War of the Words

[apothanein kerdos]

You may be right. I am still looking around for that web site. But kinda hard to find them sneaking around when they are right in front of ya.

http://www.lyricattack.com/h/hiddeninplainviewlyrics/

Uh....I actually like some of those lyrics. They display a good writing talent and convey true emotions that teens go through. I know that if I'm sad, I put on a sad song. It actually comforts me and doesn't keep me down at all. The music I listen to is merely a reflection of how I already feel...and that's how it is for most people.

[rejoicevermore]

Please do not overlook this information. It could be what you need. Or God wants you to know.

http://logosresourcepages.org/rock.html

[Kabowd]

You have got to be kidding me.....

[O'Dannyboy]

Good point. I do the same thing. In the end its all in Gods' hands anyhow. We must put on his full armor.

[apothanein kerdos]

Please do not overlook this information. It could be what you need. Or God wants you to know.

http://logosresourcepages.org/rock.html

You actually believe that? That is the biggest straw-man arguement I have ever seen to date. Let's look at the logical errors:

The Incorporation of Rock Music Into Christianity IS a "strange fire" offering to the Lord.

This is personal opinion that cannot be validated by the Bible. While we know that there is a strange offering, we cannot establish that Christian rock is a strange offering. It's based off opinion and, well, to be blatantly honest, stupidity.

When Rock Music first came onto the scene Bible believing churches recognized it for what it was...the music of sex and rebellion. No Christian ministry praised Elvis' gyrating pelvis. Even Rock Stars called a spade a spade. For example, in 1969, Life magazine quoted Rock star Jimi Hendrix: "through music, you can hypnotize people...and when you get them at their weakest point, you can preach into the subconscious minds what we want to say." Rocker Hendrix knew what he was talking about. He continued, "Definitely I'm trying to change the world." Music has an awesome power to mold the thinking of the masses and particularly the youth and rock musicians know it. Crosby of Crosby, Stills & Nash made that plain enough when he bragged, "I figured that the only thing to do was steal their kids. I still think it's the only thing to do...I'm not talking about kidnapping...but about changing young people's value system

This is to ignore what is being taught. What the actual meaning of this is that the lyrics can change a person's perception and feeling. But hey, for kicks and giggles, let's work under this paradigm:

So music, the actual acoustics of it, have the ability to open people's mind and let any message be transported into their head. So....if this is the case.....how is Christian music wrong again?

I'd go on, but it's a waist. Please, please, please tell me you don't believe that site.

[apothanein kerdos]

Good point. I do the same thing. In the end its all in Gods' hands anyhow. We must put on his full armor.

I just want to thank you btw, you've been very open minded in this discussion and it has been really pleasent debating/discussing this issue with you.

[O'Dannyboy]

:t: I like to debate. I hate to argue. I am here to learn not argue. Thanks for the compliment. You also have been to the point and non-offensive. "strength tempered with wisdom" As I am sure you noticed already I was more or less talking to hear my head rattle. Throwing rocks in the pond as it were. If anything I hope I can keep you guys on your toes, (without stepping on any).

[Eternally Striving]

I must place a disclaimer before I post to say that I have not read through the previous 3 pages of this thread. I was linked to this specific page, so that's where I started reading.

To give you members a background on my own personal views, they are as follows:

-I'm a Christian

-I'm a rocker

-I listen to most forms of rock, including but not limited to indie and hardcore.

-I always hold by the claim that Christian rock is NOT evil, band/musician depending. I do think that CCM is evil, but only evil in the sense that it in no way appeals to my personal taste.

Having given you my background, I'm now going to respond to the Logos Resources link provided.

The site makes the claim that rock music is bad (Jimi Hendrix, Crosby Still & Nash), yet Christian music good. I disagree. All styles are both good and bad. Jimi Hendrix was an amazing guitarist, therefore, his music is good. There was once a Canadian Christian band called Jake who when asked what their purpose for a song was, instead of answering the question, asked the publicist what he should respond with to the media. That would make them a bad band. At the same time though, secular rock bands that are blatantly endorsing the embracing of non-Christian actions, or are criticizing the faith are bad. And bands like...um...I don't know...any CCM or Christian rock band that's spreading a message of God's love is good.

You can't make the claim that all of one style is bad, and all of another style is good. It's wrong, and I can easily disprove the claim should need be.

This chart makes me go :suspect:

Too much (or erratic) pulse ----------- Body is sick

Too much (or erratic) rhythm -------- Music is sick

No pulse ------------------------------------- Body is dead

No rhythm ----------------------------------- Music is dead

Pulse under control ---------------------- Body is well

Rhythm under control ------------------- Music is well

1 - Not all music follows the general rhythm that we are accustomed to. Music from other countries and parts of the world have some crazy rhythms that are perfectly acceptable and "healthy". If you go by that claim, then only the European system of music is good.

2 - Lack of rhythm has absolutely no grounds on anything besides just being...bad, I guess.

3 - A controlloed rhythm just makes it more aesthetically pleasing to the ears. It has no bearing on whether the music is good or bad. FFH has "controlled rhythms" in their songs...it's still bad music . I'm only semi-serious about FFH.

4 - This could be extended to the claim that rock music, and then subsequently hardcore and metal and all other sub-styles of hardcore and metal are bad. That is an incorrect claim. Musically, it just doesn't hold much appeal except to a select group of people and kids. Lyrically, the bands can go either way, depending on what band one is referring to. Living Sacrifice sings praises to God, and Zao does Psalm 77. A band like Slipknot, while I don't know their lyrics, are going for a shock value, and therefore will not be edifying to someone.

The claim that music increases one's sexual drive...I have no idea, so I'll just leave that be.

Oi...the beat. I don't want to engage in aother debate about how the beat of rock music is evil. The issue at the point of it "resembling paganism" extends way beyond the realm of rock music. It goes into a disagreement about their culture, and that's another area of discussion. Hardcore is not spawned from the devil, and it will not cause you to engage in worshipping pagan gods, nor will you end up becoming a serial killer from listening to the hidden satanic messages.

I don't even know what that "Strange Fire" paragraph is referring to, so I'll leave that be as well.

That ends my commentary over that article.

I realize that the burden of proof to defend hardcore and rock in general is upon me, and will be more than happy to do so should any of you request it.

[Eternally Striving]

And Super Jew...I can't believe you defended a band like Hidden in Plain View. Honestly man, have you no shame?

[rejoicevermore]

You have got to be kidding me.....

I am not kidding. I am grieved!!!!!