is Jesus God

[other one]

"Yeshua said unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet have you not known me, Philip? he that has seen me has seen the Father; and how say you then, Show us the Father?" Is Yeshua declaring that he is Father Yahweh? Heb.1:3 and Col.1:15 both state that Yeshua is the "image" of Yahweh. An image is something that resembles something else. Yeshua resembles Yahweh in that their characters are almost identical. "Not that any man has seen the Father" (Jn. 6:46) bodily, but we have seen His character through His Son.

It is not possible that Yahweh is the Father. Moses, Aaron, Nadab, Abihu and 70 of the elders of Israel went up on the mountain and saw the God of Israel (which was/is Yahweh)....... however Jesus tells us that no man has seen the Father.

So either Moses or Jesus is not being strait with us, or Yehweh is not the Father.

Things are not always what they seem. For example;

In Genesis 32:24, when Jacob wrestled with a "man", he said he saw "Elohim face to face". Yet, in Hosea 12:3,4a, we find out it wasn't Elohim (Yahweh), but an angel that he wrestled with; "He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by his strength he had power with Elohim: Yes, he had power over the angel, and prevailed:"

Here are some verses that tell us Elohim (God) has never been seen.

Exodus 33:20 - "And He said, You can not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live."

John 1:18 - "No man has seen Elohim at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared Him."

John 5:37 - "And the Father himself, which has sent me, has borne witness of me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His shape."

John 6:46 - "Not that any man has seen the Father, save he which is of Elohim, he has seen the Father."

1 John 4:12 - "No man has seen Elohim at any time. If we love one another, Elohim dwells in us, and His love is perfected in us."

1Tim 1:17 - "Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise Elohim, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen."

1 Tim 6:16 - " Who only has immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man has seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power everlasting. Amen."

Well I don't want to drag the thread into that word "God", but there is a large difference in the single word Elihim that Jaccob wresteled with and the definative "God of Israel".

The Bible tells us that there are many gods and many lords. Elohim is basically speaking of diety...... The Elohim of Israel is speaking spedifically about an individual diety.... and that diety happens to be Yehweh. And Moses (or whoever wrote Exodus) even went to make the point that they ate and drank so that we should know that it was not a vision, and made the comments that let us know that they would have expected to have been killed for what they saw.

So I do disagre with you about Yehweh being the Father.

Question????? who did Adam walk in the garden with? They heard God coming after they had eaten the fruit so God was there..... did he stay hidden behind a tree or something???

If you disagree that Yahweh is the Father, then you deny a foundational Scriptural truth. Who, then, is the Father and who is Yahweh?

They heard the sound of Yahweh Elohim walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of Yahweh Elohim among the trees of the garden. Gen 3:8

I believe Yahweh was speaking to them through an angel just as He did with Moses from the burning bush.

When the Jews confronted Jesus about things and laughed at him about knowing Abraham, Jesus told them that before Abraham was..... I AM.

We know that Jesus existed as God before he was incarnated into flesh, and it appears that he himself in his pre flesh existance was/is and always will be Yehweh.

[Bible_Gazer]

How can oneness and trinity even argue on this when they both believe in one God Almighty?

They just have problem splitting him up into three pieces.

They are not one but they are one - its an egg theory thingy - shell, white and yoke all together as one.

For sure oneness and trinity are not one.

Can both still make it to heaven ?

[other one]

When the Jews confronted Jesus about things and laughed at him about knowing Abraham, Jesus told them that before Abraham was..... I AM.

We know that Jesus existed as God before he was incarnated into flesh, and it appears that he himself in his pre flesh existance was/is and always will be Yehweh.

In the Greek Septuagint (LXX), Ex 3:14 reads,

In Septuagint English it reads, "And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you."

In KJV English it reads, "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."

In John 8:58, "I am" is "" in Greek. As you can see, "" in Ex 3:14 is just the prelude to what the Almighty really wanted the Israelites to know, that is, that He was the "" or "the Being" or "the Existing One".

If Yeshua truly wanted to tell the Jews he was the great "I am" of Ex 3:14, he would have said, "Before Abraham was I am the Being" or "I am the Existing One".

Several individuals aside from Yeshua used "ego eimi" as well. In Lu.1:19, the angel Gabriel said, "Ego eimi Gabriel." In Jn.9:9, the blind man whose sight was restored by Yeshua said, "Ego eimi." In Acts 10:21, Peter said, "Behold, ego eimi (I am) he whom ye seek." Obviously, the mere use of "ego eimi" does not equate one to the "I Am" of Ex.3:14.

Looking at the context of all the scripture I would disagree with you........ and for you personal information I don't use the Septuigiant..... translations of translations just add problems.

[Fez]

This is where things like this are quite amusing,, to try to say that Yeshua and God are 2 different people is really bizarre

Think about it all through Jesus ministry he performed miracles that ONLY God can do ,, Jesus calls himself God , then there are multiple scriptures that say it plainly and outright ,,

then there is God Almighty saying that HE is the First and the last , the Alpha & the Omega ,,

then there is Jesus Himself saying that HE is the First and the last , the Alpha & Omega

To say that Jesus is not God Almighty is flat out calling Jesus a liar ,, or if insisting that they are different people ,, be calling them, both a liar

It simply is impossible to have 2 different people be the First and last ,the Alpha & Omega

to try to separate them as different beings , is solely based on what some people try to do ,, interpret different names of God and make them different people

AL things were created by Jesus ,, but also the scripture says God created all things

Isaiah . 48

“Listen to me, Jacob,

Israel, whom I have called:

I am he;

I am the first and I am the last.

¹³ My own hand laid the foundations of the earth,

and my right hand spread out the heavens;

when I summon them,

they all stand up together.

Titus 2:13

13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

Isaiah 9:6

6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The Mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace

1 Timothy 3:16

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Matthew 1:23

23 “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel”which means “God with us”.

Isaiah 44

“This is what the Lord says— Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty:

I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

7 Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it. Let him declare and lay out before me

what has happened since I established my ancient people, and what is yet to come—

yes, let them foretell what will come

Revelation

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.

17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Revelation 22

¹² “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. ¹³I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

Almighty who is the “one” coming (thus excluding the possibility of there being two who are coming):

Colossians 2

8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.

9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.

I totally disagree with everything you wrote, but I have no desire to reply to you unless you agree to strictly address the Scriptures and commentary without making personal attacks on me or those that believe like me.

Can you point out the personal attack you are concerned about?

[other one]

When the Jews confronted Jesus about things and laughed at him about knowing Abraham, Jesus told them that before Abraham was..... I AM.

We know that Jesus existed as God before he was incarnated into flesh, and it appears that he himself in his pre flesh existance was/is and always will be Yehweh.

In the Greek Septuagint (LXX), Ex 3:14 reads,

In Septuagint English it reads, "And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you."

In KJV English it reads, "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."

In John 8:58, "I am" is "" in Greek. As you can see, "" in Ex 3:14 is just the prelude to what the Almighty really wanted the Israelites to know, that is, that He was the "" or "the Being" or "the Existing One".

If Yeshua truly wanted to tell the Jews he was the great "I am" of Ex 3:14, he would have said, "Before Abraham was I am the Being" or "I am the Existing One".

Several individuals aside from Yeshua used "ego eimi" as well. In Lu.1:19, the angel Gabriel said, "Ego eimi Gabriel." In Jn.9:9, the blind man whose sight was restored by Yeshua said, "Ego eimi." In Acts 10:21, Peter said, "Behold, ego eimi (I am) he whom ye seek." Obviously, the mere use of "ego eimi" does not equate one to the "I Am" of Ex.3:14.

Looking at the context of all the scripture I would disagree with you........ and for you personal information I don't use the Septuigiant..... translations of translations just add problems.

OK. Disregard the Septuagint statements if you must. Just reply to my last paragraph so I know how you view "ego eimi".

it is all in the context..... translating of words in different languages in different situations bring out different contexts and that's the difference.

but if you want to believe the Father is Yehweh, it won't hurt either of us.,,, but it would be interesting to know where Jesus was before he was flesh in your world.

[Fez]

Are you implying the Greek of those verses is incorrect? Or that the English translations are incorrect? It would be very helpful if you would explain your replies so we don't have to go back and forth like this.

Yeshua did not exist as a being prior to his earthly birth. He existed in the mind of his Father Yahweh until the time appointed for him to come into the world (John 16:27; 17:8).

Please explain your opinion on John 1: 1-5 ?

[Fez]

I was not referring to an attack in this recent post. I was referring to the post that led me to cease conversing with you in the Saturday or Sunday thread where you accused me of having a "holier than thou" attitude.

I will reply to your posts in this thread when you agree to not write anything negative about my character, but just stick to the Scriptures.

Ok, it would help if you were more specific. And just a question?

Are you willing to forgive?

[Fez]

Ok lets get the OP back on track and try to avoid the personal.

Is Jesus God, that's the topic,

[JCISGD]

Hi Joco, I was raised in an athiest family and lost in my sins for 28 yrs with no interest or knowledge of God. When i understood Jesus was God and died on the cross for my sins to save me from eternal seperation from Him and an eternal torment in hell, i recieved Gods forgiveness and salvation by faith in Jesus. I "became born again" and i knew it, my world was changed in an instant and i knew i was a new person. Without Jesus being God, i would be still lost, probably even dead from my destructive and reckless living.

Jesus said we must be "born again" if we want to enjoy heaven with the Father,Son and Holy Spirit who are each God yet one person.

Joco i hope im not being intrusive or inappropriate but can i ask? are you born again? how did this happen for you? Feel free to PM me if you prefer as i only ask it here to allow opportunity for others to hear and understand your testimony of salavation through Yahweh.

[Fez]

The last five or so posts were not adding to the OP discussion in any positive way.

Topic locked.

Blessings