Infant baptism

[Can Do (Phil 4:13)]

WOW what a response to this thread :oww: I haven't had the time to read all the replies yet, but I want to add something of my own, if I may.

I had BOTH of my children baptised before they were 5 months old. For my husband and I, it was our responsibility that our children be baptised to prepare them for their lifelong service to the Lord.

We often forget that children have a very real ministry of their own. Often their personalities are used by the Lord to strengthen others and to bring joy into otherwise lackluster lives. By baptising our children, we not only prepared them for ministry, but made a public declaration to God and man, that our children belong to HIM who knew us before we were in our mothers womb. In addition to baptisim of our children, my husband and I also dedicated our children from the time we knew I was pregnant, when they were born, we reaffirmed that and gave our children 'back to the Lord' and I guess baptisim was the 3rd and final step. Our son gave his heart to the Lord two weeks before he turned 3 years old. There was no pressure for him to do so, just a true desire on his part to have Jesus in his heart.

What more can we do to show the Lord that we truely love the precious gifts that He has blessed us with, than to honour Him with the fruits of our bodies. :hug:

YSIC

Faithie :hug:

[johnP]

KMB.

...using your way of thinking, there is no need for personal repentance and following Christ in obedience through baptism.

This is the same charge made against Calvinism. I agree with it. I believe a man is saved by grace and not by works. I Really really believe that.

I believe the Holy Spirit makes His dwelling place in the heart of His people and He gives His people exactly what they need to get home. How He does that is up to Him to decide not us.

We can ride on our parents coat tails as long as they believe.

and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?" John 11:26. The parents can't die. Do you believe this?

Like Called said, it ceases to become love and obedience and turns into slavery and domination. I'm sorry, I just don't serve a God like that. Besides, people can end up in hell with theology like that.

I am aware of the danger of speaking falsely. I believe I should speak the whole counsel of God as I know it and this is as you believe. One of us is wrong.

Your view of love might need modifying. My love loves me and died for me as He did for all His people. Nothing can seperate His children from Him.

Do you think baptism and circumcision have the same meaning?

johnp.

[Guest shiloh357]

and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?" John 11:26. The parents can't die. Do you believe this?

It is up to each person according to that verse. It does NOT say, "the children of whoever believes in me will not die." "Whoever" is each person when they are capable of making the decision. Parents are irrelevant to your salvation when it comes time to decide for yourself. Their decision will NOT carry you. Their belief cannot save you, and their unbelief cannot condemn you, in the eyes of God.

[johnP]

Bob.

Are you saying that since my parents are saved, I have no responsibility at all ? That THEY are my salvation ? What about Acts 4:12 ?

AC 4:12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

Your parents were chosen by God and so were the children. If He uses a Christian to have a child that child was chosen by God before the creation as we were. Our responsibilty is to bring them up in the Lord. Eli did not. If they go off the rails then they will return. Pro 22:6 Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it.

Just make sure they are trained and they have cracked it. God does the work and we get the blessing.

...I have no responsibility at all ?

You have an obligation Bob. He died for us and lives for us. He is inside me and shows me what He did for me. The older I get the more sin I see the more sin I see the more I love Him for loving me and giving Himself for me.

What has love to do with responsibilties, they fetch judgement but love overcomes.

johnp.

[johnP]

shiloh357.

Your 'replacement theology' I've looked it up and taken the first result from Google;

http://www.bridgesforpeace.com/publication...Article-18.html

Does that sum it up? I'll go through it later.

Well extension seems to be at a loose end. Who owns this word?

...there is no "extension" regarding salvation...

...then neither is salvation granted to the children based upon the parents decision to be Christians...

Did I say based on the parents or did I say chosen in God? I might have done I can't remember.

We are each accountable for making sure OUR names are in the Lamb's Book of life.

Those that don't make it are accountable that's for sure.

No, that is not "spiritual Israel." There is NO SUCH THING as "Spiritual Israel" that is a man made concept. Nowhere in Scirpture is the Church EVER called Spiritual Israel.

Rom 9:6 It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." 8 In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring. 9 For this was how the promise was stated: "At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son."

The Church is the true Israel.

I haven't the time at the moment to go through the rest of your post. I'll try and catch up tomorrow. There is a gulf between us and we won't bridge it here. We should try to find some common ground.

johnp.

[johnP]

Hello Faithie.

It was good reading your post. You have a clear conscience I can see it sparkle.

What more can we do to show the Lord that we truely love the precious gifts that He has blessed us with, than to honour Him with the fruits of our bodies.

And the fruit of our bodies honouring us.

I have three kids. Two girls, 15 + 17, and a six year old boy. (I think I feel a boast coming on.)

I have dedicated all to the Lord and all gave themselves to Him when they were five. No pressure applied. The girls stopped their mum in town and prayed there and then, separated by two years.

I was present when my son asked Jesus all by himself, without prompting.

As far as I am concerned they could have been baptised there and then. But that would have come from us and I wanted them to come by it themselves. I don't think there is a problem one way or another.

My 17 year old daughter was baptised by me two years ago.

Often their personalities are used by the Lord to strengthen others and to bring joy into otherwise lackluster lives.

I told my son to make friends at school not enemies. He is now aiming to get his whole class back here to where he lives, in their one's, two's and three's. Girls and boys. The place is a madhouse. Kids everywhere. And Church talk happens in front of the mothers and with God's grace I may save some.

We often forget that children have a very real ministry of their own.

We are working the field together and putting ourselves about with what we have. The Muslim kids come in as well with permission from their parents. It's great, they bring us into close contact with the world.

The place is cluttered up by a collection of huge spotty boys from time to time. Boy friends! We tend to hit it off with them as well. We have a wide range of people to minister to.

It is a great life and I am very thankful for it. FOR I KNOW THE PLANS I HAVE FOR YOU DECLARES THE LORD. PLANS TO PROSPER YOU..... Bring it on Lord. Or more correctly, Amen.

johnp.

[Orr v'emet]

and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?" John 11:26. The parents can't die. Do you believe this?

I believe shiloh's comments address this well. I agree with him.

Your view of love might need modifying. My love loves me and died for me as He did for all His people. Nothing can seperate His children from Him.

I don't believe my view of love needs modifying. I think your interpretation of scripture is what needs modifying, respectfully. To say that salvation can come through my parents' salvation goes against scripture when it says in John 14:6...

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Do you think baptism and circumcision have the same meaning?

That's not what I'm trying to discuss here.

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE

[Work in Progress]

Every person, regardless of their physical age, once they are able to comprehend the gospel and their need for recieving Yeshua become accountable at that time.

Children who have not reached the point where they are able to make that decision are not yet held accountable and are held in innocence.

Sorry, Shiloh, but I emphatically[/] disagree. No way. There isn't a bit of Scripture to back this up. This has been fed to Christians for ages, as a "feelgood" doctrine IMO. It is directly contrary to Scripture. No offense, but I feel strongly that this stuff needs to be challenged and refuted because it's serious.

[Orr v'emet]

Every person, regardless of their physical age, once they are able to comprehend the gospel and their need for recieving Yeshua become accountable at that time.

Children who have not reached the point where they are able to make that decision are not yet held accountable and are held in innocence.

Sorry, Shiloh, but I emphatically[/] disagree. No way. There isn't a bit of Scripture to back this up. This has been fed to Christians for ages, as a "feelgood" doctrine IMO. It is directly contrary to Scripture. No offense, but I feel strongly that this stuff needs to be challenged and refuted because it's serious.

So your thoughts are????