There is no other choice?

[borntorebel]

DE said,

Well I am kind of stupid, please explain your remarks.

I guess you're referring to my staement "So, do you believe God's word, or man's traditions?" What I mean by that statement is that not all christian doctrines are of God, many are man's teachings, just like Jesus told the religious leaders of his day. Freewill, trinity and other doctrines are manmade creations based on the wisdom of men, which is foolishness to God. God's wisdom is far, far above our wisdom. Does that answer your question?

May God's power and peace be with you,

Ron

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Borntorebel,

I guess you're referring to my staement "So, do you believe God's word, or man's traditions?" What I mean by that statement is that not all christian doctrines are of God, many are man's teachings, just like Jesus told the religious leaders of his day. Freewill, trinity and other doctrines are manmade creations based on the wisdom of men, which is foolishness to God. God's wisdom is far, far above our wisdom. Does that answer your question?

Have you ever heard the acroynm SWAK? It is a construction of the first letters of: Sealed With A Kiss. How about OTOH? Or rather "On The Other Hand". Or how about CUL? Or "See you later". They are all just a short cut way to refer to something greater than just the letters shown. Free Will is a short cut way of saying "the ability to choose". The Trinity is a way of saying "The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost. It refers to the "tripartite" character of God, but did you also know that YOU are a "tripartite" character consisting of Spirit, Soul and Body? These ARE NOT "doctrines of men", but facilities to use to convey a greater message.

I get the impression so far that you wish only to cause desention, is that true? If it is not, then what is your point?

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest Chixsngr]

DE said,

What I mean by that statement is that not all christian doctrines are of God, many are man's teachings, just like Jesus told the religious leaders of his day.

This is where I get lost in your explaination. How can we know which teachings are mans and which are Gods? And much of what we believe now has been handed down through the ages, even through the Catholic Church, like the concept of the trinity So, how do we know?

How do we even know, then, that the teaching we recieve today from our ministers is valid? So many people of God say things today can't believe are God's words!

I'm really confused by your answer!

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Chixsngr,

DE said,

What I mean by that statement is that not all christian doctrines are of God, many are man's teachings, just like Jesus told the religious leaders of his day.

First of all I didn't say the above.

This is where I get lost in your explaination. How can we know which teachings are mans and which are Gods? And much of what we believe now has been handed down through the ages, even through the Catholic Church, like the concept of the trinity So, how do we know?

How do we even know, then, that the teaching we recieve today from our ministers is valid? So many people of God say things today can't believe are God's words!

Unless you are a child and can't read, or mentally infirm and can't understand, then, once you become "born again", the Holy Spirit is sent to reside IN YOU. It is He that teaches us, instructs us, recalls to our minds the things Jesus has taught us in the Word, and also shows us things to come.

Now if you are only listening to man, it is no wonder you are confused. In today's world there are many deceivers or those who through their own ignorance lead others astray. The only way to REALLY LEARN and UNDERSTAND the scriptures is to LISTEN TO GOD. Get into His Word and pray for the Holy Spirit to give you understanding, and then when He does, build your life around it. It is written: "Thy Word have I hid in my HEART that I might not sin against you." Do this and you shall live. QUIT LISTENING TO MAN.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest Chixsngr]

Now if you are only listening to man, it is no wonder you are confused. In today's world there are many deceivers or those who through their own ignorance lead others astray. The only way to REALLY LEARN and UNDERSTAND the scriptures is to LISTEN TO GOD. Get into His Word and pray for the Holy Spirit to give you understanding, and then when He does, build your life around it. It is written: "Thy Word have I hid in my HEART that I might not sin against you." Do this and you shall live. QUIT LISTENING TO MAN.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[followerofjesus]

I believe we are given the gift of discernment here, meaning we are able to establish the difference between good & evil.

[borntorebel]

Have you ever heard the acroynm SWAK? It is a construction of the first letters of: Sealed With A Kiss. How about OTOH? Or rather "On The Other Hand". Or how about CUL? Or "See you later". They are all just a short cut way to refer to something greater than just the letters shown. Free Will is a short cut way of saying "the ability to choose". The Trinity is a way of saying "The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost. It refers to the "tripartite" character of God, but did you also know that YOU are a "tripartite" character consisting of Spirit, Soul and Body? These ARE NOT "doctrines of men", but facilities to use to convey a greater message.

I get the impression so far that you wish only to cause desention, is that true? If it is not, then what is your point?

I'll say this one more time and then I'm done repeating myself. Freewill means that God doesn't intervene in the matters of the world (I'm keeping it as short as possible to fit into your understanding of things). It doesn't mean to choose. No choice any human has ever made or ever will make isn't without a cause. Freewill says we can choose without a cause, which goes against the proven law of the universe of "cause and effect". I don't believe in 'shortcuts' to explain God's word. That's one reason we have so many problems in the church today. You say it as a shortcut, then the next generation sees it as the true meaning instead of just a shortcut, and so on and so forth. I say what I mean and mean what I say. We aren't to be so loose with God's word as to preach with "shortcuts". Paul has several teachings on how to teach God's word. As far as the "trinity", you can view my discussion in the apologetics section of this MB. No DE, I don't wish to cause dissension, but if what I share from God's word causes dissension, so be it. Jesus and the early apostles didn't exactly preach ideas about God and His word that the religious leaders of their day liked either (not comparing you to the religious leaders of their day, that's just what we know about. no offense meant)

Chixsngr, it is difficult to search through the teachings of man to discover God's truth. Ask God to guide you and teach you. That's what His holy spirit is for. One good thing to do is get a Strong's concordance so you can see the meaning of the Greek words that are translated into English. Also, if you hear a preacher saying something that doesn't line up with God's word, i.e. Falwell's statement that you quoted, don't listen to them. There are many men and women in the world today who aren't teaching all of God's truth or are adding their own manmade ideas to God's word. Although I am nothing more than a sinner saved by God's grace, I would be glad to offer any assistance I can to answer any questions you may have.

May God's power and peace be with you,

Ron

Edited November 4, 2004 by borntorebel

[AnotherTraveler]

I have heard over the years many carefully worded questions that seam to have only one answer that leads to another carefully worded question and so on....

Adam and Eve could have chosen to trust and obey, they didn't, but they could have.

In fact mankind could have obeyed for thousands of years in the Garden of Eden, but always the choice to disobey would be presented, the devil would keep trying, and there certainly was a plan of salvation prepared before the foundation of the world, so God was planning on redeeming us, whenever the fall would cause sin and death.

(1 Pet 1:18 KJV) Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

(1 Pet 1:19 KJV) But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

(1 Pet 1:20 KJV) Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

(Eph 1:3 KJV) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

(Eph 1:4 KJV) According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

(Eph 1:5 KJV) Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Do we have a choice, and can we impact the time, or change the event? Consider...

(Mat 24:20 KJV) But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

If we pray we can change the season that this occurs in? Yes, according to the Lord

(Jonah 3:10 KJV) And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

When they repented, God did not destroy them.

[OneAccord]

There must be some standard for truth that we can count on, not our own understanding.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Borntorebel,

Freewill means that God doesn't intervene in the matters of the world

This is perhaps the most inane statement you have made so far. Perhaps you have said it before, but I just didn't catch it. The Word of God is replete with instances of God intervening in the matters of this world. All you have to do is look at John 3:16.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie