other one Posted April 13, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,260 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,988 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted April 13, 2012 Is it possible that they are just running him through the court system to legally clear his name, and get the world off his back?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning_Ember Posted April 13, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,009 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 100 Days Won: 3 Joined: 09/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 13, 2012 It involves a higher standard than that. Intent is needed for a second degree conviction. Special prosecutor Angela Corey likely has an uphill climb to prove that George Zimmerman acted with the malicious intent required to convict him of second-degree murder in the death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, legal experts say. Legal experts said the circumstances of the shooting suggest that prosecutors will have a hard time proving that Zimmerman was acting with a “depraved mind” when he pulled the trigger — the standard for second-degree murder. “Based on the available facts, it’s a huge overreach,” said Miami defense attorney John Priovolos, a former prosecutor, who said Corey will be hard pressed to show Zimmerman had “ill-will, spite, malice or hatred” needed to prove a “depraved mind.” http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/11/2743404/second-degree-murder-charge-may.html The prosecution probably wouldn't go for for 2nd Degree if they didn't think they could prove it. They have a lot more info than we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning_Ember Posted April 13, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,009 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 100 Days Won: 3 Joined: 09/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 13, 2012 Is it possible that they are just running him through the court system to legally clear his name, and get the world off his back?? He's probably not facing court until 2013. That's an awful long time to run someone through the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted April 13, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted April 13, 2012 OK, thanks for the clarification guys! Question: Trayvon was walking along the street, Zimmerman approached him, and then a scuffle happened. If Trayvon reacted because someone was following him from a car at night in the rain, and Zimmerman shot him in the ensuing conflict, that could very easily fit 2nd Degree murder. Unless Zimmerman was in danger of dying, considering that he walked into a police station that night with only first aid on site from the police and with no bandages, that'll be tough to prove. Have you heard any of the reports from eyewitness(es?). I heard from someone else wh listens more to the news and such than I mentioning that Trayvon was the one who initiated the physical conflict. Have you heard anything about this? Just seeking more clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Trayvon was walking along the street, Zimmerman approached him, and then a scuffle happened. That has not been established. There is eyewitness testimony that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and according to them, was the agressor. The media narrative is that an innocent black boy was just walking down the street and was hunted down by Zimmerman who was initially characterized as a racist and then shot by Zimmerman. That narrative is being shown to be false as more information comes to the surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted April 13, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted April 13, 2012 I have to ask about the self-defense and 2nd degree murder conflict. The original assessment was self-defense which is protected by law. Now he is charged with 2nd degree murder which is killing someone in a fight without premeditation. Where is the line drawn - self-defense vs. murdering someone in a fight? From what I've read sis a Prosecutor always shoots one charge higher than they actually want to achieve so that they have bargaining room both with the charged's attorneys and also the Jury or Judge. From what I saw in the media report the 2nd Degree Murder charge means that he actually instigated a dangerous situation that resulted in a conflict unto death but did not intend to murder. Self Defense would be if he were just walking along minding his own business and someone jumped him and he shot them and caused their death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted April 13, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted April 13, 2012 Alan Dershowitz; Zimmerman Arrest Affidavit "Irresponsible And Unethical" http://realclearpoli..._unethical.html "“Most affidavits of probable cause are very thin. This is so thin that it won’t make it past a judge on a second degree murder charge,” Dershowitz said. “There’s simply nothing in there that would justify second degree murder.” Dershowitz goes on to say this is nothing more than self defense. He has seen and examined the Affidavit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I believe I am a fair as possible. I am not for the black cause...for black this or black that. I don't buy into much of nonsense that is espoused by some of my peers and will call them on it. But I am not blind either...I am not that old but old enough to have had a few experiences in my lifetime. What great is these experiences have never made me blanket a whole community as this or that...something you did with your statement in the other thread. Funny you chastise me about this is a murder without knowing, yet you didn't fail to say that Zimmerman killed the kid in a struggle over a gun. Heh...fair and impartial huh. I would like to add that you deal with my post with some integrity, you still have yet to say that you were wrong or at least misread concerning that "agenda" comment. Any other time I would love to dig through your posts, but I am re-formatting and re-installing the OS on a laptop for the third time in two days and I have to babysit it because it's old and fickle. I said that Trayvon was killed in a struggle over the gun because . . . That was what at least 4 eye witnesses said. If you are going to keep tagging it murder when you don't know it's murder, that signifies an agenda. If you will remember, you said you knew Zimmerman was guilty when you saw a picture of him. . . There were 4 eye witnesses.....who put that info ou?. Oh yeah....thats what you heard from fox news, or the other "conservative" stations who are reporting the "truth".... :24: :24: PUUUUUUUUUUULEEEEESSSSEEEE. You are slaying me Cobalt. Also, didnt you say that you would point to my post where I was doing something or the other last time. This is twice now. Either drop it or show me. You are also not telling the truth. I never said such a thing...and if you go back to my post you will see I never said such a thing. I even explained and re explained it to you. As I said before you have been treating my post with no integrity. actually ruck, you are the one treating this like a murder and have been for the last week or more. You have no evidence but you went with the media spin, which is turning out not to be what was claimed, since NBC had to fire a reporter who doctored the 911 calls to make it look a racially motivated murder. You have been operating off the assumption of guilt in this entire thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted April 13, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,260 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,988 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted April 13, 2012 Is it possible that they are just running him through the court system to legally clear his name, and get the world off his back?? He's probably not facing court until 2013. That's an awful long time to run someone through the system. Well, when you have groups of people like the black panthers and the nation of islam who basically have a bounty on his head, it might be the only way of keeping him alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldzimm Posted April 13, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 85 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,874 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 348 Days Won: 12 Joined: 03/10/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/08/1955 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I believe I am a fair as possible. I am not for the black cause...for black this or black that. I don't buy into much of nonsense that is espoused by some of my peers and will call them on it. But I am not blind either...I am not that old but old enough to have had a few experiences in my lifetime. What great is these experiences have never made me blanket a whole community as this or that...something you did with your statement in the other thread. Funny you chastise me about this is a murder without knowing, yet you didn't fail to say that Zimmerman killed the kid in a struggle over a gun. Heh...fair and impartial huh. I would like to add that you deal with my post with some integrity, you still have yet to say that you were wrong or at least misread concerning that "agenda" comment. Any other time I would love to dig through your posts, but I am re-formatting and re-installing the OS on a laptop for the third time in two days and I have to babysit it because it's old and fickle. I said that Trayvon was killed in a struggle over the gun because . . . That was what at least 4 eye witnesses said. If you are going to keep tagging it murder when you don't know it's murder, that signifies an agenda. If you will remember, you said you knew Zimmerman was guilty when you saw a picture of him. . . There were 4 eye witnesses.....who put that info out?. Oh yeah....thats what you heard from fox news, or the other "conservative" stations who are reporting the "truth".... :24: :24: PUUUUUUUUUUULEEEEESSSSEEEE. You are slaying me Cobalt. Also, didnt you say that you would point to my post where I was doing something or the other last time. This is twice now. Either drop it or show me. You are also not telling the truth. I never said such a thing...and if you go back to my post you will see I never said such a thing. I even explained and re explained it to you. As I said before you have been treating my post with no integrity. actually ruck, you are the one treating this like a murder and have been for the last week or more. You have no evidence but you went with the media spin, which is turning out not to be what was claimed, since NBC had to fire a reporter who doctored the 911 calls to make it look a racially motivated murder. You have been operating off the assumption of guilt in this entire thread. Actually, I looked at the base facts which are facts, many of which you all agree on. You all admit that he was on watch neighborhood watch duty...yet he had a gun. We know he followed him, we know know the operator told him not too. These things not assumptions. There are other nuances, like the neighborhood watch guidelines. I think I clearly laid these things out. I never said he killed the kid in cold blood, or that he went into the situation with the intent to kill him. I do believe that by his actions he caused this kids death...hence murder. It may not have been intentional...but it still happened. Once again I have explained rather simply why I feel the way I do, and have not at all attempted to make this into a racially motived killing, or bought into that ilk. BTW Shiloh..I think I know why you addressed my comment the way you did. I never said I'm not treating it like the kid was murdered. I believe he was. I guess you though I was saying that I didnt say he was murdered in my last statement to Cobalt. I was addressing other issues with him. Don't know if that clears up my comment or not, but I just wanted you to get a slightly better understanding of it. Now Ruck you caused me to ask some questions. Is there really a law that says neighborhood watch can't carry a gun, or is it a list of rules that somebody made up? If a person can't carry a gun on neighborhood watch, isn't that in violation of the second amendment? Is it really illegal to follow a suspicious person in your neighborhood, even if the 911 operator says not? (grey area) There is no doubt Zimmerman killed Martin, but since when is self defense classified as murder? Wasn't Zimmerman attacked from behind? You keep calling Martin a Kid, is he really a kid if less then a year he could join the military? You make it sound like a seventeen year old can't do bodily harm, what makes Martin innocent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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