Baptism of Repentance

[tsth]

stevehut.

I believe that repentance is necessary for everyone who sins.

Necessary for salvation you mean?

So one must repent and believe which means that you must repent before you believe? Is this what you say?

You don't believe that salvation is by faith but that salvation comes through repentance. You degrade faith by saying, "mere belief". It is mere faith that God has decided will save all that come to Him.

Some people believe that mere belief is sufficient for salvation. But since Satan himself also believes (James 5, I think), it seems to me that disproves such a theory.

I mentioned that Jesus said we must believe in Him. That believing in God and believing in Jesus are two separate things and you confuse the two, why? Ehp 2:8-9 says that it is by faith that salvation comes to a person not by repentance. How do we deal with these verses when your sense of repentance overthrows them. Are we talking about Christians or non-Christians?

Posted: Oct 20 2004, 07:37 PM

Nope. Repentance means, among the other things you mentioned, that you change your behavior. Remorse for your sins is useless unless you turn from them.

So you are saying that all the meanings of this word are used as you say all the time? Yet we have not yet decided on a definition have we? If there is one could we have it on show so everyone knows where we are coming from.

Thanks.

johnp.

Dear johnp,

I really wanted to address the portion of your statement that I highlighted above.

What you are missing here, is that repentance is the result of that belief/faith. If I believe what I hear about my sin, and I'm willing to believe what God says about it, then wouldn't I naturally repent/be broken over my sin? Wouldn't that be REAL FAITH........if I act on what I believe? It's like hearing that there is a serum for my cancer, and I can take it and be healed...........now, I can pick it up and take it, or I can stare at it? If I don't believe it, then I'm going to do absolutely nothing about it........makes the Book of James so relevant here, but too big to post. But I will say this, there is a portion in the Book of James that after looking at it this morning, describes what I have been trying to convey about the 2 parts..........the hearing of the Word, and the repentance, and the healing gift of Jesus Christ. Here it is:

James 1:16 Don't be deceived, my dear brothers. Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change, like shifting shadows. 18 He chose to give us birth through the Word of Truth, that we might be a a kind of firstfruits of all He created.

19 My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, 20 for man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. 21 Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you. Do not merely listen to the word and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tsth]

Who baptised John the Baptist?

johnp.

Perhaps Jesus, AFTER John baptised him.

Oh and this was another thing I found very interesting among the study of the "baptism of repentance"...........remember, that was the given term in the Scriptures for John's baptism.

Why was it necessary for Jesus Himself to undergo this particular baptism? It must have been pretty vital? Even John himself wondered why? He knew that his own message was one of repentance, therefore the baptism was a sign of agreement and an outward picture of one who had repented. I mean look at his dialogue to the Pharisees, he knew that they were too proud to undergo that type of humility, and he said as much..........."brood of vipers", produce fruit in "keeping with repentance"? Wow, he didn't mince any words, and yet amidst that tirade to the Pharisee, here comes Jesus submitting to this type of baptism. Don't you have to ask "why"? Because it was RIGHT before the Father!

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tsth]

Who baptized John the Baptist? Think about "where" he was when he leaped for joy.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[yomotalking]

Samuel was a Priest of the most high and he was such without repentance if steve's statement is correct.

If the objection is raised that we don't know how old he was then the answer to that is, "19 Each year his mother made him a little robe..."

Ok sister?

johnp.

OK

[yomotalking]

Who baptized John the Baptist? Think about "where" he was when he leaped for joy.

In His Love,

Suzanne

But that was baptism of the Spirit wasn't it. Who baptised him in water.

[tsth]

Again I say, think of "where" he was.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[stevehut]

1- Necessary for salvation you mean?

2- you must repent before you believe? Is this what you say?

3- You don't believe that salvation is by faith but that salvation comes through repentance.

4- You degrade faith by saying, "mere belief".

5- Ehp 2:8-9 says that it is by faith that salvation comes to a person not by repentance.

6- So you are saying that all the meanings of this word are used as you say all the time? Yet we have not yet decided on a definition have we?

1- I think I just explained that, with Acts 3:19.

2- Huh? No, that would be ridiculous.

3- See Acts 3:19

4- Um, no. I said that faith is more than merely believing.

5- Ah, I get it now. You want to pick-and-choose which parts of the Bible to believe and obey.

6- I think I've already explained this several times now.

[stevehut]

Repentence has to come from us, but God is the one who gives us the ability to repent.We can't become a Christian unless the Holy Spirit convicts us.

Agreed.

[johnP]

Suzanne.

What you are missing here, is that repentance is the result of that belief/faith.

Well that is what I've been saying. But seeing as we are groping in the dark with not knowing who we are talking about Christians or non-Christians and the fact that we have jumped any discussion on what repentance is will just leave us sniping at one another.

...then wouldn't I naturally repent/be broken over my sin? Wouldn't that be REAL FAITH........

You should come to a realisation naturally but that does not make faith real. Faith alone is real and what comes from that is real repentance. Real repentance does not affect faith except to make it stronger.

It's like hearing that there is a serum for my cancer, and I can take it and be healed.....

No it is not. The faith you have is the cure.

If I don't believe it, then I'm going to do absolutely nothing about it.........makes the Book of James so relevant here

No you said yourself that faith will naturally result in works. If you do nothing about it then you will join the thief on the cross who had no time for repentance, the children that are not able and that man in Corinth who did not bother, 1 Cor 5:5. Repentance has nothing to do with salvation except it is one way the Lord draws those chosen. It has no saving quality in and of itself.

21 Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you. Do not merely listen to the word and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.

I have not said that repentance is of no use and is not used but this verse is difficult and I need to examine it more. Who is he talking to? I'll come back to this as I have to go to housegroup tonight. We should keep in mind that the law saved no one so repentance, which after all is obedience to the law, will save no one.

Who baptized John the Baptist? Think about "where" he was when he leaped for joy.

Is that 'by the water'? Was that a baptism of repentance or what? Was it a baptism or just a joy of a sinner meeting his Saviour?

johnp.

[tsth]

Dear johnp,

I get the feeling that it is easier to say that Christ must take the blame for you, if you are not found to be saved in the end, because it is easier than having to recognize your own sin, and the need to humble yourself in admitting that you are in need of a Savior, and humbling yourself in submission to Him. You do not see a need for brokenness?

Yet even the thief on the cross did, johnp. He did have time for repentance, one thief did, one did not. One was saved, one was not.

Who were Christ's real mothers and brothers johnp?

In His Love,

Suzanne