Where is freewill in the bible?

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings gypc,

Notice what Paul says here....18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth

Please read and consider Romans 1. It is BECAUSE men have stealed their heart to God that He turns them over to a reprobate mind. IOW, He hardened their hearts by allowing them to go to the depths of their depravity.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

P.S. We must never forget the God PREDESTINATED ACCORDING TO HIS FOREKNOWLEDGE. That is what you and I will do today or tomorrow is already written down in the books of Heaven because God ALREADY KNEW? God is OMNISCIENT!

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[gypc]

Hey Dad..........good wisdom bro

[borntorebel]

To all who responded,

Thank you for your many responses. Now that several have put in your ideas about freewill, I have more questions. What is the definition of freewill? Since there isn't ONE instance of the word 'freewill' in the bible, it cannot be defined from scripture, so there must be a definition in order to know what 'freewill' means. Also, concerning proof from scripture, I'm not asking where our ability to choose is in the bible, I'm asking where 'freewill' is in the bible.

DE said;

It is BECAUSE men have stealed their heart to God that He turns them over to a reprobate mind...We must never forget the God PREDESTINATED ACCORDING TO HIS FOREKNOWLEDGE.

You're comparing apples and oranges in using Rom. 1. That passage doesn't correspond with Rom. 9. In ch. 1, God is telling us that because of the wrong choices made by mankind to indulge their sinful nature, He gave them over to a reprobate mind (actions determine consequences). In ch. 9, God tells us He has mercy on whom He has mercy and hardens whom He hardens. He clearly states this has nothing to do with what the individual does (their actions). What must be done here is to look at the two passages, which seem to contradict each other, and determine what is God's ultimate truth. Concerning the 'predestinated according to foreknowledge', you're getting it backward.

"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." Rom. 8:29-30 KJV.

God doesn't say here that because he foreknew he predestinated. He says that those whom he foreknew, he also did predestinate.

[Repent1]

Greetings to my fellow sojourners,

I pray you the peace, joy and the continued Love of the God of our Salvation

This is my testimony to the issue of freewill

The freewill which we are given by God is limited to two choices, by our choice we will decide to either serve God or we will decide to serve Satan. At this point we surrender our will unto the will of the one we

[Repent1]

Greetings borntoreebel,

I pray you the peace, Joy and love of the shepherd

I don't think that freewill means, "A will independent of God", because scripture teaches that there is nothing that is Independent of God's rule. It also teaches, that everyone will give an account of himself to God:

{Romans 14:11-13 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Let us not therefore judge (To form an opinion or evaluation) one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock (a cause to sin) or an occasion to fall (away from God) in his brother's way.}

[Ask yourself this question]

What is it that we will give an account of?

[My testimony]

One of the examples of these things, is spoken of in the 13th verse, God gave us the responsibility to make Godly decisions, so that we will not be guilty of causing another to err in the way, because of something that we did or said.

God also said in {Matthews 12:35-37: A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the Day of Judgment.

For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.}

borntorebel,

These things are done by your freedom of choice (freewill) you will make choices with respect, to your treatment of others, and as to whom you will serve. God does not force us to love and serve him, he calls, summons (puts forth a request to) us (to seek the kingdom),

However because God has shead his love abroad in our hearts, now we have a nature that desires God. Something that man had to struggle with, before the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

But the choice is still left up to us; God doesn't want you if you don't want him. We are required to receive (accept) Christ, by the confession of our mouth, and the believing (accepting as true) in our heart. This is a conscious choice on every person

[Repent1]

Cont....

As demonstrated in the parable of the wedding:

[Matthew 22:1-14]

And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said, The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

[My testimony]

This parable references the rejecting of Christ by the Jews.

Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew (killed) them.

But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth (angry): and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden (summoned) were not worthy.

[My testimony]

Because of Israel

[borntorebel]

You must choose to repent, and the changing of your life is also something you choose to do. The Holy Ghost (The spirit of truth) is your guide, not your master, he is not authorized to make you do anything against your will, but he will guide you into the will of God, if you heed his small quiet voice.

Actually Repent1, we as humans aren't able to choose to repent without the spirit of God inside us.

""For the creature (that's us) was made subject to vanity, NOT WILLINGLY [not by our 'free will'], but by reason of HIM who hath subjected the same in hope" Rom. 8:20;

""The preparations of the heart in man and the answer of the tongue is FROM THE LORD" Pro. 16:1;

""The kings [Pharaoh, King Saul and King Ahab and our] heart is in the hand of the Lord ... He turneth it whithersoever He will" Pro. 21:1;

""Man's goings [ways] are of the Lord, how can a man then understand his own way?" Pro. 20:24;

""O Lord, I know that the way [goings] of man is not in himself: IT IS NOT IN MAN THAT WALKETH TO DIRECT HIS STEPS" Jer. 10:23;

""Not one is just-not even one." Rom. 3:10;

"Not one is understanding." (Ver. 11);

"Not one is seeking out God." (Ver. 11);

"All avoid Him: at the same time they were useless." (Ver. 12);

"Not one is doing kindness: there is not even one!" (Ver. 12);

" ... For all sinned and are wanting of the glory of God." Rom. 3:23;

"No one is good except One, God." Mk 10:19;

"All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all." Isa. 53:6;

"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousness [including our 'good' consciences] are as filthy rags ... " Isa. 64:6.

We are evil through and through. We don't even have the desire to choose or follow God, at least that's what God tells us. If we could come to God and repent of our ways, there wouldn't have been a need for Jesus. Only if God decides to call us and choose us are we even able to follow Jesus.

A reference was made to the verse, which says: No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw (attract) him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Actually Repent, the Greek word used in this verse is helkuo - Strong's #1670 - to drag. It doesn't in anyway whatsoever mean to attract, refer. Jn. 12:32, 21:6; James 2:6.

Finally,

Some have spoken of Job, stating that God brought evil upon Job; I'm not able to come into agreement with that. God did not bring evil upon Job, he simply allowed his servant to be tested of Satan. Job endured to the end and God rewarded his faithfullness (Trust in God).

Let's see what God says instead of deciding for ourselves.

"And the Lord said unto Satan, 'Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?' Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, 'Doth Job fear God for nought? Hast thou not made an hedge (suwk - to entwine,, i.e. shut in {for formation, protection or restraint} about him...thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. But put forth thine hand (this is satan telling God to do this) now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.' And the Lord said unto Satan, 'Behold, all that he hath is in thy power (God removed His protection and gave satan the right to try Job)."

Wihtout God removing His protection from around Job, satan had no power to try him with his attacks. God allowed satan to try Job. Not only was God responsible for the evil that came upon Job, God created evil (Isaiah 45:7).

[Freewill]  is simply, the God given gift to make decisions, given when he made us in his Image. That is to say we have voluntary choice. Notwithstanding God admonished us from the beginning:

borntoreebel,

when one says “Keep (obey) his commandment” that is acknowledgement of our responsibility and freedom of choice (freewill).

God does not make us obey (keep his commandments, but out of reverence for God, you with a willing mind and a willing heart, choose to serve God, unto Righteousness or you will be serving Satan unto Damnation.

Ok, here's the definition of freewill; the doctrine that the conduct of human beings expresses personal choice and is not simply determined by physical or divine forces. Websters Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary of the English Language.

Now, can any christian accept that definition? NO! It denies the ability of God to intervene in this world. Yes, we have the ability to make choices. However, as Einstein proved, the first rule of the universe is cause and effect. No human being has ever or ever will have the ability to make a voluntary choice that isn't caused by something. That is a physiological impossibility. Every choice we make is caused by something. As far as scripture is concerned, where does this fabled freewill fit into Romans 9? It can't, plain and simple. I'm not saying we're puppets. I'm not saying that our choices are predetermined. I'm not saying that we can't choose to do good or evil once the spirit of God is inside of us. I'm saying that these choices are caused.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings BornToRebel,

Every choice we make is caused by something. As far as scripture is concerned, where does this fabled freewill fit into Romans 9? It can't, plain and simple. I'm not saying we're puppets. I'm not saying that our choices are predetermined. I'm not saying that we can't choose to do good or evil once the spirit of God is inside of us. I'm saying that these choices are caused.

Well, I am very glad to hear you say this. Have you ever read Eccleasiasties? There is NOTHING New under the son. What has gone before shall be again. A baby cries because it is wet, uncomfortable or needs to be fed. Of course there is a "cause" which produces an "effect". Only God is ORIGINAL in His thinking. Man is pretty much limited to the box of this creation.

So what is your point? No FREE will? Your will is what YOU CHOOSE, and you may either choose to follow God or NOT. That is what FREE means, you are NOT a puppet by your own admission and no one is pulling your strings.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[borntorebel]

Well, I am very glad to hear you say this. Have you ever read Eccleasiasties? There is NOTHING New under the son. What has gone before shall be again. A baby cries because it is wet, uncomfortable or needs to be fed. Of course there is a "cause" which produces an "effect". Only God is ORIGINAL in His thinking. Man is pretty much limited to the box of this creation.

So what is your point? No FREE will? Your will is what YOU CHOOSE, and you may either choose to follow God or NOT. That is what FREE means, you are NOT a puppet by your own admission and no one is pulling your strings.

DE,

One question. Is it a typo where you said "nothing is new under the SON."? Yes, my point is there is no freewill. You proved my point in your own statements. God is the only original thinker, to use your terminology. You're right, we do make choices. Until God calls us though, noone can choose to follow Him. Once God has called us, we have the ability to choose to follow God or disobey Him. It seems you agree with me, but I can't quite tell from your post. I'll ask you, what is your point?

May God's power and peace be with you,

Ron

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Borntorebel,

Yes, I often make that mistake because He is where my mind is.

Free Will is NOT "free thinking". I can "think" all sorts of things, but it is my "will" that controls my actions for good or for evil.

Have you given any thought to Judas? He was called, chosen and sent with the power of the Holy Ghost to heal the sick, raise the dead and cast out demons, yet he betrayed our Lord. FREE WILL. The thief on the cross - he saw, he heard, he REPENTED and confessed the Name of Jesus AND was forgiven. FREE WILL. Annanias and Sapphira - they gave but lied about how much they gave - a devilish heart. FREE WILL. King David & Bathsheba. He saw how beautiful she was and determined to have her for himself, even at the cost of his head commander. FREE WILL. Adam decided to listen to his wife, instead of God - FREE WILL. And on and on it goes. None of these were puppets, they had the ability to choose whom they would follow.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie