speaking in tounges

[Sevenseas]

sevenseas, on 24 December 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

You are deliberately IGNORING what scripture plainly states in order to make YOUR point:

Acts 1: Then they returned to Jerusalem from the hill called the Mount of Olives, a Sabbath day’s walk^b from the city. 13When they arrived, they went upstairs to the room where they were staying. Those present were Peter, John, James and Andrew; Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew; James son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James. 14They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.

THEY WERE NOT PRAYING IN TONGUES! And, that was an occasion previous to Pentecost. Pentecost wasn't a continuation of what they were doing, but something new.

from Eben

Even though I said I was not going to respond to your posts anymore, I am responding because of your disregard for accuracy and what

is becoming increasingly and equally apparent, your desire to besmirch what you consider a gift not worth accepting

Listen, no one at all said that they were praying in tongues. The scripture says simply that they were praying and I never

said more than that. Do you really not see how much you are reading into what others post? This passage in Acts is not what

others have referred to when they wrote of prayer and tongues in the same post. You appear to be trying very hard to make a case, but when you cannot

accurately respond or refer to the posts of others, you only engender an argumentative type of response because no one likes to have their words distorted

and things attributed to them that they never said or meant.

Tongues is NOT for believers, but for unbelievers. Tongues wasn't for the fellow Galileans to understand among themselves but for the linguistically diverse unbelievers on the street to understand.

At no point did they remain secluded from unbelievers after they started speaking in tongues. They were speaking the languages of the unbelievers -- which should tell you for whom the tongues was for!

If their location was secluded from the public, as you seem to believe, then they must have immediately poured out onto the street when they started speaking in tongues -- because the people on the street heard them!

Tongues is most certainly for believers. Kindly give reference from scripture that says tongues are not for believers. Do you realize how silly

that sounds? Who should speak in tongues then, the unbelievers? Tongues is listed as a gift and since these are spiritual gifts, they are not

for those outside of faith in Jesus Christ and they are also not for those who refuse to be filled with Holy Spirit as were the followers of

Christ in the upper room.

Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

² Ye know that when ye were Gentiles ye were led away unto those dumb idols, howsoever ye might led.

³ Wherefore I make known unto you, that no man speaking in the Spirit of God saith, Jesus is anathema; and no man can say, Jesus is Lord, but in the Holy Spirit.

⁴ Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

⁵ And there are diversities of ministrations, and the same Lord.

⁶ And there are diversities of workings, but the same God, who worketh all things in all.

⁷ But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit to profit withal.

⁸ For to one is given through the Spirit the word of wisdom; and to another the word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit:

⁹ to another faith, in the same Spirit; and to another gifts of healings, in the one Spirit;

¹⁰ and to another workings of miracles; and to another prophecy; and to another discernings of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; and to another the interpretation of tongues:

¹¹ but all these worketh the one and the same Spirit, dividing to each one severally even as he will.

¹² For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of the body, being many, are one body; so also is Christ.

¹³ For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit.

¹⁴ For the body is not one member, but many.

¹⁵ If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; it is not therefore not of the body.

¹⁶ And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; it is not therefore not of the body.

¹⁷ If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?

¹⁸ But now hath God set the members each one of them in the body, even as it pleased him.

¹⁹ And if they were all one member, where were the body?

²⁰ But now they are many members, but one body.

²¹ And the eye cannot say to the hand, I have no need of thee: or again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

²² Nay, much rather, those members of the body which seem to be more feeble are necessary:

²³ and those parts of the body, which we think to be less honorable, upon these we bestow more abundant honor; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness;

²⁴ whereas our comely parts have no need: but God tempered the body together, giving more abundant honor to that part which lacked;

²⁵ that there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

²⁶ And whether one member suffereth, all the members suffer with it; or one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.

²⁷ Now ye are the body of Christ, and severally members thereof.

²⁸ And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, divers kinds of tongues.

²⁹ Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

³⁰ have all gifts of healings? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

³¹ But desire earnestly the greater gifts. And moreover a most excellent way show I unto you.

I Corinthians 12

The above is scripture and in this chapter, the gifts of the spirit of God are explained and named. If a person refuses to believe

that God still does and desires to dispense gifts according to His will, then they are basically denying that the Bible contains

only truth and is inspired and is from God to us.

Go ahead and continue to say the above is not true, but understand that your argument is with God and no one in this forum.

Saying the gifts are not for today is calling God a liar. God has not changed and the gifts are for today as much as salvation

is for today. This will continue until God decides that time is up and neither salvation or spiritual gifts will, at that time, continue.

That, will be when that which is perfect is come. We are not there yet and the proof that we are not there yet (for those

who refuse to acknowledge that Paul saw through a glass darkly and said we had not yet arrived at perfection) is that your

faith is not perfected. You do NOT believe all that the Bible says and therefore, you are not in perfection. For those who

do believe all that the Bible says, we are not made perfect either because we have not yet seen our savior face to face.

The definition of witnessing is telling others about God, and that's exactly what they were doing. It is you who make up that they were praying in tongues.

Again, I never wrote that anyone was praying in tongues. You can rewrite that until the sun sets...I never said that those gathered in the upper room

were praying in tongues. I wrote more than once, that they were waiting to receive the Holy Spirit. Interestingly, most people...in fact everyone I have

ever spoken to or even written to in a forum or email, will acknowledge that which I actually write and not go off in all directions trying to make me

say something I never said. I don't know why you are doing that.

STOP IT! Stop making up stuff! The people heard them right away, when this sound occurred! And, they heard this BEFORE Peter spoke (not "went out" as you say, but he STOOD UP.). Peter was explaining what was happening If you would stop trying to twist thew Bible to make it support your false experiences, I wouldn't have to explain any of this to you because you can read it clearly yourself!

Oh my. I never mentioned any experiences I may or may not have had to you. It begins to appear that your only real defense in light of scripture which

refutes your words, is to state that I have a false experience.

Have you contributed anything useful to this forum since you came on board or do you just rewrite what others state to suit your

own purposes?

I doubt you will acknowledge that you have twisted my words and rewritten scripture, but this time, it is my last response for all

of the above reasons.

Sorry I find it very difficult to constantly try to correct misinformation especially when no apparent attempt at understanding is actually

being given. I will be happy to discuss with you at such a time as you stop mis -quoting me and telling me what I think and saying

my experience is false even thought I never said anything to you about any experience I may have had.

[allofgrace]

You shall receive power after the Holy Spirit is come on you and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria and to the uttermost parts of the earth. Tongues happened at Pentecost, in Acts to show that Gentiles had been given the same gift as the Jews at Cornelius house and in chapter 19 in Ephesus. It is not mentioned again in the book of Acts and only in the letter to the Corinthians.

1 Cor 12:7-11 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

One body, many members and no where as I recall does it say everyone has the same gift(s). 1 Cor 12:29-30 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?

The obvious answer is no, everybody does not have any these gifts, so on the post of tongues, if only some have been given this spiritual gift by the Holy Spirit who distributes them individually as He wills(1Cor12:11) would that mean that only some would enjoy this prayer language? Don't say they got it by faith, because the text says the Holy Spirit distributes gifts individually as He wills, and they are for the building up of the whole body.

Edited December 24, 2012 by allofgrace

[Sevenseas]

Following is not written to anyone in particular but go ahead and read it if you want:

For me, the issue is not speaking in tongues. What I am concerned about, is the hostility that a good number of people seem

to have towards that gift in particular.

I grew up in a church that viewed tongues as demonic and did not practice any sort of spirituality whatsoever other than the obvious'

physical behavior a Christian should exhibit...like how you speak, dress or behave...and none of those were taken to the extremes.

I actually had a very good experience in that church, where I was saved at five, and they had a good knowledge of scripture and

basically were a body of believers that preached the word, cared about others and did visitation...in homes, hospitals...prison all

of those things that accompany faith as 'good works'

However, as they did not teach on the gifts and in fact avoided the subject altogether, they also did not teach on false teachers

or prophets or how scripture can be distorted.

The Bible cannot be half a book...ALL of it is true.

I have heard, or most likely have heard, every objection to the gifts there is and I know how some believe that the written word is

that which is perfect, yet, contained within that very book, are the words of Paul telling us that we see as though through a dark

glass...which means our vision is distorted.

When I was about 18, I read a book that wrote of the experience of a married couple that decided to seek the Lord for themself

about whether or not the gifts were real. They did so and found that God showed them both in demonstration and experience,

that indeed, He still dispenses the gifts upon whom He will and how He will. At the end of the book, there was a simple invitation

to pray yourself if you desired to be filled with the Holy Spirit and to speak in tongues.

I prayed immediately and immediately began to speak in tongues. I thought my life was going to be perfect from then on (well,

I was just 18 and pretty sheltered) but of course that was not so. However, I have had many times the truth brought home to me

that the gifts are real and speaking in tongues is just one of them.

I am thankful to those of you that question or even disbelieve as long as you do so respectfully. Speaking in tongues does not

make you more saved and it does not make you a better Christian. However, throwing genuine gifts back in the face of other

believers is not profitable.....yes, there are the fakes, but that is not a reason to throw out the genuine

I guess in the end, God proves each and every heart by the hunger with which that heart seeks the One who created it

[OneLight]

Hi OneLight

We may both be wrong but one thingis for sure, we both can't be right on the tongues question. My understanding is that the "perfect" in I Cor.13 does not refer to the 2nd coming of Jesus but rather the completion of the writing of the NT. The word "perfect" to my knowledge was not translated with the capital Perfect. This indicates very strongly that none of the translaters of any version understood the "perfect" to mean the 2nd coming of Christ.

Then if it is the NT, how come the rest of the verse continues? You see, if one has to cease, all have to cease. What about prophecies and knowledge? Why are they still around??

1 Corinthians 13:8

Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away

[webb]

Hi OneLight

Its my understanding that what you mentioned (prophecies and knowledge) were of the miraculous gifts of the Spirit found in I Cor.12. In absense of the completed (perfect) NT scripture, miraculous gifts of the Spirit were given to certain ones in the 1st century. The NT was not complete, only in process of being revealed to inspired men. It was being given in part. In absense of the completed word, which when complete was "perfect" (note the lower-case p). These gifts it seems were given others through the apostles. When the completed NT was a reality the need for the supernatural gifts was no longer and ceased. I know of no prophecies being given today.

[AlexanderJ]

Hi OneLight

Its my understanding that what you mentioned (prophecies and knowledge) were of the miraculous gifts of the Spirit found in I Cor.12. In absense of the completed (perfect) NT scripture, miraculous gifts of the Spirit were given to certain ones in the 1st century. The NT was not complete, only in process of being revealed to inspired men. It was being given in part. In absense of the completed word, which when complete was "perfect" (note the lower-case p). These gifts it seems were given others through the apostles. When the completed NT was a reality the need for the supernatural gifts was no longer and ceased. I know of no prophecies being given today.

How could you possibly prove that the Word is complete?

[webb]

Thank you Eisleben for your post #448. Clear, reasonable and most of all from the scriptural standpoint.

[gdemoss]

Hi OneLight

We may both be wrong but one thingis for sure, we both can't be right on the tongues question. My understanding is that the "perfect" in I Cor.13 does not refer to the 2nd coming of Jesus but rather the completion of the writing of the NT. The word "perfect" to my knowledge was not translated with the capital Perfect. This indicates very strongly that none of the translaters of any version understood the "perfect" to mean the 2nd coming of Christ.

What is perfect that is still yet to come?

Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.

[OneLight]

Hi OneLight

Its my understanding that what you mentioned (prophecies and knowledge) were of the miraculous gifts of the Spirit found in I Cor.12. In absense of the completed (perfect) NT scripture, miraculous gifts of the Spirit were given to certain ones in the 1st century. The NT was not complete, only in process of being revealed to inspired men. It was being given in part. In absense of the completed word, which when complete was "perfect" (note the lower-case p). These gifts it seems were given others through the apostles. When the completed NT was a reality the need for the supernatural gifts was no longer and ceased. I know of no prophecies being given today.

I have seen some stretching my friend, but this has to be one of the largest stretch I have come across. Through the Holy Spirit we are given understanding of what is in scripture. Nowhere will you find in scripture were we are told that He will teach us a little here and a little there. We are told He will teach us all truth, if we are willing to listen.

The gifts are not given by the Apostles, but by the Holy Spirit Himself. You are under the wrong understanding believing the Apostles gave the gifts.

1 Corinthians 12:11

But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

I am pretty sure that you are relying on certain doctrine your denomination has taught you in the past. You should honor His word by researching this to the fullest and not just take a persons word for it. The gifts remain until we are with Him.

[webb]

Of course the miraculous gifts were given by the Spirit (I Cor.12:7), tongues were one of the gifts, and such gifts were given by the Spirit by the laying on of the apostles hands, note the Samaritans of Acts 8. The apostles had the baptism of the Holy Spirit.