Guest Butero Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 What a sensitive topic! I must say I do think there is a flaw in the argument of those who believe the only Godly course of action is to do everything humanly possible to remain alive. We all make health decisions every day, down to our diet, our decision to exercise or not, to take medications, and the more severe decisions... we make choices all the time that has real impacts on our lifespan. If we condemn people for not accepting health care that would extend their life, we also condemn those who make their own poor health choices (did you really need that slice of pizza) that shorten their expected lifespan. What about those who simply cannot afford the treatment to extend their life? Are we permitted to enter surgery knowing there is a real chance of death on the table? Because most surgery has small but real chance of death on the table. We really need to acknowledge that this is not a black and white area. I think there is a difference between active and passive choices, and I would struggle to make an active decision to end my life or help anyone else do that... but I have (with the rest of my family) made a decision to turn a life support machine off and I don't feel the slightest bit of guilt or condemnation for it. My two cents . I would use every means possible to save someone. I am not saying that everyone can afford to do that, but that is not the same as committing suicide, or asking someone else to murder you. This is not a grey area at all, especially when it comes to asking someone else to kill you. It is not the same as killing in battle or capital punishment. This is first degree, pre-meditated murder. Just because someone says it is ok to kill them doesn't make it any less murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Can this please stop? This sort of talk causes so much anger as well as resentment. Why is it when there is a disagreement in terms of issues be they biblical or otherwise the first words that are uttered is that one is or is not a Christian.... Gentle words turn away anger....harsh ones stir it up and cause it to well up inside another. Is there no way this matter can be discussed civilly? Actually, that is pretty much the truth. When someone uses putting down a pet or any animal as an argument for ending the life of a human being they are absolutely dismissing anything scripture has to say. Abortion is pretty much accepted now, along with gay marriage and now folks want the right to help people kill themselves when the suffering is too great. or in their opinion too great I do not believe in leaving someone plugged to a machine to keep them alive...someone in a coma who is kept alive artifically needs to be let go. People getting jumping up and down upset over the euthansia do not really believe that God is actually in control....if God is soverign and omniscient and omnipresent as Christians declare, then why does a mere human being think they have the right to do God's job for Him? IMO, so many people call themselves Christian but do not even know the basics of what they purport to believe I don't think this is a grey area...like I said, please do pull the plug if a machine is the only thing keeping a heart beating....does anyone really think God does not see or know about suffering? I haven't seen an abortion thread with this much vitriole. Probably because abortion is now so common, it is used like birth control Guess what? Allow euthanasia and people who are too old or of a certain age will be put down along with deformed people or children with Down's syndrome No one has to agree with me. But the personal attacks are ridiculous...being told I am judging whether or not someone is saved is way beyond anything I wrote. I would rather be wrong than emotionally abusive to people who disagree with me. However, I don't think I am wrong. You don't have to think, whoever you may be, that you are wrong, but personal accusations seem to go hand in hand with a certain way of making decisions and I don't want any part of it. I have in no way, shape or form stated I am in agreement with Euthanasia. Where do you get that idea? I have not stated it as grey area. How have I attacked you personally? All I asked was that we address this topic in a civil manner. Where did I say that? I didn't say that. I was replying to your reasonable request for civil dialogue...have you read LadyC comments to me? I am so fed up with people going bananas because someone disagrees with them. I was trying to explain to you that I voiced my belief strongly because I think that Ladyc was very aggresively trying to say I attacked her while she was actually doing that very thing to me. It's ridiculous. I have read the entire thread...thus the reason for my comments being exceedingly few.... Can only pray that things ease up or that the thread is closed as it seems there is no real conversation taking place..... There is nothing edifying in this thread in my opinion. That is because people are letting their emotions get in the way of being civil. Lets try to look at this objectively. In the case of suicide, some would question whether or not that is murder. Why? I guess because it is the person harming their own body and they think they have that right? There is no scriptural basis for this. It is just a libertarian mindset being brought into a religious argument. Then there is the question of a medical professional assisting a suicide. When that person intervenes, it is no longer suicide, but murder. If two people commit a crime, and one kills an innocent person, both are charged with murder, though both didn't pull the trigger. The one is an accompliss. There is nothing the least bit grey about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted May 14, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 14, 2012 That is because people are letting their emotions get in the way of being civil. Lets try to look at this objectively. In the case of suicide, some would question whether or not that is murder. Why? I guess because it is the person harming their own body and they think they have that right? There is no scriptural basis for this. It is just a libertarian mindset being brought into a religious argument. Then there is the question of a medical professional assisting a suicide. When that person intervenes, it is no longer suicide, but murder. If two people commit a crime, and one kills an innocent person, both are charged with murder, though both didn't pull the trigger. The one is an accompliss. There is nothing the least bit grey about this. I am in 100% agreement with the above. I never should have let myself become involved in an emotional diatribe against me. I know better and I am sorry I did that. Next time, I shall just report what I consider to be a personal attack., There is no room for ANY kind of human intervention in the business of life and death...THAT business is God's jurisdiction alone. I am sorry if I stressed anyone in my response, but I guess I was kind of shocked at comparing taking an animal's life because it suffers as compared to doing the same to a human being I don't have all the answers for sure...and I have some ongoing big questions for God...BUT, it is never right to play God at any time and just because people do, that does not mean it is right. Again, I apologize to anyone I have offended but at the same time, I strongly object to someone telling me to let God speak to my heart while they are twisting my words. That, is nothing but cheap manipulation and has no place in these forums IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted May 14, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.21 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 14, 2012 closed for review Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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