Sell It to the Marines

[Steff]

Sell It to the Marines

A remarkable 'Washington Post' piece, based on interviews with a dozen disgruntled Marines in Iraq, reveals why they won't play dummy for Rummy. One says: "The reality right now is that the most dangerous opinion in the world is the opinion of a U.S. serviceman."

By Greg Mitchell

NEW YORK (October 10, 2004) -- Last year, every time I put Iraq and Vietnam in the same sentence, I'd soon receive a barrage of letters mocking the very idea. If I had a dollar for every e-mail like that, I'd have enough money to treat my soon-to-be-draft-age son, and a few of his friends, to an upcoming Green Day concert. But now the mockery has stopped. The ones laughing least are U.S. military personnel in Iraq.

So here's one more Iraq/Vietnam connection: We've been through this movie before, in the 1960s, with brave American reporters interviewing even braver American soldiers, whose words reveal why this war is a mess, a tragedy, and a crime.

Two weeks ago, the most honest and important writing from Iraq came in the form of a private e-mail composed by Wall Street Journal reporter Farnaz Fassihi. Now, on the front page of Sunday's Washington Post, we have a must-read piece by Steve Fainaru based on interviews with a dozen Marines based in Babil province, south of Iraq.

When Post readers picked up the paper on Sunday, it was Good Morning, Vietnam.

"The reality right now is that the most dangerous opinion in the world is the opinion of a U.S. serviceman," Lance Cpl. Devin Kelly told Fainaru.

Added Lance Cpl. Alexander Jones: "We're basically proving out that the government is wrong. We're catching them in a lie."

Their mortar platoon is part of the 1st Battalion, 2nd Marine Regiment, which has taken heavy casualties lately, including four deaths. Among other dangers, they have faced an average of one road bomb a day over the past two months.

Lance Cpl. Carlos Perez, a firefighter from Long Island, N.Y., joined the Marine Corps "to take revenge" for the 9/11 attacks. After two months in Iraq, he said: "Sometimes I see no reason why we're here."

The Post's Fainaru commented that Perez was "hardly alone." In interviews, Marines "expressed in blunt terms their frustrations with the way the war is being conducted and, in some cases, doubts about why it is being waged. ... The Marines' opinions have been shaped by their participation in hundreds of hours of operations over the past two months." Their assessments differ sharply from the more optimistic forecasts of the interim Iraqi government and the Bush administration.

"I feel we're going to be here for years and years and years," said Lance Cpl. Edward Elston. "I don't think anything is going to get better; I think it's going to get a lot worse. It's going to be like a Palestinian-type deal. We're going to stop being a policing presence and then start being an occupying presence. ... We're always going to be here. We're never going to leave."

The Post article appeared on the day Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld spoke at a town hall meeting for Marines during his weekend visit to Iraq. The Marines were warned beforehand, however, not to ask any questions about when the United States might start withdrawing forces.

According to Fainaru, several members of the platoon were struck by the difference between the way the war was being portrayed in the press back in the United States and the reality of their daily lives.

"Every day you read the articles in the States where it's like, 'Oh, it's getting better and better,'" said Lance Cpl. Jonathan Snyder. "But when you're here, you know it's worse every day."

Why the disconnect? According to Pfc. Kyle Maio, government officials might be reticent to speak candidly because of the upcoming U.S. elections. "Stuff's going on here but they won't flat-out say it," he said. "They can't get into it."

Maj. Douglas Bell, the battalion's executive officer, told the Post reporter that Marines offering dire predictions for Iraq were not taking into account the training of the new Iraqi security forces, which would lay the foundation for the withdrawal of U.S. troops.

But Lance Cpl. Matthew Combs told Fainaru, referring to these Iraqis: "They can't take care of themselves. ... They just do what we tell them to do."

Some of the Marines offered their own interpretation of Why We Are In Vietnam, er, Iraq. Lance Cpl. Perez, the Marine who joined to take revenge for 9/11, now feels: "We're supposed to be looking for al Qaeda. They're the ones who are supposedly responsible for the Sept. 11 attacks. This has no connection at all to Sept. 11 because this war started just by telling us about all the nuclear warheads over here."

Lance Cpl. Snyder added: "Pretty much I think they just diverted the war on terrorism."

And just as American soldiers in Vietnam often expressed great sympathy for the natives and sought to help them, Perez now finds that "every time you go out, people give you bad looks and it just seems like everybody wants to shoot you."

Lest anyone think these Marines don't speak for many others: The group Military Families Speak Out now represents more than 1,700 families.

Meanwhile, a Gallup Poll released on October 12 reveals that 54% of American now say it was "not worth going to war in Iraq." This is up from 48% in early September.

Fainaru closes his article with the kind of absurd dark humor that became a staple among Americans in Vietnam by the late-1960s. He reports that when he asked the platoon's radio operator, Cpl. Brandon Autin, 21, if he was worried about the Marines being punished for speaking out, he replied, "We don't give a crap. What are they going to do, send us to Iraq?"

[ted]

Ok, I'll go first.

I have no way of confirming any of the quotes here so we'll just take them as true in faith, right? I'm sure there were many other words that were edited out of the Marine's conversations, but who cares, right?

Judging the entire effort on the basis of a few disgruntled, lower ranking, tired and shaken people is not the smartest thing to do. After climbing the ranks from the bottom (A few times ) I can tell you that one thing lower enlisted guys do the best is vent. There's another word for it, but we will stay with that one. I did a lot of it, along with 97% (my estimation) of the rest of those in uniform. We take bad situations and make the best of them. We take everything in and work the solutions in our minds and sit around and make it work. The trouble is, we see only a small piece of the picture. It's natural to talk about all the bad of a situation to vent, but I can guarantee that after they get home, get showered up and have a chance to be themselves again, they will be the proudest people in the world. There will be no end to the stories of just how much they did over there. Just listen to a few when you are in a place to eat or other public places. Listen to them describe how well they did their job and how they are proud to be vets in service to their country.

Too bad a reporter won't be there to catch that side of it. And too bad not many here will post that side of it, also.

I think maybe if you had a better sense of who we are that have actually gone over and done some of this, you wouldn't be so quick to condemn the entire situation based on the comments of 3 or 4 tired, worn out kids that are miles from home getting shot at.

Amen.

t.

[tako]

HI, I second that TED, Just more PROPAGADA, Same Anti-war Anti-American VIETNAM tactics used to confuse the AMERICAN PEOPLE WHY WE'RE FIGHTING IN IRAQ..........TAKO

[hmh]

Does the news media want us to suceed in Iraq or not? It seems that they are so dead set on making the US look bad that the news media will do anything to show the world that the United States is the single worse country in the world. Anybody can show a negative side to any story, why concentrate on the negative all of the time? Why hasn't the news media shown the good that really has been done in Iraq, as well as the true support the Iraqi people give the American troops that are helping them? Why hasn't the news media reported that a vast majority of the "insurgents" are really from Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, and other countries that support terrorists? Between falsifying documents, voter fraud, and out right lies, the liberal left in this country has done everything short of murder to take over the power in this country. Let's try this for good measure, pray for our country, for our troops, and for our leadership in that good, solid Christian and Jewish Godly principals is what is used to guide our great nation, not deceitful lies by the ungodly. :sam: :prayer

[Guest yod]

Anybody can show a negative side to any story, why concentrate on the negative all of the time?

do you really not know?

I can tell you exactly why....and it's the same reason Steff posted this propoganda.

They hate Bush SO MUCH that they can't stand the thought of him winning re-election even at the expense of our nation.

and they REALLY can't stomach the thought of him being remembered as the great President he has become.

[hmh]

Anybody can show a negative side to any story, why concentrate on the negative all of the time?

do you really not know?

I can tell you exactly why....and it's the same reason Steff posted this propoganda.

They hate Bush SO MUCH that they can't stand the thought of him winning re-election even at the expense of our nation.

and they REALLY can't stomach the thought of him being remembered as the great President he has become.

Oh I know why, and the reason is exactly like you said, THEY HATE BUSH! It really disgusts me that there is such a hatred for a president who is a Christian and does not hide that fact. It seems that there was more respect for a lying, cheating, disgraceful, and set a bad example for a president when Clinton and her husband were in office than someone who is honest and sincere and is setting a good example of how a president and first lady should be in that office. Keep praying for our country. :sam: :prayer

[Guest yod]

The notion of being honorable is sooooo far from them that they can't believe he is who he says he is.

It's just not a concept they can readily grasp!

Therefore, in their minds, he MUST be trying to fool everyone. :suspect:

[Steff]

I only need examine his record to see that he isn't who he says he is Yod.

Regardless of his status as a christian he is a horrible president.

He lies

He fails to uphold the constitution, which is his primary job

He fails to make us any safer, while claiming to do so

He has outspent the last 3 presidents in office on discretionary non-military spending.

Bush is a bad president, I want him out of office but as I said I'm not willing to vote for Kerry to do so.

[papasangel]

Ok Steff,

What would you do in the President's shoes? Come on please enlighten us how you would go about the correct way to combat the Chaos of the world?

You might not like his methods but Bush has shown the world that America is not their doormat. He is doing his best (remember he is human and can only act with congressional approval) in a situation in which no matter what decision he makes will earn him jeers and boos from those who think differently.

No I don't like war, too many innocents get caught in the crossfire but sometime, womewhere we have to take a stand and tell these thugs that we aren't going to take their crap anymore.

And remember ALL politicians lie when their lips are flapping. He has had to make some really tough decisions and I am sure he spends much time thinking of those who are killed and wounded in a war not on our soil. Take into account the past several presidents have ignored threats to our country and so allowed 911 to happen I think he is pretty much justified in spending money to ensure that it will not happen again on our soil. Are we safer? Yes and no. Safety is relative and terrorists can dream up some pretty wild schemes to create havoc.

How has he not upheld the constitution? I don't understand that one myself. Other presidents have ignored the constitution when it was convienent and no one said a word. But Bush is getting whacked every time.

No he has not made every decision that I agree with but I can see the necessity of some of the decisions he has made. He never has said he was perfect and no matter who is in office the same rule would apply.

[Steff]

Ok Steff,

What would you do in the President's shoes? Come on please enlighten us how you would go about the correct way to combat the Chaos of the world?

You might not like his methods but Bush has shown the world that America is not their doormat. He is doing his best (remember he is human and can only act with congressional approval) in a situation in which no matter what decision he makes will earn him jeers and boos from those who think differently.

Here's my list (Not necessarily in any order):

1. Begin an exit strategy for Iraq and most of the other 130 countries we have troops stationed at. We have had a military presence in Japan, Germany, France and other countries since WW2, it's time we had an exit strategy. Use our military for self defense only, don't fight uneccesary wars that make us less secure and are not defensive in nature.

2. Get us out of the UN by putting pressure on congress through the media. This includes stopping all funding of the UN.

3. Quit poking other countries in the eye with a sharp stick politically. Let them know any action they take with people who intend to harm this country will not be tolerated. We will go after individuals, not countries.

4. Abolish all executive orders. Put pressure on congress to amend the constitution to ban executive orders.

5. Phase out income tax.

6. Phase out welfare

7. Give people the option of privatizing social security over a slow phaseout.

8. Stop sending money to foregin countries. We are not a world handout.

9. Eliminate all trade agreements. Free trade across the board with a standard excise tax on all imports. No favored nation status.

10. Trim the budget so that the government spends only what is necessary.

11. Phase out subsidies on oil.

12. Put pressure on congress to legislate limits on what the judiciary may preside over.

13. Remove all unfair campaign legislation through pressure on congress through the media.

14. A yearly report to the american people on all the unconstitutional things congress tries to pass and who voted for them.

15. Elimination of all corprate welfare. If your company goes under, too bad, make better business decisions.

16. Eliminate the war on drugs and stop putting non-violent drug offenders in prison. Work on a better plan for legalizing some drugs and a better plan for combatting ones that are dangerous.

17. Pressure congress into keeping government in its constituional bounds.

18. Put the abortion issue back in states hands, not federal ones. Lobby for the unborn to be declared as individuals, and thus they have rights.