Fez Posted May 26, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Just a question, followed by some musing.... If a person is on full life support after a accident or dread disease, and can only "live" on life support, and pulling the plug will result in death...... Is it Ok to pull the plug? My thought is that the person is for all intent and purpose dead, and is being kept alive by machines alone, and man is keeping him alive. God has therefore already acted. The person is dead... If the plug is pulled and the person dies, freed from the machines, man was keeping them alive. If the plug is pulled and the person miraculously revives God has acted. Difficult subject. But I still think if it is a machine alone, God has already acted. I know this is an emotive subject, but when writing a will it could be very important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 If a person is on full life support after a accident or dread disease, and can only "live" on life support, and pulling the plug will result in death...... Is it Ok to pull the plug? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted May 26, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 26, 2012 I agree with man. Go has given each of us a certain amount of time on this earth. Man has tried their best to extend our time. I have a living (spoken) will to not be on life support if it meant to always be on one. Let me go home, is my thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted May 26, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 28 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,710 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 8,526 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted May 26, 2012 I would say its a difficult situation, because you read of those situations where people are on life support for 20+ years, the doctors say they will never come out, and they do-and if they had pulled the plug a long time ago they would have died. But on the same note. . .it really is a difficult call. Me personally, if Im on a machine, chances are I dont even know it, but I would hope they keep me on it as long as possible, but I wouldnt fault anyone for pulling the plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedByGrace1981 Posted May 26, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,923 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 462 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/02/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/22/1953 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Just a question, followed by some musing.... If a person is on full life support after a accident or dread disease, and can only "live" on life support, and pulling the plug will result in death...... Is it Ok to pull the plug? My thought is that the person is for all intent and purpose dead, and is being kept alive by machines alone, and man is keeping him alive. God has therefore already acted. The person is dead... If the plug is pulled and the person dies, freed from the machines, man was keeping them alive. If the plug is pulled and the person miraculously revives God has acted. Difficult subject. But I still think if it is a machine alone, God has already acted. I know this is an emotive subject, but when writing a will it could be very important. Very recently (within the last month) we had a family in our church face that very situation. On Sunday, "Bill" (not his real name) was laughing and joking. We had a special dinner after the church service (I forget what the occasion was) and Bill was in the kitchen, doing the dishes. My wife joked with him "would you be so kind as to show Ed how to do those.?" Later that night, he was rushed to the hospital by Life Flight (we're rural here) with what they thought was a stroke. It turned out to be much more serious - an aneurysm. By Wednesday of that week, a decision had to be made. The doctors said there was a risky surgery they could perform, but all they could say was the best they would be able to do would be to prevent him from getting worse. None of the damage done to his brain would be reversible. If Bill lived, he would be on life-support and basically a vegetable. Bill loved the Lord so his eternal fate was not in doubt. So the family made the heart-wrenching decision to not have the surgery, and to take Bill off life support. He passed on that Friday. When our pastor sent word out informing the Church body about the decision the family had made, he included this: Yesterday the family made the decision to remove the breathing tube from Bill. This was an agonizing decision but it was felt that based on the prognosis and knowing what Bill would desire the decision was made. Now it is a time of waiting until he passes into the arms of Jesus. I would ask that we all be supportive of their decision and not try to convince them if you happen to have a differing point of view as they all prayerfully considered the options and have wrestled greatly with the decision. So, let's just support them with hugs, words of sympathy and support, and with our prayers. I told our pastor I was very moved by his wise words - and I share them here in case it may help someone else to minister to a family in that situation. Blessings! -Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncn Posted May 26, 2012 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 6 Topic Count: 406 Topics Per Day: 0.09 Content Count: 5,248 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 1,337 Days Won: 67 Joined: 08/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted May 26, 2012 Just a question, followed by some musing.... If a person is on full life support after a accident or dread disease, and can only "live" on life support, and pulling the plug will result in death...... Is it Ok to pull the plug? It's a hard question and one that cannot be answered in my opinion easily. When a family sees a loved one in a situation of death or near to it, mechanisms kick in; emotional ones. I have Parkinson's and I know and am fully aware that it is degenerative. There is a very large possibility that one day I shall not be able to feed my self by swallowing and possible that I shall not be able to breathe unless assisted by a machine. Now, while I still have my mental faculties and the ability to decide; I have made a, "Living Will". I do not want modern day science to go that one step forward to keep my body alive at all costs. When the Lord calls me home it will be in His time and not the doctors. Until that time, I thank Him and praise Him for all the medical treatment that keeps me going; that gives me a quality of life. I could never advocate not taking medication that improves or contains a quality of life. However, there comes a point where science cannot and must not become God. "Is it Ok to pull the plug?" IMO yes and I would. Why? Because science can go just one step too far in keeping a body alive. I also so understand that some may disagree and find my post offencive; for which I apologize in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkPaws Posted May 26, 2012 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 93 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 72 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/21/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted May 26, 2012 Just a question, followed by some musing.... If a person is on full life support after a accident or dread disease, and can only "live" on life support, and pulling the plug will result in death...... Is it Ok to pull the plug? My thought is that the person is for all intent and purpose dead, and is being kept alive by machines alone, and man is keeping him alive. God has therefore already acted. The person is dead... If the plug is pulled and the person dies, freed from the machines, man was keeping them alive. If the plug is pulled and the person miraculously revives God has acted. Difficult subject. But I still think if it is a machine alone, God has already acted. I know this is an emotive subject, but when writing a will it could be very important. Very recently (within the last month) we had a family in our church face that very situation. On Sunday, "Bill" (not his real name) was laughing and joking. We had a special dinner after the church service (I forget what the occasion was) and Bill was in the kitchen, doing the dishes. My wife joked with him "would you be so kind as to show Ed how to do those.?" Later that night, he was rushed to the hospital by Life Flight (we're rural here) with what they thought was a stroke. It turned out to be much more serious - an aneurysm. By Wednesday of that week, a decision had to be made. The doctors said there was a risky surgery they could perform, but all they could say was the best they would be able to do would be to prevent him from getting worse. None of the damage done to his brain would be reversible. If Bill lived, he would be on life-support and basically a vegetable. Bill loved the Lord so his eternal fate was not in doubt. So the family made the heart-wrenching decision to not have the surgery, and to take Bill off life support. He passed on that Friday. When our pastor sent word out informing the Church body about the decision the family had made, he included this: Yesterday the family made the decision to remove the breathing tube from Bill. This was an agonizing decision but it was felt that based on the prognosis and knowing what Bill would desire the decision was made. Now it is a time of waiting until he passes into the arms of Jesus. I would ask that we all be supportive of their decision and not try to convince them if you happen to have a differing point of view as they all prayerfully considered the options and have wrestled greatly with the decision. So, let's just support them with hugs, words of sympathy and support, and with our prayers. I told our pastor I was very moved by his wise words - and I share them here in case it may help someone else to minister to a family in that situation. Blessings! -Ed Fez, thank you for starting this thread. Blessings. Ed, I can't fully express just how grateful I am for your post because mere words can't explain my gratitude. Nevertheless, please accept my sincere thanks. God bless you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted May 27, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.10 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 27, 2012 A machine can't keep anyone alive on its own. If it could, you could hook a person up to a machine, and they would live forever in their fleshly body. The way I see it, if they are dead already, then there is no harm in them being on a machine. They don't even know what is going on with their body. If they are still alive, then why not keep them on the machine, in the slim hope they may recover? Doctors have been known to be wrong. I would not pull the plug, but I feel for anyone placed in the position of making that decision. I have to echo your thoughts here, Butero. No machine can do anything that's not His will. And I pray that I NEVER have to deal with this! I think we should all have a living will because this has to be a living nightmare for the family involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldzimm Posted May 27, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 85 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,874 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 348 Days Won: 12 Joined: 03/10/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/08/1955 Share Posted May 27, 2012 A machine can't keep anyone alive on its own. If it could, you could hook a person up to a machine, and they would live forever in their fleshly body. The way I see it, if they are dead already, then there is no harm in them being on a machine. They don't even know what is going on with their body. If they are still alive, then why not keep them on the machine, in the slim hope they may recover? Doctors have been known to be wrong. I would not pull the plug, but I feel for anyone placed in the position of making that decision. I have to echo your thoughts here, Butero. No machine can do anything that's not His will. And I pray that I NEVER have to deal with this! I think we should all have a living will because this has to be a living nightmare for the family involved. A living will is the way to go, it makes a tough decision a little easier on the family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCE635 Posted May 27, 2012 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 95 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted May 27, 2012 If the patient is vegetative I would pull the plug. Sometimes they are in a respirator but "alive". I got a call one night of one of my patients family asking me what to do since the patient had pull the tube out. I told her to call 911. The paramedics came and did not entubaid her back. She was breathing on her own. That same morning when I went to see her she would not look at me. Normaly I got a nice smile from her. In my opinion she made the decision to either die or live without the respirator .Fez is right if God wants the person to continue to live he would do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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