Matthew 26:39

[QuaestorRexRegis]

So then, Jesus died for Himself as well?  Jesus needed a Savior like the rest of us?

O please...  :sarcasm:

[munari]

The answer to this question is found in the Gospel. Yes, Jesus did not want to die:

Matthew 26:36 Then Jesus came with them to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to his disciples, "Sit here while I go over there and pray."

37 He took along Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to feel sorrow and distress.

38 Then he said to them, "My soul is sorrowful even to death. Remain here and keep watch with me."

39 He advanced a little and fell prostrate in prayer, saying, "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; yet, not as I will, but as you will."

40 When he returned to his disciples he found them asleep. He said to Peter, "So you could not keep watch with me for one hour?

41 Watch and pray that you may not undergo the test. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak."

42 Withdrawing a second time, he prayed again, "My Father, if it is not possible that this cup pass without my drinking it, your will be done!"

This shows that Christ did not want to die. Like any other human, Christ tried to find an easier way out, and who can blame Him? But, unlike any other human, He knew what needed to be done and He subjected Himself to the will of the Father for the sake of the rest of His children. Like a good brother, He set out to find us and to slay our captor Satan and bring us back home to the Father. The vehicle of our salvation and our way back home though was not through the sword, but through His death and resurrection. He needed to restore the failings of Adam, He needed to say "Yes!" where Adam said "No".

[QuaestorRexRegis]

You mean that Jesus did not know what Paul knew in Romans 14:7 - 9?  You mean dieing was some big deal to Jesus?

Come on - you can do better than that.

[munari]

Romans 14:7 None of us lives for oneself, and no one dies for oneself.

8 For if we live, we live for the Lord, and if we die, we die for the Lord; so then, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.

9 For this is why Christ died and came to life, that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living.

Picture this...

You're at home enjoying supper with your best friends for a celebration. And they know that everything is not right with you, but they don't know exactly what. You on the other hand know better. You know that one of your friends is going to turn you in as a traitor to your people. You know that you will be accused of things you did not do. You will be ridiculed. You will then be beaten and whipped. You will be mocked and made fun of. You will be paraded before you own people have a murderer chosen over you, after you have shed the light of Truth on your people. You will be made to carry you own method of execution on your back. You will have nails driven through you hands and feet. You will have thorns shoved into you head. You will be stripped naked and displayed on a cross before an entire nation. You will have done this for the very people that are killing and mocking you, and they don't care. In fact, they laugh and hate you. But you did it for them, all for them. Or, worse yet, He didn't know this... He just knew He had to suffer for ALL of the sin that is, was, and will be...

Now, if that were me, you better believe I'd be terrified, I'd ask if there is ANY other way, lets do it that way instead. The fact that you are doing this for God will not make the suffering that much easier to take. Knowing you will rise again will not make the piercing of the nails any less sharp or the struggling for breath any easier.

Or, do you deny that Christ was fully human and that He would take this on with a smile on His face? I think you need to do better than that. He went through hell on earth for us, and minimizing His fear and trepidation minimizes the fact that He died and suffered for us!

[traveller]

Not minimizing His fear. However, I don't think His fear was of dying or suffering physical pain.

[munari]

Traveller,

Why would he not fear physical pain? He was fully human, with human fears. And, as far as death goes, I can see Him not fearing death, because I'm not afraid to die... but I'm scared to death at the thought of how I might die. The way Christ died is among the top worst ways to die. That is something to be feared, and I know I'd be scared to death to go through all of that...

[Guest Warrior FC]

Traveller,

Why would he not fear physical pain? He was fully human, with human fears. And, as far as death goes, I can see Him not fearing death, because I'm not afraid to die... but I'm scared to death at the thought of how I might die. The way Christ died is among the top worst ways to die. That is something to be feared, and I know I'd be scared to death to go through all of that...

Amen Munari!

He also wept.... You mean Jesus had the same emotions that we do?

:thumb: You better believe He did!

[traveller]

Warrior, why do you think that Jesus wept?

[Guest tjw]

Warrior, why do you think that Jesus wept?

John 11:35

Jesus wept

[QuaestorRexRegis]

And Jesus was to have merely bypassed his conversation with Moses and Elijah on the mount of transfiguration?  They discussed what He was to do in Jerusalem.  That doesn't just happen everday to those of us who are all human.

What a transformation the Holy Spirit had on all those Christians who suffered at the hands of Nero - they did not back down, but sang gently as they were hung on crosses, burned, torn in two by horses to mention only a few things.