A History Question About Israel?

[Bible_Gazer]

You might read Ezek.36

God is bringing them back for his name sake. To show the Jews and Gentiles that he is God.

Also talks about it in Ezek.39

[gdemoss]

The church --the bride of Christ, is a heavenly people, and they are not destined to live on the earth, but in Heaven.

I can't find this in the bible anywhere. One needs to understand who Israel is for sure. Once one truly understands who Israel is then they have the key to all understanding.

Gary

One will not find a specific verse that states this (like so many truths in Scripture), but taking "all the counsel of God", as the Apostle said, one can see the big picture. If one believes in the Translation of the Church (called "rapture"), they will find that the Church is taken out BEFORE the wrath of God falls on this Christ rejecting world; then, AFTER God's Tribulation time when the Lord Jesus returns again to vanquish His enemies and establish His reign in the Millennium, the Bride --Church of God, comes with Him and enjoys His reign for a thousand years on earth. AFTER the Millennium reign the Lord Jesus delivers up the Kingdom again to His Father (see 1 Cor. 15:22-28) who will restore and govern Israel on the earth; and the Bride will ever be with the Lord in the Father's house above this world. God will have an earthly people (Israel) and a heavenly people (the Bride -Church) forever.

Is this your personal conclusion, something you were taught that you just accept or do you give credit to the Holy Spirit having revealed it to you as truth?

Gary

[Willa]

Father God called Isreal His wife just as the church is betrothed to Jesus Christ. We are told that our Father's wife left him and committed adultry, but He always took Her back. At one point he divorced her but He will again restore her to her land.

The Koran teaches muslims to kill unbelievers in their land. Not all Muslims embrace this, but many do. This includes killing Americans as well as Isrealis. Those who are not converted are executed. So there is no chance of peace in the middle east as long as non Muslims live there. This applies to all far eastern hations that are mostly Muslim as well.

In no way are we to hate people of other religions. We are to pray for them, and, one on one, we are to overcome evil with good. We are to extend the love of Christ to individuals. How else will they ever know there is a difference between our 2 faiths. "Love your enemies and do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, and pray for those who spitefully use you. Luke 6:27-28 NKJV

I do not believe this applies to millitary intervenion, but only to those whom we encounter in our daily civillian lives.

[He giveth more grace]

I have a question in regards to Israeli history. When I was a young man I just didn't find history to be of much interest, and that was a big mistake. So I hope we have some history buffs here.

I know that in 1948, after WW2 had ended, the Jewish people were given back the land we now know as Israel. I also know that in ancient times God gave this land to the Jewish people. But then they lost it, and I think God took it away from them because they continually failed to obey Him. So prior to WW2, and maybe even WW1, where were the Jewish people living? What I mean is prior to 1948, when was the last time the Jews lived as a nation in the land known as Israel?

And does anyone know why this land was given back to them in 1948? I mean how was that decision made? Obviously the people who lived there prior to 1948 had to be relocated. They didn't take that well, and there has been war and growing hatred there ever since.

Does anyone know anything about all this?

The Jews were living in many places away from their homeland. This is called the "Diaspora." The name of Israel was wiped out by the Romans and renamed "Palestine" which includes Israel and Jordan today. After the Romans came the Arabs who conquered the area.

As many Jews returned to Palestine especially during World War II, it caused a problem with the Muslim Arabs who were already there.

Under the British mandate of 1917, Palestine was divided. The land east of the Jordan River became Trans-Jordan and was given to the Muslims while the land west of the Jordan River retained it's name Palestine and was given to the Jews for their homeland. The Arabs protested this arrangement. Therefore, the matter was brought to the United Nations. The United Nations then decided to divide the land that was given to the Jews under the British Mandate. Half was given to the Muslims and the rest to the Jews. The Jews accepted the UN decision, but the Muslims rejected it.

The Jewish people got tired of waiting and decided to take whatever land the United Nations gave to them regardless of the fact that the Muslims protested. In 1948, they took what the UN gave to them and declared their nation of Israel and the British withdrew from Palestine. After that, 7 Arab nations attacked Israel. Israel came out victorious despite that she lost 1% of her population. You can read the details of on the weblink below:

http://www.mideastwe...riefhistory.htm

Great topic and answers.

Nebula is correct about the tern "Jew" coming out of Babylon (the people were Idol worshipers), Abraham is called the "first Jew" and he was called out of Babylon to go to a land that God shall show him (the land of Israel), I had always thought that it came from the word Judah, but I was ignorant at the time.

Selene, the name Palestine was mean to spite the Hebrews, it is reference to the Philistines who were Canaanite's, the Philistines were a thorn in Israels side until David established his kingdom.

The Diaspora (Dispersed) were shattered toward the four winds of the earth, Diaspora, to the heart of God and the people of Israel were considered "seed" sown in the Earth. They were largely in Russia, Poland, and Germany.

God promised an in-gathering of his people Israel in the last days, there or some that doubt that this is the final gathering

God bless you for asking, JTC, and God bless our continued discussion. Great Topic.

[gdemoss]

Nebula is correct about the tern "Jew" coming out of Babylon (the people were Idol worshipers), Abraham is called the "first Jew" and he was called out of Babylon to go to a land that God shall show him (the land of Israel), I had always thought that it came from the word Judah, but I was ignorant at the time.

Where was Abraham called the first Jew?

The words Jew and Judah are very closely related.

Yĕhuwdah and Yĕhuwdiy where one is Patronymically connected to the other.

Gary

[He giveth more grace]

Abraham is called the "first Jew".

Where was Abraham called the first Jew?

Bad on me, you're right, it was a figment.

[JohnD]

I have seen a lot of pro-Palestinian rhetoric here in this thread. Not surprising given the spirit of antisemitism is not bounded by Gentile-born Christians. Think not?

Acid test:

God's chosen people (of the world) are still Jews. Do you believe this?

Romans 11:28 (NKJV)

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.

We are the elect / chosen of heaven ambassadors to this world whose home and mother is the Jerusalem above (Galatians 4:21-31).

But your ire was worked up when I posed the question wasn't it?

Why?

Because non-Jews have a jealousy and a hatred that comes from where they do not know... or do they? They just don't want to admit to themselves that it is from the devil.

The devil hates Jewish people with a purple faced passion. Because despite their flaws, they ushered the Truth into this realm in two forms: the written form the Bible God's Word (through their priesthood), and the Truth Personified Jesus the Christ Son of the living God (through their lineage). And they have suffered at the hand of the evil one from the beginning for these facts.

Let us also remember that the Holy Land is the Lord's.

Leviticus 25:23 (NKJV)

23 ‘The land shall not be sold permanently, for the land is Mine; for you are strangers and sojourners with Me.

And the people God sublets the land to are the descendents of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Not Abraham's Keturan descendants nor his Hagari descendents. Not through Isaac's Esau descendants. But Abraham - Isaac - Jacob descendants.

Ezekiel 37 speaks of God returning the scattered Jews to the Holy Land and this began in WWI with a prominent Jewish inventor inventing smokeless gunpowder which gave the British the edge they needed to win WWI. He was offered a king's ransom reward for his invention but only wanted a homeland for his Jewish people. "It just so happened" (there is no such thing as coincidence) the British had nearly all of the holy land:

The original draft of Balfour's declaration would have given that entire mandate (British held territory) to the Jews. This brought unrest to the region and to officials in Britain. Antisemitism reaches into every human sector. Also Hashem, the leader of Bedouins in the Transjordan area, declared Transjordan their homeland. Nomads have no homeland, but the British under secretary Churchill granted them this 2/3 of the British Mandate. The Jews were not too worked up about it. After all they holy land was still on their side of the Jordan river. Then came other bellyaching nomads and a small number of Arab settlers who live in what Mark Twain described as:

Mark Twain visited Israel in 1867, and published his impressions in Innocents Abroad. He described a desolate country – devoid of both vegetation and human population:

“….. A desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds… a silent mournful expanse…. a desolation…. we never saw a human being on the whole route…. hardly a tree or shrub anywhere. Even the olive tree and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil, had almost deserted the country.”

Those "natives" who lived there (squatters in God's eyes) did not take care of the land nor care about it in any particular way... until the Jews wanted it back. Balfour was doing this around 1915 or so (some 50 years after Twain's visit). It's as though the squatters didn't care about the and and the land rejected the foreigners on it.

The bellyaching continued until Israel was whittled down to this before the actual declaration was implemented in 1948:

Still the Jews did not complain and were happy to have any home in the holy land.

Any gain of land in present day Israel is due to the outcome of wars fought that the Jews did not start. Eventually the Arabs learned it's better to bellyache to the League of Nations / United Nations than to fight Israel outright. And the opinions formed even here on this board in this thread are shaped by the bellyachers and the public opinions formed by these artists of controlling your thoughts.

Oh, and the "palestinians" were not a settled people west of the Jordan river. They were from Jordan and were expelled as anarchists. Israel (the Jews) welcomed then into their land... and the hell and the killing and terrorist attacks they have in Israel are the thanks they get.

THAT'S the claim they have on the holy land.

God gave it to them, and when he brought them back he put Britain over the land to insure the people would get the homeland back.

Incidentally, for all their giving into the the Arabs Britain went from a world Empire to a single nation in less than a generation.

You should read up on the various wars fought in Israel since 1948, who stared them, and how Israel grew at one point possessing even the Sinai peninsula. You should also read how the land itself has come back to life again.

[joi]

Good post John DB.

Today Israel is approx. 300 miles long and at one point about 9 miles wide. Usurpers have stolen

the rest of the land, which by the way, God calls His heritage in Jer. 2:7 and Joel 3:2

[JohnD]

Good post John DB.

Today Israel is approx. 300 miles long and at one point about 9 miles wide. Usurpers have stolen

the rest of the land, which by the way, God calls His heritage in Jer. 2:7 and Joel 3:2

Thanks.

And FYI, the "palestinians" will NEVER be satisfied with a home state that exists along side Israel.

The goal is not to coexist with Israel but to eliminate Israel at any and all costs. Period. And anyone who deals with the situation without considering this is a fool.

And let us not forget the boundaries of Israel God promised to Abraham (which have yet to be realized):

Genesis 15:18 (NASB95)

18 On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, “To your descendants I have given this land, From the river of Egypt as far as the great river, the river Euphrates:

[JohnD]

Through the ages of the great hostile take over under Emperor Constantine (which appeared to be just the opposite... there is a way that seems right to man but the ends thereof are the ways of death) and the half-vast attempts to reform since then... the Church has managed to divorce itself from Israel and Jewry... when Spiritual Israel and Spiritual Jews were the goal of God all along and unto future eternity.

Jeremiah 31:31-34 (NASB95)

31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,

32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord.

33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

34 “They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Romans 2:28-29 (NASB95)

28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.

29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

John 4:24 (NASB95)

24 “God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

Philippians 3:3 (NASB95)

3 for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh,

John 4:20-24 (NASB95)

20 “Our fathers worshiped in this mountain, and you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.”

21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.

22 “You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.

23 “But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

24 “God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

From the Jews? From Christ... from God... the KJV (IMHO) translates this best as "salvation is OF the Jews."

Meaning faith in the Jewish Messiah makes one a Spirit Jew. It does not make one a physical Jew. Only God and (physical) Jewish parents can do that.

Note the distinction here...

Romans 9:1-8 (NASB95)

1 I am telling the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience testifies with me in the Holy Spirit,

2 that I have great sorrow and unceasing grief in my heart.

3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh,

4 who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises,

5 whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.

6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;

7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your descendants will be named.”

8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

We unwittingly and in some cases unwillingly are part of a JEWISH faith a JEWISH plan for the salvation of mankind. Revelation 13:8 assures us this was the plan since before the world began. The lamb slain from the foundations of the world. And God is not finished with the Jewish children of the flesh as is evident in the regathering of Israel and the outcome of the wars since and the fact that there will be a Great Tribulation.

What?

Yes!

A Great Tribulation serves no purpose for a non-maniacal God except to coax the surviving Jews at that point in history to cry out to Jesus of Nazareth as a last resort. And the look on their faces when he comes to personally save them will be P R I C E L E S S ! ! !