The Marriage Covenant

[Guest shiloh357]

Robert -

Don't gipe about me using poor debate tactics when you do the same.

The year-old quote bothers me because how do I know you aren't a previously banned poster coming back in with a new username, and you dug up the old quote because you actually remembered that one from before you got banned?

That quote comes from a topic that is so far off from this discussion that it does not seem likely that performing a search for "consistency" would lead you there.

"Most of your posts are trivial," you say?  What kind of debate tactic do you call that?

Besides, the only people I have ever heard arguing that polygomy should not be considered a sin are wither Muslims, Mormons, or members of some other cult.  Why should you be suprised of suspicion against you for posting such a position?

I have responded to those quotes in Timothy.

"They were too busy" ???

That was your answer?

Amidst a list of requirements indicating spiritual maturity, Paul is concerned about "too busy"???? Oy!

A man unhappy with his wife can live on the roof or sleep in the desert, or marry another(Duet 21:10) but he cannot divorce her, short of her adultery.

So, can a woman who is unhappy with her husband marry another as well (and have more than one living husband)?

BTW, you need to recheck your Scripture reference.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said Nebula!!

[Lionroot]

Hey Shiloh,

Oh, how I wish I had more time. I found this sentence, to be the most interesting in your posting.

This has nothing to do with adultery.   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This statement suggest that you have an understanding of the word "adultery" in its original context. Perhaps you care to explain how a man can marry a second wife and not commit adultery in the proccess.

I should be around more next weekend.

God Bless,

Robert

[Guest yod]

Adultery is sex for the fun of it....

Marriage is a committment.

Marriages of the Middle East 3,000-5,000 years ago can not be compared to today. The lifespan of a man was short because of many factors (mostly war) so he would have many wives for the sake of the WOMAN.

Otherwise, most women would never had been able to bear children because of the shortage of men.

[Guest shiloh357]

Hey Shiloh,

Oh, how I wish I had more time. I found this sentence, to be the most interesting in your posting.

This has nothing to do with adultery.

[Lionroot]

Greetings Luke,

Thanks for your reply. BTW feel free to call me Robert.

Shall we say culturally men are allowed to violate God's law with impunity? The Law is written on each Believers heart. It does not change. God does not change. men's hearts are hard. God is Graceful though.

I absolutely agree with what you wrote here, probably more than you can know. Of course we know that God told the Israelites not to follow the ways of the people they left, or the people they would find in the land he was taking them to. During their time in the wilderness they were severely punished for violating God's law. So what was the culture of the Israelites that left wilderness?

In times past women were treated as cattle, as property, and posession. Does that make it right? Slaves were also permissable. Does the hardness of men's hearts make it right?

One does not have to go into the past to find men that still treat thier women this way. However this is not the way men of God treat their women. While men are still given headship over their wives, this is a stewardship of loving service. Not an excuse for abusive behaviors.

In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church- for we are members of his body. "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh."

Divorce is common in our day. Even in the Church as you have stated. It is a matter of culture. Which is greater culture or the Word of God? Or is it simply a matter of the sinful heart of man?

Certainly the Word of God is and should be infinitely more important to the believer. I think it is curious that while many contemporary believers have criticized the polygamy practiced by the Patriarchs and other men of God. There has been no condemnation of the contemporary practice of serial monogamy. I find that to be a strange dichotomy.

God Bless,

Robert

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE

Divorce is common in our day. Even in the Church as you have stated. It is a matter of culture. Which is greater culture or the Word of God? Or is it simply a matter of the sinful heart of man?

Certainly the Word of God is and should be infinitely more important to the believer. I think it is curious that while many contemporary believers have criticized the polygamy practiced by the Patriarchs and other men of God. There has been no condemnation of the contemporary practice of serial monogamy.

Not so. No one holds divorce up as the ideal. I don't know what planet YOU'RE from, but I have heard plenty of sermons that taught against divorce as a convenient escape route. Divorce is justified when there has been infedelity, but I also do not think God expects women and their children should remain in abusive relationships, either. A man who is abusive does not deserve to be married.

Divorce has be dealt with on a case by case basis. You cannot simply make a blanket condemnation of divorce, without looking at the reasons why each divorce took place. Sometimes it is necessary.

You keep talking about the "polygamy practiced by the Patriarchs and other men of God" as if somehow because they did it, it should be seen as valid or acceptable. You don't want to look at the fact that in each case, they were at a low point in their walk with God when they were practicing such a lifestyle, that God never praised or encouraged polygamy, and that nothing good ever came out of it. Why do you seek to justify polygamy? Why do you seek to twist and contort the Word of God to make polygamy look acceptable?

[mikhailjb7]

Because adultery is an extramarital affair with a woman you are NOT married to... DUH!!

Adultery amounts to conjugal infedility. If a married man or married woman as marital relations with someone they are not married to it is considered adultery. Why should I have to tell you this? This is pretty basic.

Idolatry, apostacy and coveteousness is considered adultery in a spiritual context.

Jesus further extended the definition of adultery as lusting after a member of the opposite sex. Jesus said that lust amounts to us committing adultery in our hearts. His point is that not only should we not commit adultery, there should be nothing in our hearts and minds that would prompt such an action in the first place.

I would venture that in a culture that allowed polygamy, marrying more than one woman would not be considered "adultery." However, that does not change the fact that polygamy is unhealthy and does not serve the best interests of the husband, the wives or the children. God has established from the very beginnning what a family structure, according to His Will, looks like.

Hi Shiloh,

a Few comments as to scriptural definitions of the following

1. Adultery For a Man: Is having sex with a married or betrothed woman.

2. Adultery for a woman: Is having sex with a man who is not your husband or a man who is not the one you are betrothed too.

3. Sex by a Man with an unmarried or unbetrothed woman is fornication, God's solution to this is that he marry the woman, so long as her father is ok with it.

4. To be accurate Jesus extended the adultery with respect to lusting after another man's woman (wife).

If you are going to argue a case on a scriptural basis then we need to stick to biblical definitions as well. Applying popular common definitions and then arguing from a scriptural basis is just not consistent.

Regards,

Mikhail

[Guest shiloh357]

Because adultery is an extramarital affair with a woman you are NOT married to... DUH!!

Adultery amounts to conjugal infedility. If a married man or married woman as marital relations with someone they are not married to it is considered adultery. Why should I have to tell you this? This is pretty basic.

Idolatry, apostacy and coveteousness is considered adultery in a spiritual context.

Jesus further extended the definition of adultery as lusting after a member of the opposite sex. Jesus said that lust amounts to us committing adultery in our hearts. His point is that not only should we not commit adultery, there should be nothing in our hearts and minds that would prompt such an action in the first place.

I would venture that in a culture that allowed polygamy, marrying more than one woman would not be considered "adultery." However, that does not change the fact that polygamy is unhealthy and does not serve the best interests of the husband, the wives or the children. God has established from the very beginnning what a family structure, according to His Will, looks like.

Hi Shiloh,

a Few comments as to scriptural definitions of the following

1. Adultery For a Man: Is having sex with a married or betrothed woman.

2. Adultery for a woman: Is having sex with a man who is not your husband or a man who is not the one you are betrothed too.

3. Sex by a Man with an unmarried or unbetrothed woman is fornication, God's solution to this is that he marry the woman, so long as her father is ok with it.

4. To be accurate Jesus extended the adultery with respect to lusting after another man's woman (wife).

If you are going to argue a case on a scriptural basis then we need to stick to biblical definitions as well. Applying popular common definitions and then arguing from a scriptural basis is just not consistent.

Regards,

Mikhail

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, and nothing you presented is crosswise with what I presented Perhaps you need to go back re-read what I said. You basically reguritated MY definition (which is based upon how the Bible defines adultery), in different words and then claim I am not using a biblical definition!!!!!

[Lionroot]

Shiloh,

Mikhail has given you a definition based on the word 'naaph", the Hebrew word translated "adultery" in the OT. Which was what I had originally assumed that you knew. It is the reason you will always find a married woman in biblical adultery. The mans marital status is immaterial.

naaph - woman that breaketh wedlock

God Bless,

Robert

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh,

Mikhail has given you a definition based on the word 'naaph", the Hebrew word translated "adultery" in the OT. Which was what I had originally assumed that you knew. It is the reason you will always find a married woman in biblical adultery. The mans marital status is immaterial.