Sevenseas Posted July 22, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2012 So sevenseas, do you have a problem with the fact that Mrs. Meyer is rich, or that she says God made it so? Did I say that I did? Oh come now, your whole post is about the fact, and your comments are irrefutable evidence of such. That's not true Fez. My entire post is not about her being rich. Anyone can read what I wrote and see you are cherry picking to try and make me look petty. She has become rich off the gospel, but not the gospel of Jesus Christ But that is the typical question asked of course when one states that Jesus did not die to make us rich down here. What is distasteful, is making money off the gospel to the extent you have so much you own several houses, your own plane and a huge yacht. Seriously, is that why Jesus died? What does that lifestyle say to martyrs or those in prison for their beliefs? Does it perhaps say watch out America you might be next? I dunno...but I do know that making oneself rich off what should be free is not what God had in mind. God blessed Abraham and many others...but those people did not get rich from the gospel. Of course people in full time ministry should have their needs met....I think having money is great....harder for a rich man in some cases tho So you are saying it is Ok to have money, but you should be the one to decide (in this case) where it comes from and how much Interesting how you are trying to put me on the defensive. I am so tired of people trying to do that Actually Fez, you appear to have a problem with me pointing out and posting some of her erroneous teaching This is not about how much money makes a person rich Are we all cursed if we don't have a private jet you ask? Let me ask you, are we cursed if we do? What do you think? It will be interesting to see one day, what happens with all the works of those who professed the name of Christ, yet used the gospel to become rich and twisted scripture and made mockery out of those who suffered by telling them they did not have enough faith or you are sick because your faith is not strong enough I do not understand how people can possibly equate the get rich gospel with what Jesus preached. It's a mystery Is that what you think Mrs Meyer preaches? Please show me where she says that in so many words? Show me where she preaches the lifestyle Jesus led rather than purchasing million dollar homes, a jet and a huge yacht. That's the gospel? But yet, that is not what my post was all about. And as to her saying we will live our reward? What's wrong with that? Or are you the one to decide if the reward will be two chickens or a Learjet? From where I stand that's God's domain.... Look, you obviously have something against what I posted...even though it is documented and available for the entire world to read. You also have a Bible...are the words of the word of faith false teachers in the Bible? Did Jesus preach on prosperity and being rich? Did He teach that we will never hurt or have suffering or did He teach that we should have our treasure in heaven because where our heart is, there will our treasure be also I don't find your jet and chicken remarks funny. You may stand on either side. You know where I stand. My remark was not in any way intended to be funny. It was deadly serious. Define rich for me please Define where Jesus told the apostles to take up an offering from the multitudes and buy themselves diamonds with it and I'll get back to you on your question "Be careful Joyce, those words may very be true. This life, here and now, may very well be your reward" And that comment is judgement, pure and simple. Because you have no idea what God's plans are for Mrs Meyer. Yes it is. Does that scare you? She judges herself with what she says. Just do not take anything here as personally aimed at you Fez. You do not like my posts, but I did not lie or exaggerate I never accused you of lying or exaggerating. I accused you of a judgmental attitude. To which you affirmed in your answer. No. I do not affirm what you say about me. You write that you accused me. Pretty funny eh? You did exactly what you are trying to say I did. You have chosen just one aspect of what I posted. But still, it is an important one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted July 22, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2012 "During that time He entered hell, where you and I deserved to go (legally) because of our sin...He paid the price there.…no plan was too extreme...Jesus paid on the cross and in hell….God rose up from His throne and said to demon powers tormenting the sinless Son of God, “Let Him go.” Then the resurrection power of Almighty God went through hell and filled Jesus...He was resurrected from the dead 3Ú4 the first born-again man" (The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make: A Complete And Thorough Understanding Of What It Means To Be Born Again, 1991, pages 35-36, Joyce Meyer) This quote was found from the Christian Research Institute's article on Joyce Meyer which can be found by "Clicking Here". In her 1996 edition of "The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make" Joyce Meyer states the same things but with different wording. "Believe that Jesus did what the Bible says. Believe He is indeed the Son of God, born of a virgin. He took man's sin on the cross. He did not stay dead. He was in the grave three days. During that time, He entered hell, where you and I deserved to go (legally) because of our sin." (Page 41, 1996-Edition) Notice the similar wording in this quote compared to the other quote. "Whatever it took to get God's people back, free again, is what they would do. Jesus paid for our sins on the cross and went to hell in our place." (Page 41, 1996-Edition) Whatever it took means that Jesus had to go to hell, suffer and be tormented by demons in our place. This story is not in the Bible. It is WOF teaching and is spurious. It is just one of many errors being taught today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted July 22, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted July 22, 2012 So sevenseas, do you have a problem with the fact that Mrs. Meyer is rich, or that she says God made it so? Did I say that I did? Oh come now, your whole post is about the fact, and your comments are irrefutable evidence of such. That's not true Fez. My entire post is not about her being rich. Anyone can read what I wrote and see you are cherry picking to try and make me look petty. She has become rich off the gospel, but not the gospel of Jesus Christ But that is the typical question asked of course when one states that Jesus did not die to make us rich down here. What is distasteful, is making money off the gospel to the extent you have so much you own several houses, your own plane and a huge yacht. Seriously, is that why Jesus died? What does that lifestyle say to martyrs or those in prison for their beliefs? Does it perhaps say watch out America you might be next? I dunno...but I do know that making oneself rich off what should be free is not what God had in mind. God blessed Abraham and many others...but those people did not get rich from the gospel. Of course people in full time ministry should have their needs met....I think having money is great....harder for a rich man in some cases tho So you are saying it is Ok to have money, but you should be the one to decide (in this case) where it comes from and how much Interesting how you are trying to put me on the defensive. I am so tired of people trying to do that Actually Fez, you appear to have a problem with me pointing out and posting some of her erroneous teaching This is not about how much money makes a person rich Are we all cursed if we don't have a private jet you ask? Let me ask you, are we cursed if we do? What do you think? It will be interesting to see one day, what happens with all the works of those who professed the name of Christ, yet used the gospel to become rich and twisted scripture and made mockery out of those who suffered by telling them they did not have enough faith or you are sick because your faith is not strong enough I do not understand how people can possibly equate the get rich gospel with what Jesus preached. It's a mystery Is that what you think Mrs Meyer preaches? Please show me where she says that in so many words? Show me where she preaches the lifestyle Jesus led rather than purchasing million dollar homes, a jet and a huge yacht. That's the gospel? But yet, that is not what my post was all about. And as to her saying we will live our reward? What's wrong with that? Or are you the one to decide if the reward will be two chickens or a Learjet? From where I stand that's God's domain.... Look, you obviously have something against what I posted...even though it is documented and available for the entire world to read. You also have a Bible...are the words of the word of faith false teachers in the Bible? Did Jesus preach on prosperity and being rich? Did He teach that we will never hurt or have suffering or did He teach that we should have our treasure in heaven because where our heart is, there will our treasure be also I don't find your jet and chicken remarks funny. You may stand on either side. You know where I stand. My remark was not in any way intended to be funny. It was deadly serious. Define rich for me please Define where Jesus told the apostles to take up an offering from the multitudes and buy themselves diamonds with it and I'll get back to you on your question "Be careful Joyce, those words may very be true. This life, here and now, may very well be your reward" And that comment is judgement, pure and simple. Because you have no idea what God's plans are for Mrs Meyer. Yes it is. Does that scare you? She judges herself with what she says. Just do not take anything here as personally aimed at you Fez. You do not like my posts, but I did not lie or exaggerate I never accused you of lying or exaggerating. I accused you of a judgmental attitude. To which you affirmed in your answer. No. I do not affirm what you say about me. You write that you accused me. Pretty funny eh? You did exactly what you are trying to say I did. You have chosen just one aspect of what I posted. But still, it is an important one No. I do not affirm what you say about me. Of course you do! Me....."And that comment is judgement, pure and simple. Because you have no idea what God's plans are for Mrs Meyer". You...." Yes it is. Does that scare you"? In your own words.... Ok, here's the deal. I don't listen to Mrs Meyer or any other television evangelist. Mostly because they bore me. But.... You attribute having wealth as being something wrong...... Well you are patently wrong in your judgmental attitude, (see above for confirmation) and that's what is worrying me. You say that " Of course people in full time ministry should have their needs met....I think having money is great....harder for a rich man in some cases tho". I have asked you to define "rich", but you cannot do so. So what is your argument about being wealthy based on? Your own interpretation of what wealth is, that's all. This for me is not about Mrs Meyer. It is about your attitude to wealth, even though you cannot or will not define what wealth is, or how much wealth a person should have. Surely you know the answer to this question when you base the premise of your argument on it? Your comment that it is harder for a rich man in some cases tho? Why? It is also very easy for a poor man to make money his god. I deal with a lot of poor people and I see this all the time. How much is rich? What is the standard we should use? Please define. Having one's needs met? Please define what needs you talk about? I abhor the prosperity gospel and will preach against it until the cows come home. But I also abhor slating wealth. Wealth comes from the Lord, everything we have comes from the Lord. he chooses to gift some with wealth, and some He does not. The big difference is not how much one has, but what one does with it. If I needed a Bell Jetranger so that I could be more effective in my ministry in Mozambique, and I could afford one, I would buy one. Perhaps that is what Mrs Meyer is doing? How would we know. I chose to leave that to the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVE SONGS Posted July 22, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 131 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,188 Content Per Day: 0.50 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 8 Joined: 04/10/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2012 Joyce's interview with Nightline when asked about her private jet she says "is there no reward for people doing what I'm doing?" Ummm...how about God saying "well done good and faithful servant" ? Jesse Duplantis' ministry is located , not far from of New Orleans, and is located in a rich neighborhood. He and his wife live in a nice beautiful house. He owns his own jet. Well... the church people are angry to the fact that ...Jesse and his wife want to build a 28 room mansion. What on earth for ? Their children are all grown and out on their own. The feds. were auditing him, and his church. You can google it. Benny Hinn and his wife had a divorce... he has multiple mansions and jet. By the way ...Benny and his wife will be married again in the fall. Copelands ...the same. These people don't work to earn a living. They are supported by the donations,to their ministeries. Donated by,...people who work hard that, sweat to the brow and back , just to earn a living. The ones that work hard and give, are the ones that should be made wealthy. Our pastor just built a 6 million dollor church, paid for he says. Now , he is asking for people to give at least $81. a mo. ...to cover the cost for the seats ...and concrete parking area....with light posts. hummmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVE SONGS Posted July 22, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 131 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,188 Content Per Day: 0.50 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 8 Joined: 04/10/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2012 By the way...our pastor does not work. Plus , he and wife, just got back from on a wonderful vacation , he told what they did while on vacation . I sure wished I could afford to take pleasure trips here and there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVE SONGS Posted July 22, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 131 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,188 Content Per Day: 0.50 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 8 Joined: 04/10/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2012 A trip to Hawaii...they took. That must have cost ...at least more than $2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted July 23, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted July 23, 2012 No. I do not affirm what you say about me. Of course you do! Me....."And that comment is judgement, pure and simple. Because you have no idea what God's plans are for Mrs Meyer". You...." Yes it is. Does that scare you"? In your own words.... Ok, here's the deal. I don't listen to Mrs Meyer or any other television evangelist. Mostly because they bore me. But.... You attribute having wealth as being something wrong...... Well you are patently wrong in your judgmental attitude, (see above for confirmation) and that's what is worrying me. You say that " Of course people in full time ministry should have their needs met....I think having money is great....harder for a rich man in some cases tho". I have asked you to define "rich", but you cannot do so. So what is your argument about being wealthy based on? Your own interpretation of what wealth is, that's all. This for me is not about Mrs Meyer. It is about your attitude to wealth, even though you cannot or will not define what wealth is, or how much wealth a person should have. Surely you know the answer to this question when you base the premise of your argument on it? Your comment that it is harder for a rich man in some cases tho? Why? It is also very easy for a poor man to make money his god. I deal with a lot of poor people and I see this all the time. How much is rich? What is the standard we should use? Please define. Having one's needs met? Please define what needs you talk about? I abhor the prosperity gospel and will preach against it until the cows come home. But I also abhor slating wealth. Wealth comes from the Lord, everything we have comes from the Lord. he chooses to gift some with wealth, and some He does not. The big difference is not how much one has, but what one does with it. If I needed a Bell Jetranger so that I could be more effective in my ministry in Mozambique, and I could afford one, I would buy one. Perhaps that is what Mrs Meyer is doing? How would we know. I chose to leave that to the Lord. Not buying it. I stand by what I said even though it apparently offends you. It was not about you. I'm not arguing with you and I have nothing to prove. I posted verses some ways back concerning what scriptures says regarding those who preach the gospel for gain. So like someone else asked, are we going to believe the Bible or Mrs Meyers? There is nothing personal in any of what I wrote. You trying to make it personal, is just not working. I don't care about how you spend your money. We are not discussing you and we are not discussing me either, even though you sure do seem like you would like to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted July 23, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted July 23, 2012 I just hope I am not embarrassed by some folks here when we get to heaven. Our Fathers streets are paved with Gold. I can just picture people like Sevenseas running to the Throne room and giving God a what for.......... Wasting all that wonderful Gold to make street pavement...... Shame on God...... I really bother you, don't I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted July 23, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,194 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,471 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted July 23, 2012 No. I do not affirm what you say about me. Of course you do! Me....."And that comment is judgement, pure and simple. Because you have no idea what God's plans are for Mrs Meyer". You...." Yes it is. Does that scare you"? In your own words.... Ok, here's the deal. I don't listen to Mrs Meyer or any other television evangelist. Mostly because they bore me. But.... You attribute having wealth as being something wrong...... Well you are patently wrong in your judgmental attitude, (see above for confirmation) and that's what is worrying me. You say that " Of course people in full time ministry should have their needs met....I think having money is great....harder for a rich man in some cases tho". I have asked you to define "rich", but you cannot do so. So what is your argument about being wealthy based on? Your own interpretation of what wealth is, that's all. This for me is not about Mrs Meyer. It is about your attitude to wealth, even though you cannot or will not define what wealth is, or how much wealth a person should have. Surely you know the answer to this question when you base the premise of your argument on it? Your comment that it is harder for a rich man in some cases tho? Why? It is also very easy for a poor man to make money his god. I deal with a lot of poor people and I see this all the time. How much is rich? What is the standard we should use? Please define. Having one's needs met? Please define what needs you talk about? I abhor the prosperity gospel and will preach against it until the cows come home. But I also abhor slating wealth. Wealth comes from the Lord, everything we have comes from the Lord. he chooses to gift some with wealth, and some He does not. The big difference is not how much one has, but what one does with it. If I needed a Bell Jetranger so that I could be more effective in my ministry in Mozambique, and I could afford one, I would buy one. Perhaps that is what Mrs Meyer is doing? How would we know. I chose to leave that to the Lord. Not buying it. I stand by what I said even though it apparently offends you. It was not about you. I'm not arguing with you and I have nothing to prove. I posted verses some ways back concerning what scriptures says regarding those who preach the gospel for gain. So like someone else asked, are we going to believe the Bible or Mrs Meyers? There is nothing personal in any of what I wrote. You trying to make it personal, is just not working. I don't care about how you spend your money. We are not discussing you and we are not discussing me either, even though you sure do seem like you would like to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVE SONGS Posted July 23, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 131 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,188 Content Per Day: 0.50 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 8 Joined: 04/10/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted July 23, 2012 LOVE SONGS I normally like your post....... Just seems out of character to be judgmental like that. I know about Brother Copeland. The man is 76 some years old, still flys his own jet, still keeps an insane schedule. He literately Paid for a lot of things our Church has, started I don't know how many Churches. I know last time he came to visit us...... I was very inspired....... All his people were at our Church setting up for the meeting. He had several semi's with Jesus Is Lord on the side, and a huge satellite thingy they stuck in the Parking lot. All his people were awesome, and so gracious. I thought, now this is really how to do things for God. Kenneth uses his own Movie camera's, Own sound system, so we put ours away to make room. I think about the response David would have gotten to call everyone together to build the Temple. God would not let him actually build it, but David put all the wealth he had into it. Billions by today's standard. When Solomon finished that nice Temple for God it was the Most expensive thing built at that time. I am sure many on this forum, had they been there at the time would have been blogging on stone tablets about the terrible waste and love of money David and Solomon had. I am sure many here would have been saying that God could have gotten by with a shack, and the money used to feed the poor. I just hope I am not embarrassed by some folks here when we get to heaven. Our Fathers streets are paved with Gold. I can just picture people like Sevenseas running to the Throne room and giving God a what for.......... Wasting all that wonderful Gold to make street pavement...... Shame on God...... Jesus Is Lord. Do you know what kind of job he has, other than preaching ? How did he earn his money ? For I know that some pastors, have to hold a side job , to earn their honest pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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