to get a reminder now and then.

[Botz]

I have also seen this video many times, probably because in the set up that I belong to one of the main proponents of the Prosperity Gospel is reverred

and the back of our church building is festooned with magazines promoting their ministry.

Our Pastor is a lovely godly caring individual and a good friend...in whom I have seen more genuine love and concern for people than in many others, and yet he has

bought in to these teachings where wealth is constantly promoted as a part of the Believers inheritance and realistic expectancy....on top of this

I was speaking to a dear lady there who has terminal cancer, and she told me she has been healed, but just has to walk in her healing...thus she is

now the 'victim' of the 'name it and claim it' aspect of the Prosperity teachers or word faith preachers.

It is very hard to come against such insidious teaching, especially when ostensibly these large US based ministries appear to be involved in

many good works, and the Gospel (albeit it 'corrupted') is being preached and people are being saved.

I wonder if anyone here has any advice or further revelation on what is to be done...or if they or their ministries were once involved, but

saw the errors eventually, and got back to true biblical teaching that doesn't pursue and teach another Gospel.

I try to distance myself from a type of heresy hunting mentality...but in this case I believe these teachings are the greatest threat

to the effectiveness of the Gospel in this present era, they are on my door-step and I abhor them.

Deeply concerned. Botz

[~candice~]

I got saved in a prosperity gospel type church. They had a lot of fruit, I saw a lot of people get saved despite the doctrine. If there is any comfort for you Botz, it is that He will not lose one of His own, and it is possible, and it happens, that people move from the shallowness of the prosperity gospel to the wonderful depth of His Word.

[Botz]

I got saved in a prosperity gospel type church. They had a lot of fruit, I saw a lot of people get saved despite the doctrine. If there is any comfort for you Botz, it is that He will not lose one of His own, and it is possible, and it happens, that people move from the shallowness of the prosperity gospel to the wonderful depth of His Word.

Sounds like Christian Outreach Center.

I reakise that there are a huge variety of Christian Communities/congregations that have absorbed some of these teachings, but are not trying to deceive anyone, and as you say, fruit is evident....my concern is what do we try and do about it if it is another Gospel as John Piper insists it is, and so do many others...how can we strongly oppose something from within...and how is it that many people in leadership seem blind to what is happening and demonstrate a complete lack of discernment...but in other areas they are outstanding. I can't work it all out and it grieves me.

[~candice~]

It was an AOG, Botz. Same thing, different label. They were preaching prosperity gospel alongside a gospel that DID hurt, required sacrifice, giving, denial of self etc etc. It was a very strange time. At the point I didn't have the knowledge to fight from within, so I can't really help you with your question. Sorry.

I think I pm'd you about this when we were still church hunting. Unlike many others I am willing to participate in a church I know to have errors because it provides an opportunity to be an influence.

[OldShep]

I have also seen this video many times, probably because in the set up that I belong to one of the main proponents of the Prosperity Gospel is reverred

and the back of our church building is festooned with magazines promoting their ministry.

Our Pastor is a lovely godly caring individual and a good friend...in whom I have seen more genuine love and concern for people than in many others, and yet he has

bought in to these teachings where wealth is constantly promoted as a part of the Believers inheritance and realistic expectancy....on top of this

I was speaking to a dear lady there who has terminal cancer, and she told me she has been healed, but just has to walk in her healing...thus she is

now the 'victim' of the 'name it and claim it' aspect of the Prosperity teachers or word faith preachers.

It is very hard to come against such insidious teaching, especially when ostensibly these large US based ministries appear to be involved in

many good works, and the Gospel (albeit it 'corrupted') is being preached and people are being saved.

I wonder if anyone here has any advice or further revelation on what is to be done...or if they or their ministries were once involved, but

saw the errors eventually, and got back to true biblical teaching that doesn't pursue and teach another Gospel.

I try to distance myself from a type of heresy hunting mentality...but in this case I believe these teachings are the greatest threat

to the effectiveness of the Gospel in this present era, they are on my door-step and I abhor them.

Deeply concerned. Botz

I have spent a lot of time traveling and going to a number of {churches} some were filled with the Holy Spirit and others, well lets just say they were filled with sinners waiting to be filled. I have heard hundreds of sermons, form hundreds of Pastors and I can truthfully says, that if the words spoken in a sermon can not work in a backward 3rd world country, as well in a land of plenty, then chances are it's not True.

I to have attended some churches that spoke of God wanting us to get rich and God wanting us to be free of sickness. They also spoke of singing Praises to the Lord and had great 'worship teams' leading us in songs of Praise and people falling down and being filled with, what was to be the Holy Ghost. They preached that God would heal those that believed in their hearts and gave out of their pockets, their 10% or more to the Church.Most of those healing sermons where people were called down and healed, were at times select people. Those sermons that were preached had better then 80% of the sermon was around giving in order to receive the Blessings of God.

In one church, I watched this man being wheeled forward and prayed over. The pastor making note that for years this poor person gave, and gave, to the Church. I watched as this person struggled and got up from His wheel chair, then jumped up and down and praised the lord and the people in the Church were on fire over the healing, the offering plates were overflowing. People that were not healed, was because they lacked, Faith because they had not dug deep down into their pockets. A few years later a couple and a thousands mile away, that same style message was being repeated, by a new Church I dropped in to visit on my way home....Wouldn't you know, after about 4 months of going to this church, they had a healing session, and guess who was wheeled down the aisle to be healed...That pastor is now in Prison and it's very Sad for many, many, people were used and robbed, by what they seen as a man of God.

If the so called "Word of God" spoken in any Church found in the United States, or any other great nation, can not also be used to save an Indian family in the jungles of South America or those people starving on the dried up plains of Africa, then those words are not from God, but another..{DKS aka OldShep}.Test the Spirits and if found wrong do what you can to make it Right. Thrust me it will not be easy, God, had not promised us that following Him would be easy.

The Love of Money makes men do some very odd things. They promise people that if they but Give out of their pockets, then God will give out of his Graces and you shall be rewarded 5, 10, or 100 times. Worshiping the Wrong God, here.........Was Paul paid to be a disciple of the Lord Jesus, did Paul travel to different parts of the land followed by servants carrying his bounty for given 10% to the church. When Paul set sail across the sea was it on a large Yatch, filled with servents? When I read the Bible I see, that after Paul met Jesus for real, and having been given a view of the 3rd Heaven, as a person running from town to town preaching about Jesus Christ. While people were chasing Paul beating him up and knocking him down. Forever being chased by the Judaizer and others trying to kill him he was caught and chained to Roman Guards.....To me, it does not sound like he was getting Rich {in worldly monies or fancy boats and planes like we have today}.

Paul writes in Philippians 4:12: “I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want.” Paul all so writes in: Rom 7:18 NIV I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.

There was a bunch of other stuff taking place in these churches as well,

ICL Dennis