JustinM Posted December 10, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 144 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,512 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 625 Days Won: 10 Joined: 04/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1979 Share Posted December 10, 2012 There is a cultural value to this literature, a unifying culture is something we are lacking in the country. We can't work together towards a common goal if we have nothing in common with our countrymen. But, don't worry, once communism takes place it will determine our culture for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_S Posted December 10, 2012 Group: Servant Followers: 25 Topic Count: 275 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 5,208 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 1,893 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/02/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted December 10, 2012 I understand different people have different tastes-but on the same note, reading different stuff can help you learn, especially the classics. If one doesnt like fiction thats fine, but I think its beneficial toread a few, esecially the classicsbecause it widensthe imagination so to seak. So true; literature is important for a well rounded education. I think that some of it is disgusting but the majority of classic literature expands the mind. I will grant that it's not for everyone though; my son won't read anything that's not a tech manual and he is one to fhe brightest kids I've ever seen. I take issue with the practical merits of a "well rounded education" at any rate. I'm not suggesting that interests shouldn't be pursued (mine happen to mostly be politics and history, outside of study of the Bible, of course), but i don't really see the necessity of someone who's going to be say, a mechanic, wasting their time reading classic fiction if they aren't interested in it. I don't disagree that there are certain lessons to be learned in some books (1984 being a very good example of this), but those examples are very few and far between and generally available in other areas in an applied real world sense. In the end, classical literature is not educational in so far as that a person is not absorbing accurate data, they're just absorbing, for the most part, imagined data. Reading fiction is entertaining for many, and that's fine. But, including fictional reading in an educational curriculum is no more than educating one person on the imagination and ideas of another person that a collective group of people find to be interesting or entertaining. It has no real applicable merit outside of that realm and thus has no place in a compulsory educational system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted December 10, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,800 Content Per Day: 6.17 Reputation: 11,247 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 10, 2012 They are teaching kids not to be critical thinkers but instead to be robots. They are squashing the creativity in our youth and the ability to think through things. I got a thorough grounding in ancient mythologies and classial literature/ stories like beowulf and ancient roman texts. My hubby did not. There are many ways in which these things are referenced in our society. I catch the nuances and links. My hubby does not. He doesnt grasp certain things as a result of it. Something is lost without a well grounded education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_S Posted December 10, 2012 Group: Servant Followers: 25 Topic Count: 275 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 5,208 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 1,893 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/02/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted December 10, 2012 They are teaching kids not to be critical thinkers but instead to be robots. They are squashing the creativity in our youth and the ability to think through things. I got a thorough grounding in ancient mythologies and classial literature/ stories like beowulf and ancient roman texts. My hubby did not. There are many ways in which these things are referenced in our society. I catch the nuances and links. My hubby does not. He doesnt grasp certain things as a result of it. Something is lost without a well grounded education. The importance of that is debatable. I don't believe a teaching of literature goes towards critical thinking skills anyway. I believe that critical thinking is far better developed through debate of things like philosophy, politics, and science in the classroom using the socratic method. Throwing either Commentarii de Bello Gallico from Caesar or Tom Sawyer at a group of students and saying "read this and think about it" is going to do absolutely nothing. The bare fact of the matter is that in the public school system you're lucky to get that much out of the average teacher. The problem with the lack of critical thinking being imparted to our students isn't the fact that they're cutting things like literature or art from curricula, it's that they're being taught things by a government bureaucracy and by people within that bureaucracy who are protected by what are virtually the most powerful unions left in the nation. There's no accountability in the public educational system on the side of the teachers. A skilled teacher can develop critical thinking skills 100 times better with a DVD player manual than a poor teacher can with a library that contains every single book ever written. We also have to be quite frank here and recognize that people are just different. That having been said, with the state of the public education system as it stands, it's highly unlikely that cutting or adding any sort of classic fiction reading curriculum is going make a difference at all in the quality of the education or the intellect of the students pouring out of it. For me, what is broken about our education system is the complete removal of God from it, the fact that the entry level pay isn't enough to attract the brighter, more intelligent college graduates, and the fact that it's a gigantic unwieldy bureaucracy that doesn't care about anything but the amount of funding it gets. Throwing more money at it is not the answer, either, because we really don't have more money to throw at it. Honestly, I don't think there is an answer. If I am ever blessed with children, they most certainly will not be attending a public school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinky Posted December 10, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,602 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 291 Days Won: 8 Joined: 10/24/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/01/1986 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I'd much rather read The Grapes of Wrath or Lord of the Flies. I loved reading many of the classics when I was in school. The Scarlet Letter, The Call of the Wild, Native Son, Wuthering Heights, Gone with the Wind, Little Women, A Christmas Carol, Black Beauty, and The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes were some of my favorites. I have to disagree on some of that. Lord of the Flies was disgusting. Some things I had to read in there I wish would exit my brain. I used that one simply as an example of what I'd rather read than " Recommended Levels of Insulation by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency" Frankly. I'd rather read the side of a cereal box than that thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted December 10, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.06 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 10, 2012 There is a cultural value to this literature, a unifying culture is something we are lacking in the country. We can't work together towards a common goal if we have nothing in common with our countrymen. But, don't worry, once communism takes place it will determine our culture for us. You're not being optomistic, Justin. Just proclaiming doom and gloom all the time doesn't help anyone or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted December 10, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.06 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 10, 2012 I understand different people have different tastes-but on the same note, reading different stuff can help you learn, especially the classics. If one doesnt like fiction thats fine, but I think its beneficial toread a few, esecially the classicsbecause it widensthe imagination so to seak. So true; literature is important for a well rounded education. I think that some of it is disgusting but the majority of classic literature expands the mind. I will grant that it's not for everyone though; my son won't read anything that's not a tech manual and he is one to fhe brightest kids I've ever seen. I take issue with the practical merits of a "well rounded education" at any rate. I'm not suggesting that interests shouldn't be pursued (mine happen to mostly be politics and history, outside of study of the Bible, of course), but i don't really see the necessity of someone who's going to be say, a mechanic, wasting their time reading classic fiction if they aren't interested in it. I don't disagree that there are certain lessons to be learned in some books (1984 being a very good example of this), but those examples are very few and far between and generally available in other areas in an applied real world sense. In the end, classical literature is not educational in so far as that a person is not absorbing accurate data, they're just absorbing, for the most part, imagined data. Reading fiction is entertaining for many, and that's fine. But, including fictional reading in an educational curriculum is no more than educating one person on the imagination and ideas of another person that a collective group of people find to be interesting or entertaining. It has no real applicable merit outside of that realm and thus has no place in a compulsory educational system. No offense but, if everyone thought like you, half the world's literature would never have been written. Sometimes it's not about 'learning lessons' but about letting the imagination soar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_S Posted December 10, 2012 Group: Servant Followers: 25 Topic Count: 275 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 5,208 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 1,893 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/02/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted December 10, 2012 I understand different people have different tastes-but on the same note, reading different stuff can help you learn, especially the classics. If one doesnt like fiction thats fine, but I think its beneficial toread a few, esecially the classicsbecause it widensthe imagination so to seak. So true; literature is important for a well rounded education. I think that some of it is disgusting but the majority of classic literature expands the mind. I will grant that it's not for everyone though; my son won't read anything that's not a tech manual and he is one to fhe brightest kids I've ever seen. I take issue with the practical merits of a "well rounded education" at any rate. I'm not suggesting that interests shouldn't be pursued (mine happen to mostly be politics and history, outside of study of the Bible, of course), but i don't really see the necessity of someone who's going to be say, a mechanic, wasting their time reading classic fiction if they aren't interested in it. I don't disagree that there are certain lessons to be learned in some books (1984 being a very good example of this), but those examples are very few and far between and generally available in other areas in an applied real world sense. In the end, classical literature is not educational in so far as that a person is not absorbing accurate data, they're just absorbing, for the most part, imagined data. Reading fiction is entertaining for many, and that's fine. But, including fictional reading in an educational curriculum is no more than educating one person on the imagination and ideas of another person that a collective group of people find to be interesting or entertaining. It has no real applicable merit outside of that realm and thus has no place in a compulsory educational system. No offense but, if everyone thought like you, half the world's literature would never have been written. Sometimes it's not about 'learning lessons' but about letting the imagination soar. Honestly, I don't view fictional literature as an integral necessity for the betterment of civilization, therefore I wouldn't care if half of it weren't written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinM Posted December 10, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 144 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,512 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 625 Days Won: 10 Joined: 04/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1979 Share Posted December 10, 2012 There is a cultural value to this literature, a unifying culture is something we are lacking in the country. We can't work together towards a common goal if we have nothing in common with our countrymen. But, don't worry, once communism takes place it will determine our culture for us. You're not being optomistic, Justin. Just proclaiming doom and gloom all the time doesn't help anyone or anything. It's not pessimism, it's realism, communism has taken over the education system from grade school to graduate school. That's life and now they are removing books, that define our culture, for something meaningless. I always thought more literature, not less, was a sign of an enlightened society. But, at least parents can still decide what books their children should read when they aren't in school. There's my dose of optimism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joi Posted December 11, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 506 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 1,922 Content Per Day: 0.40 Reputation: 173 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/12/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted December 11, 2012 Books are being replaced by e-readers, and in some schools even history books are not being made available to students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts