Rapture Questions

[gdemoss]

This is exactly what I refer to ......you take what is written and alter it ,mold it into what you want it to mean and completely avoiding what it really means ..

When Jesus returns he brings with him born again believers to rule and reign with him,,the only way that can be is for the saints to already have their glorified incorruptible bodies ,,when Jesus returns he has a physical body and so does the saints,,,they come with Jesus at the moment when Jesus leaves heaven to come to earth ,,there is no such scripture that even hints at the rapture happening after Jesus return ,,that notion is 100% entirely the misinterpretation of those who refuse to accept 100% of all scriptures that speak of the rapture,,,as it has been said many times ,leave out much of scripture it has the effect of being whittled down to fit what you want it to mean,,simple principle saints "to rule and reign with Christ" a person has received their immortal incorruptible glorified body Before Jesus comes to earth to rule and reign .

there simply is no sufficient logical reasoning that can fit into saying the rapture happens after the return,,,that be like saying that the family is coming with you to the thanksgiving dinner , only to have to go pick them up at home to bring them to dinner after you have arrived for dinner,,if they come with you they are physically present with you ,,scripture clearly states that the saints are coming with Jesus to rule and reign with him

do some research on the BEMA seat of Christ,,also known as the Judgment Seat of Christ....All Christians will be judged according to their works,,be it physical or their teachings

anyone who has doubts should be willing to spend time investigating all possibilities , not expecting that other people should do the research for someone else,,when a person puts forth their own time and energy they will learn and absorb more than simply reading another persons post in a forum..it comes down to if a person really wants to learn . It takes time and study

I have studied. Your just upset because I did not come the same conclusion as you. I have never said that the rapture happens after the return. You have decided to believe that is what I said. I have said that it happens simultaneously and is necessary for the unifying of the body but you reject it because you believe that the scripture states there is a bema seat judgment where believers are rewarded according to their good works while there bad ones are burnt up. You will be surprised when you find out that judgment happens here upon the earth and not in heaven. But I am not insane that I should think that I could somehow reason with you and impart understanding unto you as Jesus himself showed that understanding truth is dependent upon obedience to the truth previously given. That doctrine cannot simply be built by personal study but by study followed by application followed by more study. It is called progressive sanctification. Walking in the light one has been given will give more light. Walking in darkness but trying to study the light without application of the light to dispel darkness will only bring about great darkness. Darkness that will be destroyed by the brightness of his coming. I seek to obey and walk in that light so I know I cannot simply reason with others except they obey the true light of life and walk in the Spirit of our Great God and King.

Gary:

The gospel must reach the whole globe..... with that.. time as according to Peter because of Grace is given. we have some years left.... but this generation....possibly.

Jesus Is Lord.

Thanks Mike for seeking to help me understand as you do. I merely do the same for you.

Gary

[WailingWall]

Scripture states outright that the saints will be with Jesus seen in the clouds as he returns ,,they are already with Jesus having been already resurrected and present with Christ as he comes down out of heaven when he returns. These saints are people who have accepted Jesus as savoir BEFORE Jesus returns ,,all the way back though history ,they are Christians and the OT believers who were in Abrahan bosom that Jesus took to heaven when he went to hades

with keys in hand ,,,but some people still want to say that it is only those of OT times even though there is no scripture that says anything at all like that, but even if it did it still shows that they are resurrected people from earth,,which still shows a resurrection BEFORE Jesus returns to earth..

This topic has so much info on it that post tribbers don't want to include inc their posts because they have no good way to explain away all of the other scriptures so instead they choose to pretend that the numerous other scriptures do not exist because that is the only way they can hold their position,,as it makes no sense at all to pretend that the saints are not with Jesus as he comes to earth,,

You say so many things that are simply not true

JUDE 1 [14] And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, THE LORD COMETH WITH TEN THOUSANDS OF HIS SAINTS,[15] To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

The Lord does cometh with ten thousands of his saints

DEUT.33 [1] And this is the blessing, wherewith Moses the man of God blessed the children of Israel before his death.[2] And he said, THE LORD CAME FROM SINAI, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and HE CAME WITH TEN THOUSANDS OF SAINTS: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.[3] Yea, he loved the people; all his saints are in thy hand: and they sat down at thy feet; every one shall receive of thy words.[4] Moses commanded us a law, even the inheritance of the congregation of Jacob.

Here we find "ten thousand of saints" comin round the mountain when they come. These could not be amoung those who were "rapsured" as these "ten thousand of saints" were there at Sinai at about the time the 10 commandments were givin. They will be coming with Jesus.

[WailingWall]

What did Paul mean by falling away? How is that Greek Word translated. If it means to depart, then we leave before the Antichrist is revealed. If it means the Church and corruptions, then we are here when the antichrist shows up.

2 THES. 2 [1]Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, [2] That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. [3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, EXCEPT THERE COME A FALLING AWAY FIRST, and that MAN OF SIN BE REVEALED, THE SON OF PERDITION; [4] WHO OPPOSETH AND EXALTETH HIMSELF ABOVE ALL THAT IS CALLED GOD, OR THAT IS WORSHIPPED; SO THAT HE AS GOD SITTETH IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD, SHEWING HIMSELF THAT HE IS GOD. [5] Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

2THES.2 {a falling away} {bad guy exalts himself above all that is called God}

DANIEL 11 {many shall fall} {bad guy exalts himself above every God}

DANIEL 11 [32] And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits. [33] And THEY THAT UNDERSTAND AMONG THE PEOPLE SHALL INSTRUCT MANY: YET THEY SHALL FALL by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days. [34] Now WHEN THEY SHALL FALL, THEY SHALL BE HOLPEN WITH A LITTLE HELP: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. [35] And SOME OF THEM OF UNDERSTANDING SHALL FALL, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed. [36] And the king shall do according to his will; and HE SHALL EXALT HIMSELF, AND MAGNIFY HIMSELF ABOVE EVERY GOD, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

So you see the falling away { 2Thes.2} in Daniel. In Daniel do you see ANYTHING that depicts a rapture? NOPE! We know these scriptures are speaking of the same event as bad guy exalts himself above all Gods in both scriptures and this will happen only once. As you can plainly see its a falling away from the truth. It is not a rapture as some claim

[WailingWall]

DO We escape the Wrath of God.

Does escape mean taken out of here? or put in a cave somewhere? What does that mean? In Danial 12:1 we are told at that time, we are delivered. Jesus refereed to the days of Noah where one is take and one left... Then he goes on to talk about his servants being ready. Is this how we escape? We are taken?

We are not taken

JOHN 17 [14] I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. [15] I PRAY NOT THAT THOU SHOULDEST TAKE THEM OUT OF THE WORLD, BUT THAT THOU SHOULDEST KEEP THEM FROM THE EVIL. [16] They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

ISAIAH 26 [19] THY DEAD MEN SHALL LIVE, TOGETHER WITH MY DEAD BODY SHALL THEY ARISE. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. [20] COME, MY PEOPLE, ENTER THOU INTO THY CHAMBERS, AND SHUT THY DOORS ABOUT THEE: HIDE THYSELF AS IT WERE FOR A LITTLE MOMENT, UNTIL THE INDIGNATION BE OVERPAST. [21] For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Nothing to worry about. Just gotta play a little hide and seek till Gods wrath (His indignation) has passed. You might also notice the dead in Christ rising first (as mentioned in 1 Cor.15).

ZEPH. 2 [1] Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired; [2] Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the Lord come upon you, before the day of the Lord's anger come upon you. [3] SEEK YE THE LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: IT MAY BE YE SHALL BE HID IN THE DAY OF THE LORD'S ANGER.

See? We will be here on earth during the Day of the Lord. But were gonna have a good hiding place.

PROVERBS 3 [24] When thou liest down, thou shalt not be afraid: yea, thou shalt lie down, and thy sleep shall be sweet. [25] BE NOT AFRAID of sudden fear, neither OF THE DESOLATION OF THE WICKED, when it cometh. [26] For THE LORD SHALL BE THY CONFIDENCE, AND SHALL KEEP THY FOOT FROM BEING TAKEN.

Show no fear when Jesus returns to get rid of the bad guys. Like i said...we are not taken

PSALM 9 [5] Thou hast rebuked the heathen, THOU HAST DESTROYED THE WICKED, thou hast put out their name for ever and ever. [6] O thou enemy, destructions are come to a perpetual end: and thou hast destroyed cities; their memorial is perished with them. [7] But the Lord shall endure for ever: he hath prepared his throne for judgment. [8] And he shall judge the world in righteousness, he shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness. [9] THE LORD ALSO WILL BE A REFUGE FOR THE OPPRESSED, A REFUGE IN TIMES OF TROUBLE. [10] And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee: for thou, Lord, hast not forsaken them that seek thee.

PSALM 12 [3] The Lord shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things: [4] Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own: who is lord over us? [5] For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, NOW WILL I ARISE, saith the Lord; I WILL SET HIM IN SAFETY from him that puffeth at him.

We are not apointed to wrath and now we know why. A little game of hide and seek the Lord.

PSALM 37 [7] Rest in the Lord, and WAIT PATIENTLY FOR HIM: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass. [8] Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil. [9] FOR EVILDOERS SHALL BE CUT OFF: BUT THOSE THAT WAIT UPON THE LORD, THEY SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH. [10] For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. [11] But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

Yup. Be patient. The bad guys shall be cut off and the meek shall inherit the earth.

PSALM 27 [5] For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock.[6] And now shall mine head be lifted up above mine enemies round about me: therefore will I offer in his tabernacle sacrifices of joy; I will sing, yea, I will sing praises unto the LORD.[7] Hear, O LORD, when I cry with my voice: have mercy also upon me, and answer me

[WailingWall]

Trumpets:

People love to count... bless their hearts... Paul's "Last Trump" is the sound a trumpet makes though.. not the trumpet and trumpets were always blown in a series of sounds. It's also God's trumpet, and not an angelic trumpet. Trumpets just start and end events... that is all. Is Paul's Last Trump the seventh Angelic Trumpet to end tribulation? Or is it just the last sound in that series and we are taken out of here?

When scripture says its the LAST trumpet to be blown, it will be the Last trumpet to be blown. Anymore comes from a song and dance.

ZECH.9 [14] And the LORD shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and THE LORD GOD SHALL BLOW THE TRUMPET, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south.[15] The LORD of hosts shall defend them; and they shall devour, and subdue with sling stones; and they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like bowls, and as the corners of the altar.[16] And THE LORD THEIR GOD SHALL SAVE THEM IN THAT DAY as the flock of his people: for they shall be as the stones of a crown, lifted up as an ensign upon his land.[17] For how great is his goodness, and how great is his beauty! corn shall make the young men cheerful, and new wine the maids.

Edited October 20, 2012 by WailingWall

[ENOCH2010]

Gary I am making the point that you say things that are not taking into consideration of ALL scripture,,simple example is if you say something in a letter that expresses what you believe ,,then you write a letter latter in time and someone else reads it and thinks it means something else and you are not around to state exactly what you meant then it becomes open to interpretation by the reader,,,so if the reader wants an accurate full and complete understanding they must read all other letters that speak of the same topic written by that person and those writings by people who have the same beliefs and same teachings as the writer of the letter they are reading,,thus in regards to the topic of the rapture and return of Christ a person needs to read and understand ALL scriptures in ALL books of the bible and use them all to see what is being taught..To use only a couple is leaving out much information that helps clarify what is being taught. People who have a particular teaching that they want put forth will intentionally leave out scriptures that go a direction that they do not want to go..

Scripture states outright that the saints will be with Jesus seen in the clouds as he returns ,,they are already with Jesus having been already resurrected and present with Christ as he comes down out of heaven when he returns. These saints are people who have accepted Jesus as savoir BEFORE Jesus returns ,,all the way back though history ,they are Christians and the OT believers who were in Abrahan bosom that Jesus took to heaven when he went to hades

with keys in hand ,,,but some people still want to say that it is only those of OT times even though there is no scripture that says anything at all like that, but even if it did it still shows that they are resurrected people from earth,,which still shows a resurrection BEFORE Jesus returns to earth..

This topic has so much info on it that post tribbers don't want to include inc their posts because they have no good way to explain away all of the other scriptures so instead they choose to pretend that the numerous other scriptures do not exist because that is the only way they can hold their position,,as it makes no sense at all to pretend that the saints are not with Jesus as he comes to earth,,and it makes no sense to say that Jesus will come to earth the go back up into heaven to call for the dead in Christ and the living in Christ to be called up into heaven/the clouds just to come back down ,,the post trib scenario just makes no sense,

It can be good to use scripture to make a point ,but when people refuse to use all of what is available it has little value,,there is so much scripture that it requires very long posts to state the scriptures and how they apply,,and to do so repeatedly for those who refuse to use all scripture is simply a lot of time typing to those who refuse to accept ALL of the LORDS Word when it refutes what they say

it not feasible ,,but still if that is what you choose to believe at least be respectful to other brothers in Christ by simply rejoicing that Christ is about to return and not say things that are not loving in Christ about what others believe,,,point is that there is no one scripture that reveals all and even Paul calls it a mystery ,,,

when people insist that their view is right when they cannot prove it,,,and leaving out many other scriptures to try to prove it is not at all proving anything other than a person is willing to refuse the rest of scripture only to try to show a point be true when it is shown not true when all scripture is used,,,Christ will address all people who try to insist that their view or teaching is right and others are wrong when you refuse to use all scripture that the LORD has given,,and to add into that the posttribbers so often attack pretibbers and that is against Christ teachings,,,believe what you will

To summarize your point: Gary, your wrong. Jesus is going to deal with you when he comes. Your really gonna get it. Scripture does not simply say what it says but is so difficult to explain how it all fits together that I won't bother to take any time to try to prove what I say but simply continue to assert that you are wrong and I am right. Now get behind me and start preaching pretrib!

That about right Daniel?

Gary

This is exactly what I refer to ......you take what is written and alter it ,mold it into what you want it to mean and completely avoiding what it really means ..

When Jesus returns he brings with him born again believers to rule and reign with him,,the only way that can be is for the saints to already have their glorified incorruptible bodies ,,when Jesus returns he has a physical body and so does the saints,,,they come with Jesus at the moment when Jesus leaves heaven to come to earth ,,there is no such scripture that even hints at the rapture happening after Jesus return ,,that notion is 100% entirely the misinterpretation of those who refuse to accept 100% of all scriptures that speak of the rapture,,,as it has been said many times ,leave out much of scripture it has the effect of being whittled down to fit what you want it to mean,,simple principle saints "to rule and reign with Christ" a person has received their immortal incorruptible glorified body Before Jesus comes to earth to rule and reign .

there simply is no sufficient logical reasoning that can fit into saying the rapture happens after the return,,,that be like saying that the family is coming with you to the thanksgiving dinner , only to have to go pick them up at home to bring them to dinner after you have arrived for dinner,,if they come with you they are physically present with you ,,scripture clearly states that the saints are coming with Jesus to rule and reign with him

do some research on the BEMA seat of Christ,,also known as the Judgment Seat of Christ....All Christians will be judged according to their works,,be it physical or their teachings

anyone who has doubts should be willing to spend time investigating all possibilities , not expecting that other people should do the research for someone else,,when a person puts forth their own time and energy they will learn and absorb more than simply reading another persons post in a forum..it comes down to if a person really wants to learn . It takes time and study

Danielzk you do realize all the righteous people that have past since the Lords resurrection are the saints he brings with him when he returns don't you.Then at the last trump we which are alive and remain will be called up to meet them in the air to receive or new bodies. We want be going to a place called heaven, we will be going to Jerusalem to rule and reign with the Lord.

[OneLight]

Onelight:

Sarcasm is not a good trait to carry.

I was just returning a little sharpness you have served me.

Please show me where I have been sarcastic to you. I will need to apologize for such a remark.

.... Just having fun. If the bible says, like in Isaiah the stars get rolled up, and the stars no longer give their light... and the stars where mentioned with the sun and moon (Not being angels as mentioned in REV 3>) then those stars you see are completely removed.That is exactly what the Word says. Meaning.......... the 4th trumpet is going to be missing some important objects when it is blown. I take what I read Literally.

Rightly dividing His word is proper hermeneutics. As I have pointed out many times to you, the Trumpets are not introduced to us until the 7th seal. If you take scripture literally as you say, then why are you not taking this introduction literally?

As for the stars in Revelation 6:13, "And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind.", this cannot mean stars as we know them and it does not include the word "all".

[OneLight]

Onelight.......

Rightly dividing His word is proper hermeneutics. As I have pointed out many times to you, the Trumpets are not introduced to us until the 7th seal. If you take scripture literally as you say, then why are you not taking this introduction literally?

As for the stars in Revelation 6:13, "And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind.", this cannot mean stars as we know them and it does not include the word "all".

You questioned my ability to understand, though we both have studied this. So, I am sorry if my sarcasm was taken wrong... Normally your a bit more "happy" the word? And just poked back...

Herma What??

Hermeneutics is the branch of theology that deals with the principles and methodology of exegesis. Exegesis is the critical explanation or interpretation of a text or portion of a text, especially of the Bible. It means you dig deep in every way, knowing how to interpret scripture properly.

I don't use Herma whatever......... and we are going back and fourth over trumpets and seal orders. Whoever be right, it does not answer the pretrib rapture question...

I have been in more than my share of debates over the timing of the rapture, so I stay our of the "timing" as much as I can. Your statement about the trumpets and seals being concurrent was what I have been discussing with you. So I ask again, what do you do with the 7th seal and the introduction of the 7 trumpets? That is a vital part of understanding Revelation.

So, it's the way we read the Word. Once that is understood, then we understand Each other.

How one studies scripture does not matter. What they call truth from what they take in does.

I read the word literal. If it says it, I believe it.

snip

I personally can't read Rev 8 (then the 7th seal.. silence, then the trumpets were given to seven angels) As a book.

Revelation 8 is not a book, but scripture. Why can't you accept this passage?

It says:

Revelation 8:1-7

When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets. Then another angel, having a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, ascended before God from the angel’s hand. Then the angel took the censer, filled it with fire from the altar, and threw it to the earth. And there were noises, thunderings, lightnings, and an earthquake.

So the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

The first angel sounded: And hail and fire followed, mingled with blood, and they were thrown to the earth. And a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up.

There you have it. Scripture says that after the 7th seal was opened, God gave seven angels seven trumpets, not before. There is no way the seals and the trumpets are concurrent, but are, in fact, asynchronous.

Are you picking and choosing what you believe in scripture? Not mocking, but asking a serious question.

Let's deal with one issue at a time.

[OneLight]

OneLight:

Are you picking and choosing what you believe in scripture? Not mocking, but asking a serious question.

Let's deal with one issue at a time.

No, Not picking and Choosing.. I try my best to not pick someone else belief system and just believe it. Hermeneutics is a man made understanding of how to interpret the word. I am not saying it does not have a single place, but you know the Holy Spirit is the real teacher.

What I picked when I looked at these trumpets is what the Word said, or my understanding of what it said.

Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Hos 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.

All I did was compare the sixth seal, with all the other scriptures that mention it. The word says God gave things here a little and there a little. We are to compare scripture with scripture. Every one I mentioned about the sixth seal all say the same thing, and it brings Jesus, the war following. All have the same exact events, all have the same exact ending, and all happen after the seventh trumpet.

I have several witnesses to when that sixth seal is released, when Jesus comes, and the war.

I have one passage where John ends talking about the seventh seal, and moves on to talking about the trumpets. Just one.

If you want to get into the Greek... there is a break/Pause meaning the events "MAY BE" not consecutive.

AB

Rev 8:2 Then I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets.

Then I saw can mean something in order, or something new........... Mostly likely the Order of What was given to John, not the Order in which the events will happen. You can read it both ways. Rev 12 took place way before Revelation, but was given to John in the Order he had written it. Rev 3 was given for that exact time period, pertaining to Asia Minor (Turkey) for instruction to the seven Churches. That was the Order given to John, but not necessarily the order events occur.

The Term... "And I saw" means I have gotten something new in understanding....I perceived.... This denotes something completely different from the vision of the Seventh seal being released. It can mean different and in order, but only in the order of what John was given, not what occurred.

So that is what I see Onelight.......... I see several scriptures of the same event (Sixth Seal) and I see it's place in the tribulation period... comparing what happens when the sixth seal is released. You may not agree, but I hope you see that I am just not basing things on someones goofy ideology. It's what I actually see.

your the blessed.

Jesus Is Lord.

The problem, my friend is, the word "And" is an inclusive word, not an exclusive word. John witnessed a silence in heaven for half an hour and at the end of the silence, John saw God hand the trumpets out. All through this, you neglect to even discuss the actual verse that tells us that the trumpets were given out after the 7th seal is opened. Nowhere in scripture will you find that this is not the case, no matter how many other verses you bring up to support your theory (your hermeneutics). It is not there. Similarities are fine, as long as they don't change the meaning of one word.

Yes, the Holy Spirit is the first and foremost teacher of scripture, yet we still use hermeneutics when we study. The Holy Spirit will never lie. The error comes when we try to force what He says into a theory we have accepted. We have to allow Him to change us to agree with scripture and scripture does not contradict itself.

Again, you said "I read the word literal. If it says it, I believe it.", but you seem to be ignoring it in this case. Let me break it down for you.

1. When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.
   
2. And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets.
   

These two verses do not show where anything changed. They are inclusive. John was not taken to another place, nor does it say something like "Then I was shown" or any other similar phrase.

I have seen others who believe the same as you, ones who wrote a timeline of when each event happens. Can you provide one to show when you believe the seals were opened to when the trumpets were sounded? Is the image below what you believe?

This is what I believe, because this is how it was shown to John and recorded in Revelation.

[Massorite]

You really need to study what the trumprets are for , when they are used and why ,,again this is just a misunderstanding on your part , here is a deeper longer explantion of the trump

http://voe.mdsone.com/dv/2242576

there is even more info

but you seem intent on attacking things you have not a deep understanding of ,,,simply if you choose not to believe ,,be happy with what you believe ,,, this topic has been covered so many many times ,,

No WallingWall did not misunderstand scripture. You did. The bible is very clear in that we will be here on earth until the last/7th trumpet is sounded. Which also means that we will be here on earth for all of the 6 other trumpets that are blown. Now you can argue about that but you would be arguing with the word of God so look up when you do your arguing.