Why I am a Trinitarian

[Lonewolf]

"Why I am a Trinitarian"

Hello everyone! I am an evangelical Christian, and believe that the scriptures convey a logical, comprehensible doctrine of the "trinity". There are many verses that can be used to establish a trinitarian argument. I would like to present what I believe to be a reasonable position on the "trinity" and would like to engage each one of you in this discussion. Often however, as any controverisal dialog ensues, individuals sometimes use name calling or even run away from the discussion when they become upset at something that is asked or said. I do not believe it is best to partake in such a discussion if this occurs. I think that this board can be used to the advantage of us all in challenging our beliefs and thoughts on scripture. I look forward to engaging each of those interested.

in Yeshua,

Colby Geiman

Raleigh, NC

[Guest kinnear]

There are many verses that can be used to establish a trinitarian argument.

Hi Lonewolf,

I think the more accurate statement would be, "There are many verses which are used to support a trinitarian argument once the trinity is first assumed to be the reality."

For instance, people often use Genesis 1:26 "Then God said, 'Let us make man in our image...'" People note that God uses plural pronouns and assume that a trinity is being talked about. But the verse conveys no notion of "threeness". It merely implies a plurality with no indication of what number the plurality consists. It could be just a duality ie God the Father and the Word.

So if you want to use scripture to engage in conversation about the trinity let us at the outset agree not to use scriptures which merely indicate an un-numbered plurality. Let us not impose "threeness" when it is literally not present.

I have

[martyr]

Well, I believe in the Trinity.  That verse in Genesis you cited doesn't disprove the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.  There is only one God, not three big Gods.  Our human minds cannot possibly comprehend the wholeness of the Trinity.  Like many beliefs in Christianity, we must accept the Word of God by faith and realize that even though God is the Father, Son, and Spirit wholly, He is also wholly one God.

[Lonewolf]

Kinnear, Nice to meet you. Thank you for your response. I definitely agree with you that presuppositions can be dangerous. So...

1. Could we agree that in Gen 1:26 "Let US make man in our image"... the "US" conveys a plurality of something?

2. Could we agree that in Gen 1:26 "Let us make make man in our IMAGE"... the "IMAGE" is singular so these plural somethings share the same image?

3. If this image is being shared by someone who is creating and making the universe then who could it be? Could it be the angels? Do the angels share the image of God or can they do what God does? Just to name a few verses...

Psalm 89:6 says "...Who is like the YAHWEH among the heavenly beings?"(NIV)

1 Kings 8:23 says "O YAHWEH... there is no God like like You in heaven above..."(NASB)

Isaiah 46:5 says "To whom would you liken Me and make Me equal and compare Me, that we would be alike?"(NASB)

Isaiah 46:9 says "...For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me"(NSAB)

Malachi 2:10 says "...Has not one God created us?..."(NASB)

Isaiah 44:24 says "Thus says YAHWEH, your redeemer, he who formed you in the womb: I, YAHWEH, have made all things, I alone spread out the heavens. When I hammered the earth into shape, who was with me?"(NJB)

From just a few scriptures, it appears that no one else is like God even among the angels, so what other thing ascribed with creating us is being described here in Genesis 1:26?

...

-colby

[For Him Alone]

OK, weird.  

What was that all about?

[martyr]

I'll be praying for you brother. CARM isn't too picky about what they allow on their boards.

[Lonewolf]

To:

For Him Alone

martyr

I was actually hoping for a dialog on this topic.. I didnt seem to have any audience. Dont worry , im not dismissing the group I'll return with my full presentation in about a week...  Thank you for your prayers!

-colby

[Guest wwatch]

Partially, this post is to jump start this discussion, but I am using questions that puzzle me and arise out of the previous posts.  It seems like something is missing....is this true?

Here are my questions.

1.) to FOR HIM ALONE

OK, weird.  

What was that all about?

  Is this question in reference to what was posted prior to your question or to something that is deleted or what?  I thought Lonewolf's post was a very articulate presentation in response to Kinnear's post and a great foundational beginning for the discussion.  So, if you were referring to something weird within that post, could you point it out for someone who is trying to follow the discussion?   thank you

2.)and to MARTYR

I'll be praying for you brother. CARM isn't too picky about what they allow on their boards.

Similar question.  This must refer to something either deleted or discussed in private.  Is that correct?  It's, of course, OK!  Just wondering what I'm missing.

3.)And, Kinnear said that he was going out of the country for 10 days, so I guess that is the reason for no response yet.  But, I am sitting on the edge of my chair as Lonewolf's presentation seems to do a good job of limiting the possibilities of what "image" might refer to and, thereby, define the directions where "plurality" might find its meaning.  

Like the direction and the progression.  Look forward to the followups by Kinnear and Lonewolf.

                         wwatch

[Guest]

Kinnear, Nice to meet you. Thank you for your response. I definitely agree with you that presuppositions can be dangerous. So...

1. Could we agree that in Gen 1:26 "Let US make man in our image"... the "US" conveys a plurality of something?

2. Could we agree that in Gen 1:26 "Let us make make man in our IMAGE"... the "IMAGE" is singular so these plural somethings share the same image?

3. If this image is being shared by someone who is creating and making the universe then who could it be? Could it be the angels? Do the angels share the image of God or can they do what God does? Just to name a few verses...

Psalm 89:6 says "...Who is like the YAHWEH among the heavenly beings?"(NIV)

1 Kings 8:23 says "O YAHWEH... there is no God like like You in heaven above..."(NASB)

Isaiah 46:5 says "To whom would you liken Me and make Me equal and compare Me, that we would be alike?"(NASB)

Isaiah 46:9 says "...For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me"(NSAB)

Malachi 2:10 says "...Has not one God created us?..."(NASB)

Isaiah 44:24 says "Thus says YAHWEH, your redeemer, he who formed you in the womb: I, YAHWEH, have made all things, I alone spread out the heavens. When I hammered the earth into shape, who was with me?"(NJB)

From just a few scriptures, it appears that no one else is like God even among the angels, so what other thing ascribed with creating us is being described here in Genesis 1:26?

...

-colby

I like your reasoning,  and I guess I would be called "Oneness" by some.

I believe the angels do have the image/appearance of God . . . as does man.

[Timothy]

Don't confuse image with equality.

No, not angels, but -

Philippians 2:5-8 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.