Infant baptism

[johnP]

shiloh357.

Of course you rely on the old canard about not listening to a person...

Is that why I said, "Charles Spurgeon is a great preacher...?"

...but God has given us teachers and people of great wisdom in the Body who he has annointed to reveal the truths of Scripture.....

Thanks for the lecture I know that. But you believe everything Spurgeon ever said?

We will EACH stand before God and give an account.

No we won't. Jesus took my penalty. Who makes a charge against the children of God? Rom 8:33.

We are not accountable for our children's rejection or acceptance of the Gospel.

Yes we are. For I told him that I would judge his family forever because of the sin he knew about; his sons made themselves contemptible, and he failed to restrain them. 1 Sam 3:13. A rejected progeny in the House of the Lord. Why else would it shock Israel so much?

That is the heart of the Gospel. What will YOU do with Yeshua? When you stand before God, the question will not be what your parents said or did, but what YOU said, and what YOU did with the gospel.

I stand before God at all times brother. I do not need to wait to hear what He has to say to me. There is no question, Jesus Christ died for my sins. It's good news not fearful. That is the heart of the gospel. He died for my sins. There is no coming judgement for the children of God.

EVERY man and woman, boy and girl must be obedient to the gospel.

Would you like to rephrase that. It looks like you are saying kids go to Hell. You say, "Every...boy and girl must be obedient..." Or what?

If you say children not yet reaching maturity will be saved then I win because you are making an exception. There are people in Heaven who did not make a choice. If you say that children go to Hell same as the grown ups then you lose. I wait on my 'Or what'.

Have you said yet if you think baptism is a replacement for circumcision?

johnp.

[Guest shiloh357]

EVERY man and woman, boy and girl must be obedient to the gospel.

Would you like to rephrase that. It looks like you are saying kids go to Hell. You say, "Every...boy and girl must be obedient..." Or what?

If you say children not yet reaching maturity will be saved then I win because you are making an exception. There are people in Heaven who did not make a choice. If you say that children go to Hell same as the grown ups then you lose. I wait on my 'Or what'.

No reason to rephrase it.

Every person, regardless of their physical age, once they are able to comprehend the gospel and their need for recieving Yeshua become accountable at that time.

Children who have not reached the point where they are able to make that decision are not yet held accountable and are held in innocence.

This does NOT help your position, because they are not saved because of their parents' decisions but are held in innocence because of their lack of comprehension. It simply demonstrates the justice and fairness of God.

Your arguement appears to be that a child can be saved by their parents choices and you are woefully empty of scriptural support. Your inability to provide ANY NT support only serves to show the utter hollowness of such a position.

BTW I have explained in earlier posts for the last day or so, what I think about baptism in relation to circumcision.

Neither are salvfific. One is performed on a Jewish child when He is born into the covenant of Abrhaham. The other is performed when one is spiritually born into the New Covenant. One does not replace the other, but they do correspond.

[johnP]

Hello KMB.

2 Kings 14:6b in accordance with what is written in the Book of the Law of Moses where the LORD commanded: "Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sins."

What's death got to do with life? I say that a man is blessed by his having his children included in his blessings you come back with death?

What's so bad in what I said?

But then what of Eli's sons? Did this throw you off. That I said that it was not absolute? We the parents are held accountable for the safety of our children. People need to hear that.

...If we are looking only at the OT law which you seem to put alot of focus on john...

I don't know why you say that. I was asking about what covenant is it that we must walk in and obey. The answer came back, "EVERY man and woman, boy and girl must be obedient to the gospel."

What?

Do you think baptism and circumcision have the same meaning?

johnp.

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE 

2 Kings 14:6b in accordance with what is written in the Book of the Law of Moses where the LORD commanded: "Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sins."

What's death got to do with life? I say that a man is blessed by his having his children included in his blessings you come back with death?

What's so bad in what I said?

The Scripture KMB provided shows that we are not included in our parents punishment, and by extension we are not included in their salvation. Obviously if a man is blessed in material goods, the children will reap benefit from it. That however does NOT apply where salvation is concerned. Every person will at some point in their life have to make a decision for Christ. You cannot ride eternally secure on your parents' coat tails.

[Orr v'emet]

Hello KMB.

2 Kings 14:6b in accordance with what is written in the Book of the Law of Moses where the LORD commanded: "Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sins."

What's death got to do with life? I say that a man is blessed by his having his children included in his blessings you come back with death?

What's so bad in what I said?

But then what of Eli's sons? Did this throw you off. That I said that it was not absolute? We the parents are held accountable for the safety of our children. People need to hear that.

...If we are looking only at the OT law which you seem to put alot of focus on john...

I don't know why you say that. I was asking about what covenant is it that we must walk in and obey. The answer came back, "EVERY man and woman, boy and girl must be obedient to the gospel."

What?

Do you think baptism and circumcision have the same meaning?

johnp.

I think the danger here that we are trying to point out is that using your way of thinking, there is no need for personal repentance and following Christ in obedience through baptism. We can ride on our parents coat tails as long as they believe. Like Called said, it ceases to become love and obedience and turns into slavery and domination. I'm sorry, I just don't serve a God like that. Besides, people can end up in hell with theology like that.

[Orr v'emet]

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[stevehut]

using your way of thinking, there is no need for personal repentance and following Christ in obedience through baptism.

Yup.

[johnP]

shiloh357.

...punishment, and by extension we are not included in their salvation.

Come off it! Who's 'extension' is that then?

You cannot ride eternally secure on your parents' coat tails.

That's a heavy weight piece of scripture! Where is that then?

Eze 37:25 They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children's children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers, and I will put my sanctuary among them forever. 27 My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be my people. 28 Then the nations will know that I the LORD make Israel holy, when my sanctuary is among them forever.' "

That's us that is. Spiritual Israel.

johnp.

[BobTriez]

shiloh357.

...punishment, and by extension we are not included in their salvation.

Come off it! Who's 'extension' is that then?

You cannot ride eternally secure on your parents' coat tails.

That's a heavy weight piece of scripture! Where is that then?

Eze 37:25 They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children's children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers, and I will put my sanctuary among them forever. 27 My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be my people. 28 Then the nations will know that I the LORD make Israel holy, when my sanctuary is among them forever.' "

That's us that is. Spiritual Israel.

johnp.

Are you saying that since my parents are saved, I have no responsibility at all ? That THEY are my salvation ? What about Acts 4:12 ?

God bless,

Bob

[Guest shiloh357]

shiloh357.

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