Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Way195

Evaluation of the Doctrine of Unconditional Eternal Security or OSAS

54 posts in this topic

Saved can only mean one thing--eternally secure in Christ. If this is not the definition it means nothing!

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did Jesus have anything to say about this topic? If he did, then naturally his view would carry the most weight of all. Examine Luke 15. We know that Jesus often used parables to teach spiritual truth to those discerning enough to apprehend its meaning. We also know that when something is repeated more than once, especially in the span of just a few verses, it is very important to take note of or - it is indeed - the main point of the passage/teaching. Having said this, let's take a look at what Jesus said about the prodigal son. Most sermons and teachings focus on the person of God and his grace and mercy to forgive when the prodigal returned back to his father's household. While this is absolutely true, notice however that the father repeats himself twice in vss. 24 and 32. What does he say? "For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found..." and "because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found..." Based on these parallel statements, one can deduce that the main point of this parable is that the son was spiritually alive when he abided in his father's household, but he died (spiritual death) when he strayed from his father and chose to follow a lifestyle of habitual sin and disobedience. Thus he became lost (unsaved). Notice though that the father proclaims that his son became alive AGAIN (spiritual life) and was found (saved) upon his repentance and return to his father. Moral of the story: one can be a son (believer) but go one's own way (instead of following The Way) and thus become dead (spiritual death). However, upon repentance marked by turning away from sin, someone who is lost (unsaved) can be found (saved) and made spiritually alive again through God's gracious forgiveness. Paul confirms Jesus' teaching to the brethren living in Rome when he warns them: "For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live" (Rom 8:13).

Edited by Elhanan
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did Jesus have anything to say about this topic? If he did, then naturally his view would carry the most weight of all. Examine Luke 15. We know that Jesus often used parables to teach spiritual truth to those discerning enough to apprehend its meaning. We also know that when something is repeated more than once, especially in the span of just a few verses, it is very important to take note of or - it is indeed - the main point of the passage/teaching. Having said this, let's take a look at what Jesus said about the prodigal son. Most sermons and teachings focus on the person of God and his grace and mercy to forgive when the prodigal returned back to his father's household. While this is absolutely true, notice however that the father repeats himself twice in vss. 24 and 32. What does he say? "For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found..." and "because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found..." Based on these parallel statements, one can deduce that the main point of this parable is that the son was spiritually alive when he abided in his father's household, but he died (spiritual death) when he strayed from his father and chose to follow a lifestyle of habitual sin and disobedience. Thus he became lost (unsaved). Notice though that the father proclaims that his son became alive AGAIN (spiritual life) and was found (saved) upon his repentance and return to his father. Moral of the story: one can be a son (believer) but go one's own way (instead of following The Way) and thus become dead (spiritual death). However, upon repentance marked by turning away from sin, someone who is lost (unsaved) can be found (saved) and made spiritually alive again through God's gracious forgiveness. Paul confirms Jesus' teaching to the brethren living in Rome when he warns them: "For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live" (Rom 8:13).

Your conclusion is not very likely,

Romans 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

When was Paul alive? When did the commandment come?

10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Matthew 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Jonah 4:11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?

2 Samuel 12:22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?

23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

And about the verse in Romans you quoted without any context,

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 ¶ And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 ¶ And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

26 ¶ Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 ¶ For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 ¶ What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Do you really think everyone in the church is truly saved?

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Basically

if it walks like a hog, and talks like a hog, it is probably a hog.

if it walks like a dog, and talks like a dog, it is probably a dog.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did Jesus have anything to say about this topic?

:thumbsup:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. John 6:47

And Amen~!

Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I and my Father are one. John 10:24-30

Double Stick

And Sealed With A Promise~!

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Ephesians 1:13-14

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MY VIEW ON 'ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED'

Gospel:

Romans 8:29-39, For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all--how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died--more than that, who was raised to life--is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered." No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. "

Mark 13:22, "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect--if that were possible.

John 4:14, "but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life."

John 20:28, I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.

1 Thess. 5:24, "The one who calls you is faithful and he will do it.

Hebrews 10:14, "because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

Rev. 3:5, "I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels."

Law:

John 15:4-7, "Remain in me, and I will remain in you... If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."

Rev. 2:10, "Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Matthew 10:22, "He who stands firm to the end will be saved."

1 Timothy 4:1, "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."

Luke 8:13, "They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away."

John 8:31, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really My disciples."

Luke 21:19, "By standing firm you will gain life."

Hebrews 8:9, "They did not remain faithful to My covenant, and I turned away from them"

Gal. 5:4, "You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."

Col. 1:23, "If you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel."

Hebrews 10:26, "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God."

2 Peter 1:8-10, "But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure."

2 Peter 3:17, "Be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position."

Rev. 3:5, He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white.

Luke 12:8, "He who disowns Me before men will be disowned before the angels of God."

As so often in theology, we find there are "two sides of the coin." To ME, the approach is NOT to take all the Scriptures, subject them to our limited, fallable, sinful, human LOGIC and force them to "fit" and "make sense" to US. To ME, the approach is to accept both "sets" of scriptures at their face value and allow them to stand in all their truth and power just as God inspired them.

The approach, then, is in how to APPLY them rather than in how to force them to fit together according to our fallible, limited logic. Not in accepting one "set" and explaining away the other in the light of it.

MY view...

- Josiah

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

much like any error found in a churches doctrine, when one takes a truth to either side of extremism, it finds itself in error

all one needs to do is go to the last book, and see how it all pans out in the end, and its quite apparent if you don't want your name blotted out of the book of life repent and turn from your error

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Eternal Security or Once Saved Always Saved is Absolutely True. The Holy Bible has many verses or passages that prove this. Here is just a few. There are many more.

 

If someone has everlasting life, then they could never be damned. If not they did not have everlasting life but potentially everlasting life. Jesus Christ, who is God, would not lie especially with the double verily.

 

John 6:47

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

 

Verse 15 and 16 again say the same thing and by the same logic have eternal security. Both also emphatically claim, “should not perish” also. Verse 18 Jesus Christ says that they are not condemned.

 

John 3:14-18

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

In verse 26, Jesus Christ said that they shall never die. Surely you believe God.

 

John 11:25-26

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

 

If you're sealed till the day of redemption, you could not be damned.

 

Ephesians 4:30

And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

 

Jesus says He is with the saved and will never leave them. How could they ever go to hell.

 

Hebrews 13:5

Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

 

If someone has eternal life, then they could never be damned. If not they did not have eternal life but potentially eternal life. Jesus Christ, who is God, would not lie. Again Jesus Christ is emphatic that “they shall never perish.” Obviously no man can pluck them out of Jesus’ hand or His Father’s hand.

 

John 10:28-30

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one.

 

How can you know that you have eternal life if is only a maybe?

 

1 John 5:13

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

 

The next passage says “are saved” not might be saved.

 

Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

Potentially damned could not be salvation.

 

Romans 1:16

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

 

The above sampling absolutely proves that eternal security (once saved always saved) is absolutely true. They are emphatic and quite clear. Since the Holy Bible has no contradictions, anything that you think shows otherwise is just your mistaken interpretation. Many people assume a passage is talking about salvation/damnation when it is not. This is usually done by taking the verse out of context, assuming meanings of words with false definitions and doctrines, ignoring what salvation really means, or by not rightly dividing the word of truth (see 2 Timothy 2:15) You may be confusing statements made to a different people, for a different time, about a different subject. You may even be using a new Bible version with a corrupt reading.

 

In love, in Christ, in meekness,

Mark

Edited by MarkNigro
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a believer in eternal security.  My belief in that didn't come "from the devil".  Mean spirited phrase.  Never thought it fruitful or in the spirit of being salt and light.  In any regards.  I look forward to reading through this whole thread and contributing. 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To my mind, God loves each one of us and is more than willing to forgive us.

 

The only ones who won't be in paradises will be those having made this choice.

 

And this is an ungoing temptation.

 

 

 

Lothar's son - Lothars Sohn

<<< removed blog link. >>>

Edited by GoldenEagle
<<< removed blog link. >>>
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Eternal Security or Once Saved Always Saved is Absolutely True. The Holy Bible has many verses or passages that prove this. Here is just a few. There are many more.

 

Jesus Christ, who is the Lord God Almighty, proclaimed the following.

 

John 6:47

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

 

Since belief is the only thing mentioned, it must be the only thing necessary for salvation. It cannot be belief plus anything else. If it were, then the statement would not be true. But Jesus said this, so it must be true. If someone does not believe these words spoken by Jesus Christ, then that person does not believe what Jesus Christ said. Therefore that person has not believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. John 3:14-15 is a faith alone statement.

            It is also a once saved, always saved statement, else it would say might have everlasting life. If a person have everlasting life, they could never be damned.

 

In the passage below, verses 15 and 16 again say the same thing and by the same logic have eternal security. Both also emphatically claim, “should not perish” also. Verse 18 Jesus Christ says that they are not condemned.

 

John 3:14-18

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

In verse 26, Jesus Christ said that they shall never die. Surely you believe God.

 

John 11:25-26

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

 

If your sealed till the day of redemption, you could not be damned.

 

Ephesians 4:30

And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

 

Jesus says He is with the saved and will never leave them. How could they ever go to hell.

 

Hebrews 13:5

Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

 

If someone has eternal life, then they could never be damned. If not they did not have eternal life but potentially eternal life. Jesus Christ, who is God, would not lie. Again Jesus Christ is emphatic that “they shall never perish.” Obviously no man can pluck them out of Jesus’ hand or His Father’s hand.

 

John 10:28-30

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one.

 

How can you know that you have eternal life if is only a maybe?

 

1 John 5:13

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

 

The next passage says “are saved” not might be saved.

 

Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

Potentially damned could not be salvation.

 

Romans 1:16

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

 

John 5:24

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

 

2 Corinthians 5:8

We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

 

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

 

The above sampling absolutely proves that eternal security (once saved always saved) is absolutely true. They are emphatic and quite clear. Since the Holy Bible has no contradictions, anything that you think shows otherwise is just your mistaken interpretation. Many people assume a passage is talking about salvation/damnation when it is not. This is usually done by taking the verse out of context, assuming meanings of words with false definitions and doctrines, ignoring what salvation really means, or by not rightly dividing the word of truth (see 2 Timothy 2:15) You may be confusing statements made to a different people, for a different time, about a different subject. You may even be using a new Bible version with a corrupt reading.

 

In love, in Christ, in meekness,

Mark

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0