War of the Words

[Kabowd]

Is it kosher for a Jew to say that?

[Eternally Striving]

My personal fav:

"That's not even false."

(in reference to something being outrageously wrong)

[Kabowd]

No, No, No....the new phrase HAS to be "Holy Ravioli"...and you know it, sister.

[Eternally Striving]

No, No, No....the new phrase HAS to be "Holy Ravioli"...and you know it, sister.

I like Ravioli.

[Kabowd]

No, No, No....the new phrase HAS to be "Holy Ravioli"...and you know it, sister.

I like Ravioli.

With rice right?

[Eternally Striving]

No, No, No....the new phrase HAS to be "Holy Ravioli"...and you know it, sister.

I like Ravioli.

With rice right?

Of course.

[larryt]

Joel,

To discuss something one must try to understand the other persons point of view even when we disagree. It seems to me that all you want to do is attack me. You don't acknowledge any compliments I give you. You "talk down" to me every chance you get. You want respect try showing some. You have made gross inflamitory statements about me such as these.

1) You're unfair to Christians by saying that they really aren't Christians by listening to Christian hardcore

-- I believe in OSAS. I also believe that there are many false converts in the "church" these days, not because they listen to Ch. HC but because they have never been truly born again. I don't believe that I have catagorically said that everyone who does anythng is not a christian. I am well aware of "gross generalizations" and try to NEVER make them. oops.

2) You're legalistic in your standards

and

-- You see legalism and I see a desire for purity, holiness and separation from the world. I believe in the liberty that ALL believers have in Christ. There is nothing that can separate us from the love of God. Some things aren't expedient though. The slave that loves his chains will never be free.

3) Your fears are misplaced

-- I don't know what fears you are refering to. God has not given us a spirit of fear but of power, love, and a sound mind.

Oh hogwash. Let's look at this claim.

You asked me to answer your claims that Satan used subliminal messages. You claim I've yet to respond to this. Let's look at all my responces:

-- You missed the question again. I will post it again. This is what you said.

Time and time again in the Bible Satan approaches the front door and is never hidden in any message.

and I have now asked you 7 times for a chapter and verse to support this statement you made. Satan never comes to the front door and says, "Hi, I'm Satan and I'm going to attack you now." Jesus said that the thief tries to climb in through the window and does not come to the door, and if we knew what time the thief would come we would have stayed up.

When I talk about "subliminal attacks" it's attacks that are obvious to human perception disguised in compliments or in sentences. The fact is, they're still there for all to see but watered down. Subliminal messages and attacks are two totally different things.

-- subliminal by definition means

below the threshold of conscious perception

It cannot be both perceivable and not perceivable.

My entire point in this is to prove to you that you are wrong. This is an issue I will not agree to disagree on and I will pursue it to the end. You are wrong, you're condemning other Christians, and I will not tolerate it.

-- but I get the idea that all you want is to win a debate. I condemn no one. I will continue to bring things to the light though and expose the works of darkness if & whenever I see them.

Eph 5:11  And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [them].

LT

[apothanein kerdos]

Eh, i guess I'll respond:

I believe in OSAS. I also believe that there are many false converts in the "church" these days, not because they listen to Ch. HC but because they have never been truly born again. I don't believe that I have catagorically said that everyone who does anythng is not a christian. I am well aware of "gross generalizations" and try to NEVER make them. oops.

They call him flipper, flipper:

And here you said:

THE MUSIC IS DEMONIC. God is not honored by this filth. All true christians will know what music honors God because all true christians have the Spirit of God and not the spirit of the world.

By stating this you asserted:

* You are a true Christian (I'm not arguing this)

* You noticed the stuff was demonic

* Anyone who does not notice that this stuff (Christian Hardcore) is demonic is not a true Christian

Nice try Larry, but you just condemned and alienated fellow Christians.

You see legalism and I see a desire for purity, holiness and separation from the world. I believe in the liberty that ALL believers have in Christ. There is nothing that can separate us from the love of God. Some things aren't expedient though. The slave that loves his chains will never be free.

You say this but you've failed to prove the following:

* Subliminal messages are effective

* Subliminal messages occur in Christian music that are demonic

* That Christian hardcore is demonic

* That Christian rock is demonic

* That Christian hardcore doesn't please God

* That Christian rock causes a Christian to stumble

You've stated all these things and haven't proved them, thus meeting the legalistic standard of stating absolutes without proof. I don't know, maybe legalistic isn't the right term. Fundamentalist might work better.

I don't know what fears you are refering to. God has not given us a spirit of fear but of power, love, and a sound mind.

The fears are as follows:

* That subliminal messages are causing youth to stumble

* That the Holy Spirit isn't strong enough to keep a Christian safe from subliminal messages

* That Christian Hardcore is perverting our nation

You missed the question again. I will post it again. This is what you said.

QUOTE 

Time and time again in the Bible Satan approaches the front door and is never hidden in any message.

and I have now asked you 7 times for a chapter and verse to support this statement you made. Satan never comes to the front door and says, "Hi, I'm Satan and I'm going to attack you now." Jesus said that the thief tries to climb in through the window and does not come to the door, and if we knew what time the thief would come we would have stayed up.

* This is only the 4th time you've asked it

* This is the 5th time I've answered it.

* I showed you within the verses you used how they support what I'm saying

* None of them even show a hint of subliminal messages

* I never said that he tells us he's going to attack us but rather he mixes truth with a lie in an upfront way. He didn't use subliminal messages to attack Adam and Eve, he simply hid the lie within the truth.

subliminal by definition means

QUOTE 

below the threshold of conscious perception

It cannot be both perceivable and not perceivable.

You pulled that out of the American Heritage Dictionary. However Webster defines it as:

Existing in the mind, but below the surface or threshold of consciousness; that is, existing as feeling rather than as clear ideas.

Thus when someone uses a subliminal attack against you, it's that sentence that doesn't sit well with you and you don't know why. Subliminal messages, or back-masking is a completely different idea in that the person cannot even hear them. Thus, with multiple definitions to the word subliminal, it's easy for me to use it one context and say it's effective while denying it's effectiveness in another context.

but I get the idea that all you want is to win a debate. I condemn no one. I will continue to bring things to the light though and expose the works of darkness if & whenever I see them.

* I've proven you're condemning people

* At least use proof instead of saying, "Oh, it's wrong" and leaving it at that

[WayneB]

Saints,

I see some good points on both sides of the discussion saints. What I do not see much of is Jesus Christ. Have y'all saints tried to discuss your opinions by providing God's Word as support for your understanding while refraining from unnecessary outbursts and personal attacks against one another?

Try something new, OK? Love one another and let the Spirit guide your words rather than your flesh. [James 3]

Be Blessed,

Wayne

Galatians 5

1

[larryt]

Saints,

I see some good points on both sides of the discussion saints. What I do not see much of is Jesus Christ. Have y'all saints tried to discuss your opinions by providing God's Word as support for your understanding while refraining from unnecessary outbursts and personal attacks against one another?

Try something new, OK? Love one another and let the Spirit guide your words rather than your flesh. [James 3]

Be Blessed,

Wayne

Galatians 5

1  It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.

4  You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

5  For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.

6  For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

13  For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.

14  For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

15  But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another.

16  But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.

17  For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.

18  But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

19  Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,

20  idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger,  disputes, dissensions, factions,

21  envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

23  gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

24  Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

25  If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.

26  Let us not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another.

Thank you Wayne,

LT