Paradigm Shift in Bible Prophecy in 400 yrs

[soldier2]

In 1540, Luther wrote:

"Oh Christ, my Lord, look down upon us and bring upon us thy day of judgment, and destroy the brood of Satan in Rome. There sits the Man, of whom the apostle Paul wrote (2 Thess 2:3-4) that he will oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God - that man of Sin, that Son of Perdition... he suppresses the Law of God and exalts his commandments above the commandments of God." (Froom, Vol.2, p.281)

Do Protestant churches teach that today?

I'd hope not. It is not recommended preaching.

Amo 5:18 ¶ Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end [is] it for you? the day of the LORD [is] darkness, and not light.

Gary

So just to be clear, Martin Luther and all the Reformers were wrong?

And there is a church today that contines in the teaching of the Reformers. It is a worldwide church just as the Roman Church is.

The reformers were wrong in many things. They were part of the 'awakening' that began the reformation. They were not the be all end all of the finished reform. The church, according to scripture, failed in becoming reformed and actually following Christ and therefore God is going to put them away and return to Judah, raising up the 144,000 to finish bringing in the kingdom. The reformers only accomplished establishing the 2nd of two golden calves called Protestantism.

Gary

So did the Reformers die and give up their lives teaching error and falsehood?

They died and gave up their lives for a 'purer' form of Christianity that was heading in the right direction as it exited the Catholic Church.

Mar 9:38-40 ¶ And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part.

Gary

You said earlier that they were wrong in many things, but now you are saying they died for a purer form of Christianity?

Protestantism today have completely reversed everything they taught.

But this is a fact that the counterfeit always come after the genuine.

What the Reformers taught was truth. What is taught today by the majority of Protestants is the counterfeit and "laughable" according to the RC Church.

[gdemoss]

In 1540, Luther wrote:

"Oh Christ, my Lord, look down upon us and bring upon us thy day of judgment, and destroy the brood of Satan in Rome. There sits the Man, of whom the apostle Paul wrote (2 Thess 2:3-4) that he will oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God - that man of Sin, that Son of Perdition... he suppresses the Law of God and exalts his commandments above the commandments of God." (Froom, Vol.2, p.281)

Do Protestant churches teach that today?

I'd hope not. It is not recommended preaching.

Amo 5:18 ¶ Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end [is] it for you? the day of the LORD [is] darkness, and not light.

Gary

So just to be clear, Martin Luther and all the Reformers were wrong?

And there is a church today that contines in the teaching of the Reformers. It is a worldwide church just as the Roman Church is.

The reformers were wrong in many things. They were part of the 'awakening' that began the reformation. They were not the be all end all of the finished reform. The church, according to scripture, failed in becoming reformed and actually following Christ and therefore God is going to put them away and return to Judah, raising up the 144,000 to finish bringing in the kingdom. The reformers only accomplished establishing the 2nd of two golden calves called Protestantism.

Gary

So did the Reformers die and give up their lives teaching error and falsehood?

They died and gave up their lives for a 'purer' form of Christianity that was heading in the right direction as it exited the Catholic Church.

Mar 9:38-40 ¶ And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part.

Gary

You said earlier that they were wrong in many things, but now you are saying they died for a purer form of Christianity?

Protestantism today have completely reversed everything they taught.

But this is a fact that the counterfeit always come after the genuine.

What the Reformers taught was truth. What is taught today by the majority of Protestants is the counterfeit and "laughable" according to the RC Church.

Agreed that that which is counterfeit always comes after the genuine. SDA's are not the original Nor are the reformers. The reformers swung on the pendulum from leaving the counterfeit that came from the original but swung way to far to the other side in a knee jerk reaction. Though they were able to remove some of the filth of the RC, they fell short of the mark. Hence why I said 'purer'.

The Church was brought into bondage unto the RC after the long suffering of God expired when his warnings went unheeded by the churches, until the time of the reformation. The RC has been given 400 years to repent of their wickedness since. Protestantism developed into another golden calf and both are extremely polluted including SDA's. God is going to divorce them all here shortly except for a small remnant who will accompany the Jews as God returns unto them and awakes them from their slumber.

The reformation is over. It failed.

Gary

[nebula]

If you read the latest book from Tom Horn, you might find that not all have drifted away from watching the Papacy for the end times....

I know its not all. But why have most changed?

People interpret End Times prophecies via the lens of current news.

[soldier2]

Agreed that that which is counterfeit always comes after the genuine. SDA's are not the original Nor are the reformers. The reformers swung on the pendulum from leaving the counterfeit that came from the original but swung way to far to the other side in a knee jerk reaction. Though they were able to remove some of the filth of the RC, they fell short of the mark. Hence why I said 'purer'.

The Church was brought into bondage unto the RC after the long suffering of God expired when his warnings went unheeded by the churches, until the time of the reformation. The RC has been given 400 years to repent of their wickedness since. Protestantism developed into another golden calf and both are extremely polluted including SDA's. God is going to divorce them all here shortly except for a small remnant who will accompany the Jews as God returns unto them and awakes them from their slumber.

The reformation is over. It failed.

Gary

My friend the Reformers did not come with anything new. They were part of God's Church which began in Eden and will continue till the end of time and beyond this life.

Regarding the "remnant" -

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Regarding the Reformation being a failure-

Revelation 16:4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.

Revelation 16:5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.

Revelation 16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

This is what will happen to those that killed the Reformers, not only the RC Church that did the act, but the thousands of her daughters who adhere to her mark which is sunday worship.

You better believe that most of plagues that fell in Egypt, will fall on this earth after the mark of the beast (sunday worship) is enforced by law.

And there will also be no Secret Rapture or 7yr Tribulation, and the Reformers did not teach that either.

Edited November 3, 2012 by soldier2

[Guest]

My friend the Reformers did not come with anything new. They were part of God's Church which began in Eden and will continue till the end of time and beyond this life.

Regarding the "remnant" -

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

You Do Know This Is His Israel

And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revelation 12:13-17

Their KING Jesus Is Telling Us About

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS. Matthew 1:23-25

And Not Some Gentles?

Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: Romans 9:27

[gdemoss]

Agreed that that which is counterfeit always comes after the genuine. SDA's are not the original Nor are the reformers. The reformers swung on the pendulum from leaving the counterfeit that came from the original but swung way to far to the other side in a knee jerk reaction. Though they were able to remove some of the filth of the RC, they fell short of the mark. Hence why I said 'purer'.

The Church was brought into bondage unto the RC after the long suffering of God expired when his warnings went unheeded by the churches, until the time of the reformation. The RC has been given 400 years to repent of their wickedness since. Protestantism developed into another golden calf and both are extremely polluted including SDA's. God is going to divorce them all here shortly except for a small remnant who will accompany the Jews as God returns unto them and awakes them from their slumber.

The reformation is over. It failed.

Gary

My friend the Reformers did not come with anything new. They were part of God's Church which began in Eden and will continue till the end of time and beyond this life.

Regarding the "remnant" -

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Regarding the Reformation being a failure-

Revelation 16:4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.

Revelation 16:5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.

Revelation 16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

This is what will happen to those that killed the Reformers, not only the RC Church that did the act, but the thousands of her daughters who adhere to her mark which is sunday worship.

You better believe that most of plagues that fell in Egypt, will fall on this earth after the mark of the beast (sunday worship) is enforced by law.

And there will also be no Secret Rapture or 7yr Tribulation, and the Reformers did not teach that either.

Did you have some sort of point here? The mark of the beast is Sunday worship? OK, your pretty far off the beaten path.

Gary

[yono]

In answer to why the paradigm shift exists, I would ask why any paradigm shift take place? The answer is probably that people get bored of the same thing, new thinkers arise to resurrect old stuff, and the cycle continues. Mood is a determining factor with Christian eschatology, too. People look around to see how good or bad the world is and then decide which view makes sense in light of that. Prior to WWI people tended to opt for postmillennial positions due to their optimism. After the Great War people turned pessimistic and consequently became premillennial. During the 1970's and 80's Evangelicals felt more in control politically, so the language used to discuss the already/not yet phenomenon took on a more postmillennial tone once again. Another factor responsible for eschatological positions is one's theological background (at least in denominations where the founder's position continued due to sociological reinforcement and cohesion). I think here of Lutheranism which has mostly been Amillennial from the start, and the Reformed and Presbyterian churches, many of which have always been Amillennial. The introduction of Bible colleges brings another factor to the table. Many colleges and seminaries indoctrinate. The school you graduated from may have taught you an eschatological position and told you why that one was the correct one! John Walvoord did much to strengthen Dispensationalism and Premillennialism at Dallas Seminary, to provide one such example. Finally, it is important to realize that Christian ideas go through cycles like all others.

[Guest]

In answer to why the paradigm shift exists, I would ask why any paradigm shift take place? The answer is probably that people get bored of the same thing, new thinkers arise to resurrect old stuff, and the cycle continues. Mood is a determining factor with Christian eschatology, too. People look around to see how good or bad the world is and then decide which view makes sense in light of that. Prior to WWI people tended to opt for postmillennial positions due to their optimism. After the Great War people turned pessimistic and consequently became premillennial. During the 1970's and 80's Evangelicals felt more in control politically, so the language used to discuss the already/not yet phenomenon took on a more postmillennial tone once again. Another factor responsible for eschatological positions is one's theological background (at least in denominations where the founder's position continued due to sociological reinforcement and cohesion). I think here of Lutheranism which has mostly been Amillennial from the start, and the Reformed and Presbyterian churches, many of which have always been Amillennial. The introduction of Bible colleges brings another factor to the table. Many colleges and seminaries indoctrinate. The school you graduated from may have taught you an eschatological position and told you why that one was the correct one! John Walvoord did much to strengthen Dispensationalism and Premillennialism at Dallas Seminary, to provide one such example. Finally, it is important to realize that Christian ideas go through cycles like all others.

~

Rock Solid

Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. Luke 21:33

~

The

And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

If any man have an ear, let him hear. Revelation 13:4-9

Founder's

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; Revelation 1:1(a-c)

Position

And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. Revelation 13:14-18

So Why Would Some Folk Add The Worship Of Jesus On Sunday (Or On Any Day~!)

To The Mark Of The Beast?

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. Revelation 22:16-20

Hum....

[chloe_fantastic]

Sunday worship being the mark is a Seventh Day Adventist doctrine...........