Killing And The Christian

[oldzimm]

Oh well, I guess I'm a criminal, shame on me for doing my part to preserve freedom.

Thank you for your service, and don't let anyone put a false sense of guilt on you for defending this nation. At the same time, you need to realize that some people have a misunderstanding of scripture when it comes to killing. Remember "Sergeant York." He had a real objection to killing, until he got into combat. He wasn't killing simply to harm others, but to save his fellow soldiers, as well as defend his country.

Oh well, I guess I'm a criminal, shame on me for doing my part to preserve freedom.

Old Zimm,

I am sorry to say you are wrong. You are not a criminal. Christ told us to obey the heads of our government and as a soldier you did just that. There is a big difference between murder and war (honest war... not raping and killing for the pleasure of it) Remember what Christ said on the sermon on the mount. It is all about the heart and the reasons behind the actions. God bless you.

I assure you I do not feel guilty nor am I ashamed for serving my country and God in time of war, matter of fact I would do it again. In the post you two are referring to, I was being a little sarcastic.

[The_Patriot21]

Exodus 22 :2

² “If a thief is caught breaking in at night and is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed; ³ but if it happens after sunrise, the defender is guilty of bloodshed.

So even in exodus, you get caught (at night obviously) breaking into a home, you were fair game.

1 samuel 25:13 king David told every man to take up their swords. . .

Judges 5:8 warns against disarmament:

"New gods were chosen; Then war was in the gates. Not a shield or a spear was seen Among forty thousand in Israel.

Jesus did tell his disciples in luke 22:36 to buy a sword

Luke 22:36: “Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.”

and before you bring up matthew 26:52-54, Jesus never told peter to get rid of it, but put it in its place.

Ecclesiastes 3:8 says there is a time to love, and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.

The Bible is full of people protecting their nation and their loved ones, everything from king David to Gideon, even Samson. Look at Kind David for instance-he was described as a man after Gods own heart, yet he probably killed more men then any other king in Biblical times (notice Im specifying king-Im not counting people like moses, or any of the judges) God used peaceful men like noah who never killed anyone-but He also used the man of war like king David. if David, who killed thousands, can be a man after Gods own heart, well then that alone in my mind tells me that there are indeed times where killing is justified. In fact, King david stood up to Goliath-who his brothers wouldnt, so you could say he was even protecting his family there.

There are times where God demands just our faith to protect our families, such as the passover in egypt-the Israelites were to have faith in God and show it by the sacrifice and blood on the doors, and let God do his work, yet there were other times like in the case of Nehemiah, where each man was given a sword and told to gaurd their section of the wall while rebuilding it. There are other times, like Gideon-where they were combined-the men of God had to be willing to go to war-and kill, and did, but had to do so knowing God would have to work a miracle because there was no way they could win without Gods help.

Genesis 14 tells about when several kings kidnapped Lot, and Abraham took all of his servants, and went and rescued Lot from the confederacy of Kings. he certainly prayed for Lot, but his prayers took action, he didnt negotiate, he didnt call the police, he didnt even say please, he took his servants and he went and forcibly rescued lot from the kings killing whoever stood in their path. If that isnt a clear example of family killing to protect family in the Bible, then I dont know what is. Furthermore, in verses 13-14 he specifies that the servants with him were trained-which means these just wernt just run of the mill servants, but servants trained for war. And he didnt just go and train them or hire them, he already had them and they were already trained.

The new testament does not dive a lot into self defense-nor does it need to, its all about Jesus and His ministry-weapons and their uses were already covered in the OT. Jesus did and said nothing in the NT to contradict OT teachings-and like in luke He even supports it (telling his disciples to buy swords) My point is there is a time to turn the other cheek in love, but there is a time to stand up and fight to. Jesus even knew timing-notice, there were several times in His ministry where He rebuked the pharisees and sadduccees and answered their teachings, yet when he was brought before Pilate, he did not. He knew when to speak up, and when not to. The same applies in every aspect of our lives, from speaking to listening to self defense.

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[oldzimm]

It is ANZAC Day in Australia and New Zealand, where we gather together and remember those who fought and died so that we could live in freedom. LEST WE FORGET. The freedom you enjoy, lesjude, was bought at a price. If you don't like it, move to some country where the military hasn't fought for your freedom, and see how you like it.

They went with songs to the battle, they were young.

Straight of limb, true of eyes, steady and aglow.

They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted,

They fell with their faces to the foe.

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:

Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.

At the going down of the sun and in the morning,

We will remember them.

LEST WE FORGET.

Excellent Post.

Jesus bled and died for the freedom of Christians. One of those freedoms is to be citizens in His kingdom which entitles us to His protection at all times. Please see Psalm 91. He also sets us free from worshiping a false religion, nationalism. He gives us the right and authority to be sons and daughters of the King by adoption which includes being conformed to the fullness and stature of Christ.

Who would Jesus shoot or have His citizens shoot.?

First off, Jesus doesn't have to shoot anybody, Jesus is God and God had nations do his biding (in war and peace) ever since creation.

Psalms 91 (most likely written by Moses) foretells of Jesus going through the temptation of Satan in Matthew 4.

Show us scripture (not your opinion) where nationalism is a false religion.

[grandma dolittle]

Oh well, I guess I'm a criminal, shame on me for doing my part to preserve freedom.

Thank you for your service, and don't let anyone put a false sense of guilt on you for defending this nation. At the same time, you need to realize that some people have a misunderstanding of scripture when it comes to killing. Remember "Sergeant York." He had a real objection to killing, until he got into combat. He wasn't killing simply to harm others, but to save his fellow soldiers, as well as defend his country.

Oh well, I guess I'm a criminal, shame on me for doing my part to preserve freedom.

Old Zimm,

I am sorry to say you are wrong. You are not a criminal. Christ told us to obey the heads of our government and as a soldier you did just that. There is a big difference between murder and war (honest war... not raping and killing for the pleasure of it) Remember what Christ said on the sermon on the mount. It is all about the heart and the reasons behind the actions. God bless you.

I assure you I do not feel guilty nor am I ashamed for serving my country and God in time of war, matter of fact I would do it again. In the post you two are referring to, I was being a little sarcastic.

[xero]

John 15:3 "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."

Matthew 5:44 "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;"

Hebrews 4:12 "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

Ephesians 6:17 "And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:"

Revelations 1:16 "And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength."

Ive been using the sword for awhile now to bring brethren to eternal life not to kill them. Christ is the Cornerstone and the stumblingblock: it all depends on how you read His Word as to wether you are building your knowledge of Him on the Cornerstone of faith or falling on the stumblingblock of the law. Choose wisely because wisdom is proved right by all of her children.

[Ladyhrtlovesu]

I proudly support those who have fought, bled, and died just so that I could live in a country with liberty and justice for all. Ecclesiastes chapter 3 does say that there is a time for everything; including a time to kill. I do not support murder. But should a time ever come when this great nation comes under attack and my liberties and freedoms already fought and died for are threatend, I will not hesitate to give my 100% support in defending it. To NOT defend this great nation and all it stands for, would be to allow everyone who has died defending this country to date, to die in vaine. And that, in my own personal opinion would be an even greater sin.

[taylor30]

I proudly support those who have fought, bled, and died just so that I could live in a country with liberty and justice for all. Ecclesiastes chapter 3 does say that there is a time for everything; including a time to kill. I do not support murder. But should a time ever come when this great nation comes under attack and my liberties and freedoms already fought and died for are threatend, I will not hesitate to give my 100% support in defending it. To NOT defend this great nation and all it stands for, would be to allow everyone who has died defending this country to date, to die in vaine. And that, in my own personal opinion would be an even greater sin.

I have a question. What defines defending a country? because I only see America going into other countries and occupying them in the name of OUR freedom and defense. I don't see any other countries trying to invade us like we have so many others.

[shodan]

Here is a letter I received after Easter re: Col. Don B. USMC, Retired

Dear Family and Friends,

How appropriate that as we celebrate Jesus' resurrection and victory over death, Christ has decided to call our Don home for the celebration! He is now in the midst of something so glorious, it is beyond our comprehension! As our heart's are breaking,they are also rejoicing at the thought of Don sitting down at the banquet table with Christ Himself, in awe of his surroundings, with a very large smile on his handsome face! That is how we choose to remember him, always positive, always caring, and always a loving husband, father, uncle, brother, and friend.

We thank all of you for your support and prayers.

Here is a book that grew out the time when we served together and my own Christian experience on the road of faith.

You can read about that time with the "Look Inside" feature here:

http://www.amazon.com/Christian-Pacifism-Fruit-Narrow-ebook/dp/B005RIKH62/ref=pd_rhf_ee_p_t_1

And if you want to learn more: here is a good place to begin, The Early Christian Attitude to War, free online:

http://www.compassionatespirit.com/Cadoux/TOC.htm

Edited May 2, 2012 by shodan

[oldzimm]

I proudly support those who have fought, bled, and died just so that I could live in a country with liberty and justice for all. Ecclesiastes chapter 3 does say that there is a time for everything; including a time to kill. I do not support murder. But should a time ever come when this great nation comes under attack and my liberties and freedoms already fought and died for are threatend, I will not hesitate to give my 100% support in defending it. To NOT defend this great nation and all it stands for, would be to allow everyone who has died defending this country to date, to die in vaine. And that, in my own personal opinion would be an even greater sin.

I have a question. What defines defending a country? because I only see America going into other countries and occupying them in the name of OUR freedom and defense. I don't see any other countries trying to invade us like we have so many others.

Oh I don't know about that, do you remember in your history class about a place called Pearl Harbor or more recently 9/11/01? It is better to take the fight to the enemy, we should do everything possible to keep our loved ones from seeing the horrors of war. War is a very ugly animal.

[The_Patriot21]

I proudly support those who have fought, bled, and died just so that I could live in a country with liberty and justice for all. Ecclesiastes chapter 3 does say that there is a time for everything; including a time to kill. I do not support murder. But should a time ever come when this great nation comes under attack and my liberties and freedoms already fought and died for are threatend, I will not hesitate to give my 100% support in defending it. To NOT defend this great nation and all it stands for, would be to allow everyone who has died defending this country to date, to die in vaine. And that, in my own personal opinion would be an even greater sin.

I have a question. What defines defending a country? because I only see America going into other countries and occupying them in the name of OUR freedom and defense. I don't see any other countries trying to invade us like we have so many others.

So, we should wait until they crash an airplane into one of our buildings? seems to me we already did that. How about wait until they launch a nuke at us. Im not trying to be rude but sometimes things are common sense, if someone has a gun pointed at you, its generally not wise to wait until they pull the trigger to do something about it. (im speaking metaphorically and literally here)