WailingWall Posted October 13, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 458 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/25/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted October 13, 2012 1COR.15 [50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. The above scripture points out that “we shall all be changed” as the LAST TRUMPET is blown. MATTHEW 24 [29]IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send his angels with A GREAT SOUND OF A TRUMPET, and THEY SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Here we find a trumpet being blown after the tribulation period. No matter how ya figure it, you cannot have the LAST TRUMPET being blown before the tribulation or at mid tribulation if a trumpet is being blown AFTER the tribulation. Whats your explaination? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted October 13, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 13, 2012 Wailing Wall ... Man has proven to be able to explain away anything in scripture they do not agree with. Stick to what the bible says and continue to study His words. The Holy Spirit will teach you as you seek the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WailingWall Posted October 13, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 458 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/25/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 13, 2012 Thanks OneLight I really do try and stick only to what the bible says. Some 25 years ago or so after reading all the warnings in the new testament about following false teachers i decided to throw out all i had heard and that which man had taught me and simply believe the written word. Even here with my 1st question about the "last trumpet", no answer was givin why the last trumpet isnt really the last trumpet. Instead some one trys to misdirect the question by sending me to somewhere else. Its a simple question and id like it to be answered here. Thats why im here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WailingWall Posted October 13, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 458 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/25/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 13, 2012 1COR.15 [50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. The above scripture points out that “we shall all be changed” as the LAST TRUMPET is blown. MATTHEW 24 [29]IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send his angels with A GREAT SOUND OF A TRUMPET, and THEY SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Here we find a trumpet being blown after the tribulation period. No matter how ya figure it, you cannot have the LAST TRUMPET being blown before the tribulation or at mid tribulation if a trumpet is being blown AFTER the tribulation. Whats your explaination? Another thing. In Matthew 24 {after the tribulation} theres a gathering of the elect after the trumpet is blown. Do the rapturist believe this is another rapture? When God does gather His elect i dont think He will do it by mass transit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zemke Posted October 13, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,028 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 451 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/24/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted October 13, 2012 1COR.15 [50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. The above scripture points out that “we shall all be changed” as the LAST TRUMPET is blown. MATTHEW 24 [29]IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send his angels with A GREAT SOUND OF A TRUMPET, and THEY SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Here we find a trumpet being blown after the tribulation period. No matter how ya figure it, you cannot have the LAST TRUMPET being blown before the tribulation or at mid tribulation if a trumpet is being blown AFTER the tribulation. Whats your explaination? Another thing. In Matthew 24 {after the tribulation} theres a gathering of the elect after the trumpet is blown. Do the rapturist believe this is another rapture? When God does gather His elect i dont think He will do it by mass transit. There are differences between this scripture and Jesus coming on a white horse with an army on horses and if you notice it says tribulation of those days. As far as I know it doesn't say "after the great tribulation".. Also notice what "is" listed as tribulation. And the absence of many judgements listed in Revelation. The only things that are listed are aspects of tribulation that the church has always dealt with. But the most spoken of warning by Jesus is deception. So onelights message of just sticking with scripture is exactly spot on. Oh, sorry, I just went back and read your response about the last trump that clarified your questioning. Well take what I've said as you will. I am always waiting on more understanding as these sections of scripture become unsealed so to speak. The best thing is to keep reading and eating what is written. The whole senario of Revelation will unfold to the faithful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted October 13, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 13, 2012 Thanks OneLight I really do try and stick only to what the bible says. Some 25 years ago or so after reading all the warnings in the new testament about following false teachers i decided to throw out all i had heard and that which man had taught me and simply believe the written word. Even here with my 1st question about the "last trumpet", no answer was givin why the last trumpet isnt really the last trumpet. Instead some one trys to misdirect the question by sending me to somewhere else. Its a simple question and id like it to be answered here. Thats why im here. Misdirecting is a strong statement. Many do believe in what man writes and follow the ideas of others, believing they have it right. If it does not line up with scripture, than it is wrong. The Last Trumpet is just what it says it is, the Last Trumpet. Look also into Revelation 16:15, where Christ reminds us that He comes as a thief, which is in reference to Matthew 24:43, 1 Thessalonians 5:2 and 2 Peter 3:10. The mentioning of the thief in Revelation comes after the 6th bowl, just before the final bowl judgment is poured out. The problem I have with pretrib is if Christ came for the church before the tribulation begins, He must be coming a second time after the 6th bowl, which there is no backing in scripture for. Jesus is only returning for His church once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted October 13, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,247 Content Per Day: 3.32 Reputation: 16,658 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted October 13, 2012 1 Thess 1:10; 4:13-1; 5:9 Also speaks of the day we will be snatched away to be with the Lord. It is further said: For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. And to wait for His Son from heaven whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come. Luke 21:36 Watch therefore and pray always that you man be counted worthy to escape all these things what will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man. The wrath of God is otherwise called the GREAT tribulation. In Mt 24:3 the apostles first asked Jesus what would be the sign of His coming. So Jesus answered this question first in verses 4-14 of the things leading up to the Great Tribulation, the revelation of the AntiChrist as the beginning of the Great Tribulation, and then the Coming of the Son of Man which will be seen by all the tribes of the earth. The signs of it will be very clear to all men. He shall come with His saints to reign. The second part of the question in V. 4 regards the end of the age (a period of time). These people will be caught totally off guard. It can happen at any time and we should all be expecting it at any time. At some time between these two events is the judgement of the works of the saints for the purpose of being given rewards. Also is the Marriage Feast of the Lamb in heaven. It occurrs between the Church, the Bride of Christ, and Christ, the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the World. The Church returns with Christ when He comes again with power. Read Rev. 19. The Church is in heaven, the marriage feast of the Lamb occurrs, and the Church returns with Christ to defeat the antichrist. I see little to show that true believers go through the Wrath of God. A remnant is marked in Isreal who will be saved, and there will be those gentiles who will be saved during the tribulation, many martyred and some survive. But all indications are that the Church should pray that we be found worthy to escape the wrath. I call this escape the snatching up or rapturo of the saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted October 13, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 13, 2012 1 Thess 1:10; 4:13-1; 5:9 Also speaks of the day we will be snatched away to be with the Lord. It is further said: For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. And to wait for His Son from heaven whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come. Luke 21:36 Watch therefore and pray always that you man be counted worthy to escape all these things what will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man. The wrath of God is otherwise called the GREAT tribulation. In Mt 24:3 the apostles first asked Jesus what would be the sign of His coming. So Jesus answered this question first in verses 4-14 of the things leading up to the Great Tribulation, the revelation of the AntiChrist as the beginning of the Great Tribulation, and then the Coming of the Son of Man which will be seen by all the tribes of the earth. The signs of it will be very clear to all men. He shall come with His saints to reign. The second part of the question in V. 4 regards the end of the age (a period of time). These people will be caught totally off guard. It can happen at any time and we should all be expecting it at any time. At some time between these two events is the judgement of the works of the saints for the purpose of being given rewards. Also is the Marriage Feast of the Lamb in heaven. It occurrs between the Church, the Bride of Christ, and Christ, the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the World. The Church returns with Christ when He comes again with power. Read Rev. 19. The Church is in heaven, the marriage feast of the Lamb occurrs, and the Church returns with Christ to defeat the antichrist. I see little to show that true believers go through the Wrath of God. A remnant is marked in Isreal who will be saved, and there will be those gentiles who will be saved during the tribulation, many martyred and some survive. But all indications are that the Church should pray that we be found worthy to escape the wrath. I call this escape the snatching up or rapturo of the saints. Yes, that is what I believed for many years, taught to me by other men. Then when I started studying for myself, this did not fit as nicely as they put it. I have full confidence that we will be caught up to be with Christ in the clouds. The question is when. Escape does not have to mean taken out of. It also means protect from. Did God remove His people in Egypt when He brought the plagues upon the Egyptians, or did He make a way through, protecting them who obeyed from the plagues? When God brought the great flood upon the earth, did He take Noah's family out of the situation, or did He make a means for them to be protected through this time? As God has moved in the past, He will move again. I have found nowhere where God had "transported" His people out of a situation, but always made a way through, bringing glory to God. Christ will not return until after the judgments of God are complete. He can call us to be with Him between the last bowl judgment and His return. Still there is no proof of a secret rapture, or Christ would have to have two comings before Armageddon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WailingWall Posted October 13, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 458 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/25/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 13, 2012 (edited) The wrath of God is otherwise called the GREAT tribulation. Can you prove this with scripture? Alls ive found is the Day of the Lord is the day of Gods wrath. Not the trib period. But if you can show me scripture that says otherwise please do so. Also could you answer the original question as to why the last trumpet isnt really the last trumpet Edited October 13, 2012 by WailingWall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WailingWall Posted October 13, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 458 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/25/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 13, 2012 (edited) this is a very easy topic to understand when you have ALL the important info taken into account,,,nearly all people who do not get it ..seem to always leave out some scriptures that make it easy to understand....very easy...but when you try to understand without all scripture it will be difficult Well Danielzk, lets see those scriptures. I wanna understand. Maybe you could start by showing me scripture proving the "last trumpet" of 1Cor.15 isnt really the last trumpet. Not being a smart aleck. Just wanna know why people believe what they do and if its backed up by scripture. Edited October 13, 2012 by WailingWall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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