Why December 25 is Christmas

[joi]

Why December 25 is Christmas

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by Gene Veith on December 24, 2010

in Christ,Church,History,Holidays

As I keep posting about, Christmas on December 25 is NOT due to there being a pagan holiday on that day. Repeat: Christmas is NOT based on the Roman festival of Sol Invictus. Substantial scholarship has shot down that theory, but we keep hearing it--in the press, in books that try to debunk Christianity, in churches that oppose following the church year, and even in some comments on this blog.

Now the authoritative Biblical Archaeology Review weighs in, citing more evidence debunking the pagan origin of Christmas myth, showing how it got started, and--most interestingly--tracing how the December 25 date did get set aside as the date of Jesus’s birth.

To put it simply, the date is nine months after the Feast of the Annunciation, celebrating the appearance of the angel to the Virgin Mary announcing her conception by the Holy Spirit. That date is March 25. The reason for that date is the belief that great prophets died on the date of their conception. We do know historically the date when Jesus died, since it is tied to the Jewish passover. The church determined that date to be March 25, before Good Friday and Easter became floating holidays that always fall on the weekends. The article in BAR cites how widely the attested in Jewish and rabbinic literature is the association between conception date and death date, and how this was also well known in the early church.

Please join me in correcting the myth of the pagan origins of Christmas whenever you hear it.

http://www.geneveith.com/2010/12/24/why-december-25-is-christmas/

[other one]

If you want to believe that instead of the bible, I guess you can.... but the book of Luke very plainly states that when Jesus went to the temple for his purification which is 40 days after birth, a woman had been in the temple prayig all night and that only happens on one night of the year that the temple is not closed at sundown. That would be Yom Kippur And that time period - 40 days is in mid september. Luke also tied Jesus's 30th year to the 15th year of Tiberius. Take the 30 years from that and you come to 3bc.

And that day in 3bc would be September 11.

so if you are saying that his birthday really is in December, it would put into question the book of Luke and I'd say pretty much puts in jepordy the complete truthfulness of the Bible itself.

So, do we believe Luke..... or some dude on the internet.

[voiceof1]

from http://jahtruth.net/xmas

X-MASS - YULETIDE

A PAGAN FESTIVAL

(which is actually condemned by Christ)

CHRIST'S OPINION of SANTA CLAUS and YULETIDE, as expressed by HIS ANGEL, to HIS APOSTLE JOHN, in THE APOCALYPSE, Chapter 2.

Xmas has absolutely nothing to do with God. It was originally called Yuletide, which is a pagan festival from the Babylonian Mystery religion of SUN worship. The Babylonians were merchants (they were the originators of the "Market-system" which is condemned by God) and they used Yuletide to sell their merchandise because, like today, it made them lots of money. Then in the first century A.D. Simon (the Sorcerer) Pater (NOT Peter) stole the name christian, mixed it with the Babylonian Mystery religion and formed a new religion called christianity, that teaches the opposite of what Christ taught, and has SUNdays as its sabbath days, due to its SUN-god worshipping origins (Galatians 1:6-9; 2:4). Simon Pater NOT Simon Peter (Cephas) started the fake religion called "christianity" (Acts 8:9-25). Christ's TRUE followers or disciples called themselves "Followers of The Way" or "Those True to The Covenant" (Nazrim ha-Brit), NOT christians.

SUNday is the FIRST day of the week, NOT the Sabbath which is the SEVENTH day; on which God rested. This "so-called" christianity perverted the teachings of Christ and incorporated their pagan rituals, in their temples, which have as their focal point a "Tower of Babel" (from which the word Babylon is derived) in which were babbling-bells. This is directly opposed to the true teaching of Christ who says that YOU must NOT go to church (Matthew 6:5-6 where synagogue means all churches). They also hijacked the virgin-birth and moved it from April to December 25th to coincide with their own Yuletide festival, which Christ says he HATES, in the Holy Bible, in Apocalypse/Revelation 2:6, 15, where the Nicolaitanes, whose doctrine Christ hates, are the followers of Santa (Ni)-Claus, who celebrate Yuletide (and Easter [ishtar] a god of fertility - eggs are the symbol of fertility not crucifixion).

Verse 6: But this thou hast (in thy favour), that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes which I (Christ) ALSO HATE.

Verse 15: So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes (the followers of St.Nicholas - Santa Claus), which thing I (Christ) HATE.

The Nicolaitans celebrate Yule-tide (Christmas now) and Santa Claus (st. Nicholas) and decorate trees with silver, which thing Christ HATES, because it is Satanic and NOT from God or Christ, as he makes perfectly clear in the verses above.

SANTA CLAUS WEARS SCARLET which Christ has told us is SATAN'S COLOUR (see Revelations chapter 12 verses 3+9 - the great RED dragon - SATAN).

SANTA CLAUS is an anagram for SATAN.

SATAN LUCAS/LUCIFER - THE DEVIL.

There is nothing Godly about Christmas and Christ HATES it; so how can christians celebrate it? Who taught them to do so? Certainly NOT Christ or his apostles.

A true Christian would be one who follows Christ's Way, does what He did, loves what He loved and hates what he hates - he would not imagine or theorize on what Christ would like or not like.

The "Virgin-birth" was in Spring at the time of birth and The Passover, when "lambs" were being born. It was NOT in December, the seasonal time of death.

The virgin-birth was actually in April, with new-born lambs in the fields, just like the Second Coming.

The fact that the three kings came to pay homage, and brought gifts of great wealth, was used by Satan to give, to those who perverted the teaching, the idea to continue and even increase the sales of their merchandise (a great marketing-exercise for them). So the virgin-birth was hijacked and corrupted into a time to make lots of money, using the ultimate in "high-pressure sales techniques", which was to falsely use God's Son's name, in order to embarass people, who couldn't afford to buy gifts, to go into debt or steal in order to buy their merchandise. By doing this the rich merchants ruin the lives of the poor, driving them further into debt and poverty or crime, whilst making themselves richer and richer. It is WRONG and EVIL from every angle. The original gifts were from rich kings to the "supposedly" poor - from the rich to the Son of God. There is absolutely NO Biblical precedent or teaching that supports giving gifts to human children. The merchants have turned it all backwards and made it the opposite, where the poor give money to the rich. They have done this because it and they are Satanically inspired. Satan is a Hebrew word that means "the Opposer" - someone who does and says the OPPOSITE of what God says, telling and teaching others to do the opposite too, by words, persuasion and example.

Giving presents to human children, instead of them giving their "selves" as presents to God, feeds their egoes (the "self") and makes them more arrogant and selfish because people are paying homage to them, bringing them gifts. This arrogance then causes them to oppress adults (Isaiah 3:12).

Instead of which they should be paying homage to God, and being thankful for Him having sent His Son to show them The Way, using their money in God's cause (for good). Children like adults have to lose their egoes and become unselfish (by daily crucifixion - "self"-sacrifice); humble; polite and helpful, or they will continue the ruining of the world and cause themselves to be executed on the Last Day.

So, by giving gifts and celebrating a pagan festival, parents are, IN REALITY, doing harm to their own children and themselves, whilst making themselves poorer, and the rich richer and bringing about the ultimate execution of their children's souls (Beings) and their own, on the now imminent Last Day.

Children should get only what they need, when they need it and NOT get expensive useless rubbish that breaks and/or is quickly discarded. They need you to spend the time, that you spent working to buy presents, with them, teaching them love and how to behave properly, instead of feeding their egoes. Less time at work, for you, and more time with your children so that you are not strangers to each other.

Christ came to bring True Justice for everyone, to put an end to poverty and make life loving and better EVERY day not one miserable day a year.

The decking of fir trees with silver and gold and placing presents (offerings) under them is also a pagan ritual condemned by God in the Bible in Jeremiah 10:2-4. Nimrod/Osiris/Horus is often pictured with wings, holding reindeer and a fir tree.

Also, if you take the word CONIFER, which is the name given to the family of trees to which the Christmas (Fir) tree belongs, and split the word in two, you get:

CON-IFER

CON - Satan is known as the biggest con-artist ever. He invented it.

IFER - The last half of Lucifer's name.

HE'S LAUGHING AT ALL OF US RIGHT NOW!

--------------------------------------

SANTA SATAN

by Mr. Normal

(Xmas Eve, 2000)

Is it plausible that Santa is really Satan?"

Think about it, folks! It's not just that "Santa" is an obvious anagram of Satan; that Santa wears a demonic red suit symbolic of the fires of Hell; and that his huge hat must conceal horns. The clincher is that Santa represents xmas, that time of year when christian greed and phony sincerity reach their unctuous peak. It's the season when braindead followers of the ultimate cult are whipped into frenzies that leave them figuratively drained -- broke and exhausted.

Understandably, it's also the time of the year when depression and suicides max out as the futility of achieving happiness sinks in at least subliminally. A December, 2000 Gallup poll shows that 85% of us think that xmas is too commercial, but Santa/Satan wouldn't have it any other way! Our most respected institutions are in on the plot too. Even the law of the land (U.S.A.) forbids a baby Jesus in the town square, but who's there instead? You guessed it! Santa! - Satan.

Lucifer/Satan once was one of God's angels. Satan's attempted heavenly coup failed (Isa. 14:12-15), but he was given his very own place to rule and called it Hell/Earth (Rev. 12:9) Satan also got free reign to tempt as many people as he wanted (even Christ himself!) and lots of fabulous stuff to tempt them with (like eternal youth and Mercedes Benzes). However, Satan still was not satisfied. He worked hard to make xmas the most important retail event of the year. A recent survey showed that 60% of holiday spending occurs at xmas, and another 20% at Satan's recognized holiday of Halloween. Think about it, folks! Satan has locked up 80% of our holiday dollars! Who else could be the "red dragon" of Revelation 12:3, ?. More important is that asking Santa for something really is an unwitting pact with the Devil, and parents are dooming their children's souls to Hell-Fire! (Coming to your neighbourhood; soon - JAH.)

"Santa Satan's" devilish temptations have achieved what John Lennon could only try to claim for the Beatles -- greater popularity than Jesus! Indeed, "Santa Satan" truly is the reason for the season!

--------------------------------------

Christ, the Spirit-Being that was placed in-side the body (IN-carnated not begotten as it has been misinterpreted) called Jesus, was not born 2000 years ago or even 2,000 millennia ago. He is, as he said, older than this planet and zillions of years old, being the first created by God (His oldest Son - Prince Michael - Dan. 10:21). It was only the human animal organic computer (body), that was used by the Son of God, that was born 2000 years ago. You are not supposed to worship or make graven images of a human organic computer, similar to the one that you are locked inside of, or even the spirit (Christ) that was within the body called Jesus, you are supposed to worship his Perfect Father the Supreme-Being, as Christ himself told you to do. God is not a human, He is a "Being of Light" (soul). Therefore His Son (Christ) is not a human either but was the soul (Being) that was inside the human body from the virgin-birth. God is Spirit (energy/Light) and you must worship Him in spirit (with your spirit - soul) in TRUTH and love Him, as He loves you. JAH.

[nebula]

And the Christmas boxing match begins again!

[Guest shiloh357]

Verse 6: But this thou hast (in thy favour), that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes which I (Christ) ALSO HATE.

Verse 15: So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes (the followers of St.Nicholas - Santa Claus), which thing I (Christ) HATE.

The Nicolaitans celebrate Yule-tide (Christmas now) and Santa Claus (st. Nicholas) and decorate trees with silver, which thing Christ HATES, because it is Satanic and NOT from God or Christ, as he makes perfectly clear in the verses above.

That is complete nonsense. You cannot get St. Nicholas from the Nicolatians. The two are unrelated. The tradition of St. Nicholaus did not exist at the time John penned Revelation and so your assertion has no basis in historical fact.

Satan is a Hebrew word that means "the Opposer" - someone who does and says the OPPOSITE of what God says, telling and teaching others to do the opposite too, by words, persuasion and example.

Wrong. The word "shatan" in Hebrew means "accuser" not a opposer.

The decking of fir trees with silver and gold and placing presents (offerings) under them is also a pagan ritual condemned by God in the Bible in Jeremiah 10:2-4. Nimrod/Osiris/Horus is often pictured with wings, holding reindeer and a fir tree.

that is complete nonsense. What Jeremiah is talking about are those who cut down trees and carving idols from them. He is not talking about decorating trees at all. The word for "tree" is the same word in Hebrew for wood. And Jeremiah doesn't specifiy fir trees. He is talking about how that ancient pagans carved the wood from the trees into the images of their gods and then plated those images with gold and silver. In some parts of the world they even adorned them with expensive garments and jewlery.

You are trying to force modern Christmas traditions into the Scriptures and you are way off base. The tradition of the "Christmas tree" originiated in Germany during the middle ages. It has nothing to do with Babylonian or ancient idolatry.

Christ, the Spirit-Being that was placed in-side the body (IN-carnated not begotten as it has been misinterpreted) called Jesus, was not born 2000 years ago or even 2,000 millennia ago. He is, as he said, older than this planet and zillions of years old, being the first created by God (His oldest Son - Prince Michael - Dan. 10:21).

Michael is an arch angel. He is not Jesus. They are not the same person. Sorry, but that is false teaching and will not be received.

Think about it, folks! It's not just that "Santa" is an obvious anagram of Satan;

So cities in the US that bear names like Santa Ana, CA or Santa Cruz, or Santa Fe, Santa Monica, and Santa Barbara are actually bearing the name of Satan??? Seriously?? Santa is Spanish and means "Saint." It is not a anagram for Satan.

Also, if you take the word CONIFER, which is the name given to the family of trees to which the Christmas (Fir) tree belongs, and split the word in two, you get:

CON-IFER

CON - Satan is known as the biggest con-artist ever. He invented it.

IFER - The last half of Lucifer's name.

that is just ridiculous. I am embarrased for you that you would offer up such nonsense.

SANTA CLAUS WEARS SCARLET which Christ has told us is SATAN'S COLOUR (see Revelations chapter 12 verses 3+9 - the great RED dragon - SATAN).

Again, that is just reaching for something nonsensical. The Bible does not say that red is satan's color. You are just making that up out of whole cloth.

[other one]

Christmas Tree

(From Forerunner Commentary)

When you put up that tree, tack a wreath on the door, and maybe hang mistletoe from the lintel, what are you signifying? John Williamson, in "Christmas Greenery" in the Dallas Morning News (December 6, 1986), encapsulates the pagan origin of decorating with evergreens:

Evergreen trees were important fertility emblems for pre-Christian ceremonies marking the winter solstice. People from ancient societies believed that by decorating their homes and temples with evergreen plants, such as holly, ivy and mistletoe, they were helping to carry the diminished sun through a critical period. . . . Mistletoe was the most sacred plant of the Druids. . . . [it] was given great reverence . . . because it grows on the venerated oak. The custom of kissing under the mistletoe comes from the ancient idea that mistletoe is the oak's genitals. And so it was believed that an embrace under its glistening berries was sure guarantee of a fruitful union. . . . The decoration of Christmas trees is a survival of pagan tree veneration. . . . For centuries before Christianity, holly was . . . used . . . for celebrating their midwinter Saturnalia.

While all the greenery in a home decked out for Christmas is beautiful to look at, these customs have nothing at all to do with Christ. In fact, they are sheer paganism directly descended from ancient rites practiced long before Jesus' birth (see Jeremiah 10:1-5). Do you really want to give the impression that you are worshipping a tree? Or that you desire a fruitful union because you give someone a kiss under the mistletoe?

Mike Ford

So You Plan to Keep Christmas Now?

Two key figures in the origin of Christmas are Nimrod, a great grandson of Noah, and his mother and wife, Semiramis, also known as Ishtar and Isis. Nimrod, known in Egypt as Osiris, was the founder of the first world empire at Babel, later known as Babylon (Genesis 10:8-12; 11:1-9). From ancient sources such as the "Epic of Gilgamesh" and records unearthed by archeologists from long-ruined Mesopotamian and Egyptian cities, we can reconstruct subsequent events.

After Nimrod's death (c. 2167 BC), Semiramis promoted the belief that he was a god. She claimed that she saw a full-grown evergreen tree spring out of the roots of a dead tree stump, symbolizing the springing forth of new life for Nimrod. On the anniversary of his birth, she said, Nimrod would visit the evergreen tree and leave gifts under it. His birthday fell on the winter solstice at the end of December.

A few years later, Semiramis bore a son, Horus or Gilgamesh. She declared that she had been visited by the spirit of Nimrod, who left her pregnant with the boy. Horus, she maintained, was Nimrod reincarnated. With a father, mother, and son deified, a deceptive, perverted Trinity was formed.

Semiramis and Horus were worshipped as "Madonna and child." As the generations passed, they were worshipped under other names in different countries and languages. Many of these are recognizable: Fortuna and Jupiter in Rome; Aphrodite and Adonis in Greece; and Ashtoreth/Astarte and Molech/Baal in Canaan.

During the time between Babel and Christ, pagans developed the belief that the days grew shorter in early winter because their sun-god was leaving them. When they saw the length of the day increasing, they celebrated by riotous, unrestrained feasting and orgies. This celebration, known as Saturnalia, was named after Saturn, another name for Nimrod.

Martin G. Collins

Syncretismas!

In the seventeenth century, the English anti-Christmas attitude spread to her Puritan territories in America. In defiance of the Puritan attitude, the Catholic church established special Christmas services in Boston, Massachusetts, in the 1690s, but many civil authorities strongly opposed them.

By the early 1700s, German and Dutch settlers had brought the pagan custom of the gift-bringing St. Nicholas and the Christmas tree with them. Christmas was primarily celebrated in their settlements. German mercenaries, fighting on the British side in the War of Independence, raised Christmas trees in their camps.

In 1823 Santa Claus acquired national fame in the United States as a result of a poem. According to Man, Myth and Magic Encyclopedia:

St. Nicholas had become famous as a result of Clarke Moore's poem "The Night Before Christmas," published in 1823. By the 1890s the English Father Christmas, originally a minor character in a mummer's play, had been absorbed into the personality of his American counterpart, and become the jovial figure that he is today.

In 1836, Christmas first became an American legal holiday in the state of Alabama. Soon, one state after another legalized this pagan festival. Today, the U.S. celebrates this 4000-year-old festival as a national holiday with gift-giving and riotous, unrestrained feasting and drinking, in a manner similar to the celebrations in the ancient world.

Martin G. Collins

Syncretismas!

The date of December 25 to celebrate Christ's birth was chosen to conform to the old, pagan Roman holidays called "Saturnalia" and "Brumalia." The ancient Romans kept these holidays around the time of the shortest day of the year, the winter solstice. Here are some excerpts about this festival from The Book of the Bible by Riedel, Tracy & Moskwitz:

Because the Roman emperor Aurelian fixed December 25th for the winter solstice holiday in

AD 274, it is thought that the early Christians adopted this day for their Christ-mass so that they would be less conspicuous in the observance of their holiday.

Most scholars believe that the birthday of

Jesus

was never known and that the December date was chosen solely for convenience.

The earliest known observance of

Christmas

on December 25th was the year

AD 336 in Rome, as recorded in a calendar of the period.

Throughout antiquity other dates for the birth were advanced: March 25, April 19, November 17, among others, but there is no evidence, literary or historical, that supports any of these dates.

Almost everywhere in Europe, in both Roman and Teutonic [northern European] countries, the period around the winter solstice was celebrated with lights, to celebrate the increase of sunlight to come, and with greenery, usually evergreens, to represent the coming of spring and eternal cycles of growth. At the Saturnalia festival (December 17-24), Romans would present each other with sprigs of holly as gifts for the holiday. When Teutonic tribes began to usurp power from the Romans in Europe, they brought their Yule, or winter feast, traditions with them. The Yule log and wassailing (i.e., toasting each others' health with alcoholic drinks) are two of these traditions.

The origin of the Christmas tree is usually traced to Saint Boniface, who in the 8th century persuaded the Teutonic tribes to abandon worship of the sacred oak of Odin, a remnant of Druidism, and to confer it instead on the fir, a more appropriate symbol of Jesus and eternal life. [Trees, however, have been used in pagan, idolatrous worship for many thousands of years. Numerous references to this can be found throughout the Old Testament (I Kings 14:23; II Kings 16:2-4; 17:10; II Chronicles 28:4; I Samuel 40:18-20; 57:5; 66:17; Jeremiah 2:20; 3:6,13; 10:1-5; Ezekiel 6:13).]

Staff

'Tis the Season: Help for Our Young People

If we got

Christmas from the Roman Catholics, and they got it from paganism, where did the pagans get it? Where, when, and what was its real origin?

It is a chief custom of the corrupt system denounced all through Bible prophecies and teachings under the name of Babylon. And it started and originated in the original Babylon of ancient Nimrod! Yes, it stems from roots whose beginning was shortly this side of the Flood!

Nimrod, grandson of Ham, son of

Noah, was the real founder of the Babylonish system that has gripped the world ever since--the system of organized competition--of man-ruled governments and empires, based upon the competitive and profit-making economic system. Nimrod built the Tower of Babel, the original Babylon, ancient Nineveh, many other cities. He organized the world's first kingdom. The name Nimrod, in Hebrew, is derived from "Marad," meaning "he rebelled."

From many ancient writings, considerable is learned of this man, who started the great organized worldly apostasy from God that has dominated

this world until now. Nimrod was so evil, it is said he married his own mother, whose name was Semiramis. After Nimrod's untimely death, his so-called mother-wife, Semiramis, propagated the evil doctrine of the survival of Nimrod as a spirit being. She claimed a full-grown evergreen tree sprang overnight from a dead tree stump, which symbolized the springing forth unto new life of the dead Nimrod. On each anniversary of his birth, she claimed, Nimrod would visit the evergreen tree and leave gifts upon it. December 25th was the birthday of Nimrod. This is the real origin of the Christmas tree.

Through her scheming and designing, Semiramis became the Babylonian "Queen of Heaven," and Nimrod, under various names, became the "divine son of heaven." Through the generations, in this idolatrous worship, Nimrod became the false Messiah, son of Baal the Sun-god. In this false Babylonish system, the "Mother and Child" (Semiramis and Nimrod reborn), became chief objects of worship. This worship of "Mother and Child" spread over the world. The names varied in different countries and languages. In Egypt, it was Isis and Osiris. In Asia, Cybele and Deoius. In pagan Rome, Fortuna and Jupiterpuer. Even in Greece, China, Japan, Tibet is to be found the counterpart of the Madonna, long before the birth of Christ!

Thus, during the fourth and fifth centuries, when the pagans of the Roman world were "accepting" the new popular "Christianity" by hundreds of thousands, carrying their old pagan customs and beliefs along with them, merely cloaking them with Christian-sounding names, the Madonna and "Mother and Child" idea also became popularized, especially at Christmas time. Every Christmas season you will hear sung and chanted dozens of times the hymn "Silent Night, Holy Night," with its familiar "Mother and Child" theme. We, who have been born in such a Babylonish world, reared and steeped in these things all our lives, have been taught to revere these things as holy and sacred. We never questioned to see where they came from--whether they came from the Bible or from pagan idolatry!

We are shocked to learn the truth--some, unfortunately, take offense at the plain

truth! But God commands His faithful ministers, "Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and show my people their transgression" (Isaiah 58:1). Shocking as these facts are, they are the plain facts of history and the Bible!

The real origin of Christmas goes back to the ancient Babylon. It is bound up in the organized apostasy with which

Satan has gripped a deceived world these many centuries! In Egypt, it was always believed that the son of Isis (Egyptian name for "Queen of Heaven") was born December 25th. Paganism celebrated this famous birthday over most of the known world for centuries before the birth of Christ.

December 25th is not the birthday of

Jesus the true Christ! The apostles and early true church never celebrated Christ's birthday at any time. There is no command or instruction to celebrate it in the Bible--rather, the celebrating of birthdays is a pagan, not a Christian custom, believe it or not!

Thus the ancient idolatrous "Chaldean Mysteries," founded by this wife of Nimrod, have been handed down through the pagan religions under new Christian-sounding names.

Herbert W. Armstrong (1892-1986)

The Plain Truth About Christmas

Where did we get this mistletoe custom? Among the ancient pagans the mistletoe was used at this festival of the winter solstice because it was considered sacred to the sun, because of its supposed miraculous healing power. The pagan custom of kissing under the mistletoe was an early step in the night of revelry and drunken debauchery--celebrating the death of the "old sun" and the birth of the new at the winter solstice. Mistletoe, sacred in pagan festivals, is a parasite!

Holly berries were also considered sacred to the sun-god. The Yulelog is in reality the "sun log." Yule means "wheel," a pagan symbol of the sun. Yet today professing Christians speak of the "sacred yule-tide season!"

Even the lighting of fires and candles as a

Christmas ceremony is merely a continuation of the pagan custom, encouraging the waning sun-god as he reached the lowest place in the southern skies!

The Encyclopedia Americana says: "The holly, the mistletoe, the Yule log . . . are relics of pre-Christian times." Of paganism!

The book Answers to Questions, compiled by Frederick J. Haskins, found in public libraries, says: "The use of Christmas wreaths is believed by authorities to be traceable to the pagan customs of decorating buildings and places of worship at the feast which took place at the same time as Christmas. The

Christmas tree is from Egypt, and its origin dates from a period long anterior to the Christian Era."

Herbert W. Armstrong (1892-1986)

The Plain Truth About Christmas

Numbers 33:51-52 (Go to this verse :: Verse pop-up)

We should understand this in a religious sense since any representation of God changes Him from what He really is. Egyptians worshipped oxen, heifers, sheep, goats, lions, dogs, cats, monkeys, ibis, cranes, hawks, crocodiles, serpents, frogs, flies, scarab beetles, the sun, the moon, the planets, the stars, fire, light, air, and darkness. And they could come up with "good" reasons why!

A young man once said to me that he could see nothing wrong with the Christmas tree because he did not bow down and worship it. He misunderstood. Do we? The first commandment covers this particular aspect of idolatry. If one was bowing down to the tree, that would be what he was worshipping.

The second commandment has to do with the way we worship, in spirit and truth. Christmas—and its trappings like the Christmas tree—is not part of the way God commanded we worship. It is not part of the truth of God. Therefore, the Christmas tree is a component of an idolatry created when man desires to worship God as he devises rather than as God instructs. So he breaks the second commandment even though he never bows down to the tree.

John W. Ritenbaugh

The Second Commandment (1997)

Read more: http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/cgg/ID/504/Christmas-Tree.htm#ixzz1hQ1oIAdx

[nebula]

The custom of kissing under the mistletoe comes from the ancient idea that mistletoe is the oak's genitals.

That's enough to scare me away from anything to do with mistletoe!

[Guest shiloh357]

The custom of kissing under the mistletoe comes from the ancient idea that mistletoe is the oak's genitals.

That's enough to scare me away from anything to do with mistletoe!

Actually, that is not really accurate. The origin of kissing under the miseltoe came from the ancient Druids who believed that miseltoe was an aphrodisiac.

Two key figures in the origin of Christmas are Nimrod, a great grandson of Noah, and his mother and wife, Semiramis, also known as Ishtar and Isis. Nimrod, known in Egypt as Osiris, was the founder of the first world empire at Babel, later known as Babylon (Genesis 10:8-12; 11:1-9). From ancient sources such as the "Epic of Gilgamesh" and records unearthed by archeologists from long-ruined Mesopotamian and Egyptian cities, we can reconstruct subsequent events.

After Nimrod's death (c. 2167 BC), Semiramis promoted the belief that he was a god. She claimed that she saw a full-grown evergreen tree spring out of the roots of a dead tree stump, symbolizing the springing forth of new life for Nimrod. On the anniversary of his birth, she said, Nimrod would visit the evergreen tree and leave gifts under it. His birthday fell on the winter solstice at the end of December.

A few years later, Semiramis bore a son, Horus or Gilgamesh. She declared that she had been visited by the spirit of Nimrod, who left her pregnant with the boy. Horus, she maintained, was Nimrod reincarnated. With a father, mother, and son deified, a deceptive, perverted Trinity was formed.

Semiramis and Horus were worshipped as "Madonna and child." As the generations passed, they were worshipped under other names in different countries and languages. Many of these are recognizable: Fortuna and Jupiter in Rome; Aphrodite and Adonis in Greece; and Ashtoreth/Astarte and Molech/Baal in Canaan.

During the time between Babel and Christ, pagans developed the belief that the days grew shorter in early winter because their sun-god was leaving them. When they saw the length of the day increasing, they celebrated by riotous, unrestrained feasting and orgies. This celebration, known as Saturnalia, was named after Saturn, another name for Nimrod.

This is wrong as well. There is nothing in Egyptology that supports the above claims. The author also gets the myth wrong. Smiramis bore Tammuz. She did not claim she was impregnated by the spirit of Nimrod. Rather the myth is that Nimrod's body had been dismembered and cast into a river and Semiramis reassembled his body and had sex with it and was impregnated by the body of Nimrod and gave brith to Tammuz (no connection to Gilgamesh).

The claims about Semiramis and Tammuz being worshipped as mother and child and this being carried over into other pagan cultures is likewise false.

For example: Adonis was the child of Myrra not Aphrodite. Aphrodite convinced Myrra to comit incest with Theias who was her father. Myrra was later turned into a tree by Aphrodite and Adonis was born from that tree. Clearly the author doesn't know mythology very well.

That is just one example.

[other one]

The custom of kissing under the mistletoe comes from the ancient idea that mistletoe is the oak's genitals.

That's enough to scare me away from anything to do with mistletoe!

Actually, that is not really accurate. The origin of kissing under the miseltoe came from the ancient Druids who believed that miseltoe was an aphrodisiac.

Two key figures in the origin of Christmas are Nimrod, a great grandson of Noah, and his mother and wife, Semiramis, also known as Ishtar and Isis. Nimrod, known in Egypt as Osiris, was the founder of the first world empire at Babel, later known as Babylon (Genesis 10:8-12; 11:1-9). From ancient sources such as the "Epic of Gilgamesh" and records unearthed by archeologists from long-ruined Mesopotamian and Egyptian cities, we can reconstruct subsequent events.

After Nimrod's death (c. 2167 BC), Semiramis promoted the belief that he was a god. She claimed that she saw a full-grown evergreen tree spring out of the roots of a dead tree stump, symbolizing the springing forth of new life for Nimrod. On the anniversary of his birth, she said, Nimrod would visit the evergreen tree and leave gifts under it. His birthday fell on the winter solstice at the end of December.

A few years later, Semiramis bore a son, Horus or Gilgamesh. She declared that she had been visited by the spirit of Nimrod, who left her pregnant with the boy. Horus, she maintained, was Nimrod reincarnated. With a father, mother, and son deified, a deceptive, perverted Trinity was formed.

Semiramis and Horus were worshipped as "Madonna and child." As the generations passed, they were worshipped under other names in different countries and languages. Many of these are recognizable: Fortuna and Jupiter in Rome; Aphrodite and Adonis in Greece; and Ashtoreth/Astarte and Molech/Baal in Canaan.

During the time between Babel and Christ, pagans developed the belief that the days grew shorter in early winter because their sun-god was leaving them. When they saw the length of the day increasing, they celebrated by riotous, unrestrained feasting and orgies. This celebration, known as Saturnalia, was named after Saturn, another name for Nimrod.

This is wrong as well. There is nothing in Egyptology that supports the above claims. The author also gets the myth wrong. Smiramis bore Tammuz. She did not claim she was impregnated by the spirit of Nimrod. Rather the myth is that Nimrod's body had been dismembered and cast into a river and Semiramis reassembled his body and had sex with it and was impregnated by the body of Nimrod and gave brith to Tammuz (no connection to Gilgamesh).

The claims about Semiramis and Tammuz being worshipped as mother and child and this being carried over into other pagan cultures is likewise false.

For example: Adonis was the child of Myrra not Aphrodite. Aphrodite convinced Myrra to comit incest with Theias who was her father. Myrra was later turned into a tree by Aphrodite and Adonis was born from that tree. Clearly the author doesn't know mythology very well.

That is just one example.

I don't have the time to get into details, but there are a lot of scholars that disagree with you on this shiloh.

[voiceof1]

Thanks for your opinions shiloh357. Please see the replies to them below (still trying to learn how to properly use the quoting function, so please bear with the format).

Verse 6: But this thou hast (in thy favour), that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes which I (Christ) ALSO HATE.

Verse 15: So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes (the followers of St.Nicholas - Santa Claus), which thing I (Christ) HATE.

The Nicolaitans celebrate Yule-tide (Christmas now) and Santa Claus (st. Nicholas) and decorate trees with silver, which thing Christ HATES, because it is Satanic and NOT from God or Christ, as he makes perfectly clear in the verses above.

shiloh357: That is complete nonsense. You cannot get St. Nicholas from the Nicolatians. The two are unrelated. The tradition of St. Nicholaus did not exist at the time John penned Revelation and so your assertion has no basis in historical fact.

Nicolaitan means "a follower of Nicolas", a.k.a "St. Nick". ANYONE following the pagan Yuletide ritual is therefore a nicolaitan.

The word comes from two Greek words, nikos and laos. Nikos means "conqueror" or "destroyer," and laos means "people." That should hopefully help us see who is behind the Yuletide/Saturnalia, which has been cleverly repackaged and renamed "Christ-mas(s)".

Revelation 9:11 And they had a king over them, [which is] the angel of the Bottomless Pit, whose name in Hebrew [is] Abaddon (Destroyer), but in Greek [his] name is Apollyon (Destroyer - Satan).

So who was the original Nicolas? Some believe it was Nimrod, who God called "a mighty hunter before the LORD" (Genesis 10:9), because he was a conqueror who openly defied God. It is also interesting to note that Nimrod is frequently depicted with a fir-tree and reindeer in his arms and was known throughout Asia Minor as "Santa". December 25th is reportedly Nimrod's birthday, NOT the birthday of Jesus. So there is nothing innocent nor Christ-like about celebrating X-mas or decorating "O Tannenbaum", as the heathens do, just as we were told this LONG BEFORE THE BIRTH OF JESUS!

Jeremiah 10:1-4

10:1 Hear ye the Word which the "I AM" speaketh unto you, O House of Israel:

10:2 Thus saith the "I AM", Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

10:3 For the customs of the people [are] vain: for [one] cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

N.B. It is a historical fact that the book of Jeremiah was written approximately 600 YEARS BEFORE THE BIRTH OF JESUS and the Nicolaitans practice of decorating Yuletide/Saturnalia/X-mass trees was well-documented.

Satan is a Hebrew word that means "the Opposer" - someone who does and says the OPPOSITE of what God says, telling and teaching others to do the opposite too, by words, persuasion and example.

shiloh357: Wrong. The word "shatan" in Hebrew means "accuser" not a opposer.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan:

Satan (Hebrew: הַשָּׂטָן ha-Satan), "the opposer"

The decking of fir trees with silver and gold and placing presents (offerings) under them is also a pagan ritual condemned by God in the Bible in Jeremiah 10:2-4. Nimrod/Osiris/Horus is often pictured with wings, holding reindeer and a fir tree.

shiloh357: that is complete nonsense. What Jeremiah is talking about are those who cut down trees and carving idols from them. He is not talking about decorating trees at all.

Jeremiah 10:3-4

10:3 For the CUSTOMS of the people [are] vain: for [one] cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, WITH AN AXE.

10:4 THEY DECK IT with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

from http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/deck_3:

deck verb ( DECORATE )

Definition: to decorate or add something to something to make an effect

People don't carve or fashion idols with axes nor do they "deck"/decorate them.

shiloh357: The word for "tree" is the same word in Hebrew for wood. And Jeremiah doesn't specifiy fir trees. He is talking about how that ancient pagans carved the wood from the trees into the images of their gods and then plated those images with gold and silver. In some parts of the world they even adorned them with expensive garments and jewlery.

Where does it talk about plating (molten metal - see Exodus 32:4)? It specifically says they were "decked" as in "Deck the halls..."

And most importantly, WHERE DOES IT TELL US IN SCRIPTURE TO GO CUT DOWN (DESTROY) A TREE, BRING IT INTO OUR HOMES FOR A FEW WEEKS AND DECORATE IT TO HONOUR THE SUPPOSED BIRTHDAY OF JESUS?

Answer: Nowhere. Which is PROOF that it is a pagan tradition.

shiloh357: You are trying to force modern Christmas traditions into the Scriptures and you are way off base. The tradition of the "Christmas tree" originiated in Germany during the middle ages. It has nothing to do with Babylonian or ancient idolatry.

Then how is Jeremiah describing this centuries old tradition circa 600 B.C. please?

Christ, the Spirit-Being that was placed in-side the body (IN-carnated not begotten as it has been misinterpreted) called Jesus, was not born 2000 years ago or even 2,000 millennia ago. He is, as he said, older than this planet and zillions of years old, being the first created by God (His oldest Son - Prince Michael - Dan. 10:21).

shiloh357: Michael is an arch angel. He is not Jesus. They are not the same person. Sorry, but that is false teaching and will not be received.

Jesus was the human body that Christ (the Spirit-Being) incarnated 2000 years ago. Jesus died on the cross. Christ is an Immortal Being of Light. Christ is actually a title, which means "Anointed One", the same as Messiah in Hebrew. Christ's Name in heaven is Prince Michael, and He is God's Eldest (First-born) Son, just as God has told us:-

Colossians 1:14-15

1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:

1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

The "I AM" (God) is The King Ruler of the Universe and Prince Michael is His First-born Son and Heir to the Throne, which is why He is referred to as PRINCE Michael. This is confirmed in Scripture, as Christ/Prince Michael is the ONLY One Who can "break the seals" on the Book that He had Daniel seal:-

Daniel 10:21, 12:4

10:21 But I will show thee that which is noted in the Scripture of Truth: and [there is] NONE that holdeth with me in these things, EXCEPT Michael your prince (Eno. 67:1; Rev. 5:3; 5; 9 & 12:7).

12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and "seal" the Book (Rev. 5:1-5), [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and [evil] knowledge (1 Tim. 5:20) shall be increased.

Revelation 5:1-5

5:1 And I saw in the right hand of Him that sat on the throne a Book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals (seven in God's "Code" means ALL or COMPLETELY).

5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the Book, and to loose the seals thereof?

5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the Book, neither to look thereon.

5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the Book, neither to look thereon.

5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Source of David, hath prevailed to open the Book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

It is also Prince Michael/Christ that has warned us that these end times will be a time of trouble worse than has ever been or ever will be:-

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael [the Archangel] (Eno. 20:5; 36:1; 40:8; 58:1; 59:9; 57:1-2; 70:4; Rev. 12:7; Sura 2:98) stand up, the Great Prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the Book [of Life] (Rev. 13:8; 17:8; 20:15; 21:27; Sura 83:20).

Matthew 25:21-22

24:21 For then shall be great oppression, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the Elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Think about it, folks! It's not just that "Santa" is an obvious anagram of Satan;

shiloh357: So cities in the US that bear names like Santa Ana, CA or Santa Cruz, or Santa Fe, Santa Monica, and Santa Barbara are actually bearing the name of Satan??? Seriously?? Santa is Spanish and means "Saint." It is not a anagram for Satan.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anagram:-

An anagram is a type of word play, the result of rearranging the letters of a word or phrase to produce a new word or phrase, using all the original letters exactly once; e.g., orchestra = carthorse, A decimal point = I'm a dot in place,

...or in this case Santa = Satan

The fact that Santa is also a Spanish word that is used in the names of towns does not negate the fact that it is an obvious anagram for Satan.

Also, if you take the word CONIFER, which is the name given to the family of trees to which the Christmas (Fir) tree belongs, and split the word in two, you get:

CON-IFER

CON - Satan is known as the biggest con-artist ever. He invented it.

IFER - The last half of Lucifer's name.

shiloh357: that is just ridiculous. I am embarrased for you that you would offer up such nonsense.

There is absolutely NO question that Lucifer/Satan is the biggest con-artist ever and that he invented it:-

Revelation 12:7-9

12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon (Lucifer); and the dragon fought and his angels,

12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out to the earth, and his angels (you - Luke 9:55) were cast out with him (Matthew 25:41).

John 8:35 (8:44 KJV) Ye are of [YOUR] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the Truth, because there is no Truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father (inventor) of it.

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the Morning (Star)! [How] art thou cut down to the earth, which didst weaken the nations!

SANTA CLAUS WEARS SCARLET which Christ has told us is SATAN'S COLOUR (see Revelations chapter 12 verses 3+9 - the great RED dragon - SATAN).

shiloh357: Again, that is just reaching for something nonsensical. The Bible does not say that red is satan's color. You are just making that up out of whole cloth.

Revelation 12:3-4

12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great RED dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

12:4 And his tale (of lies - John 8:35 above/KJV 8:44) drew the third part of the "Stars" (ch. 9:1) of heaven (into his army), and did (cause them to be) cast to the Earth (for their treason against God): and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born (Christ - second coming).

All Scriptural quotes are from The King of kings' Bible

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