Did Jesus already return?

iamlamad · August 15, 2013

Shalom, 1peterlight.

Matthew 10:23
When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
27 "For the Son of Man is going to come with His angels in the glory of His Father, and then He will reward each according to what he has done. 28 I assure you: There are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."
I can't get myself past these verses. I've tried convincing myself it could mean the transfiguration, but frankly, I feel that is a go to when hitting a brick wall. Is there any possibility we are in the 1000 years? I know there has been no time of peace. But these verses sound so immediate.

Gary is right about Matthew 16:27-28 referring to Matthew 17:1-13. Remember, chapter divisions in the Bible are NOT inspired, and they're fairly arbitrary, although some translators tried to keep verse and chapter divisions fairly, logically organized.

Consider also the other Synoptic Gospels, as well. They all three have this account:

Mark 9:1-13

1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.

3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.

4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

6 For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.

7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

8 And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.

9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.

10 And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.

11 And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come?

12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.

13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.

KJV

Luke 9:27-36

27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.

29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.

30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:

31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.

33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.

34 While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.

35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

36 And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.

KJV

This vision is indeed a FORETASTE of the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom, but it was just a vision, as Gary noted, not the actual event which is still in the future.

Now, regarding Matthew 10:23, this is hard for most Christians to understand UNTIL, that is, the light dawns upon them! Remember, Yeshua` was BORN KING OF THE JEWS. His lineage in Matthew 1 is designed specifically to confirm His claim and legitimacy to the throne of David, and many things happened during His "ministry" (actually, during His OFFER OF THE KINGDOM TO Y'HUDAH) that cannot be understood apart from this perspective. His forerunner and herald, Yochanan the Immerser (John the Baptist), proclaims Him as the Messiah of God, and even the very miracles He performed in God's power were to authenticate His claims and His message, the gospel of the Kingdom. That's a focus on the "KINGDOM," not on the word "gospel." All "gospel" means is "good news." It is the "good news about the Kingdom!" And, what is that "good news?"

Isaiah 52:7

7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!

KJV

Thus, this is the true "gospel" that both Yeshua` and His herald proclaimed!

Based on this information, His focus was to provide a legitimate offer of the Kingdom to Y'hudah (Judah) and to Isra'el. Now, see how this played out when Yeshua` sent out His disciples in Matthew 10:

Matthew 10:1-23

1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;

4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7 And as ye go, preach (herald), saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand (within your grasp).

8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,

10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, inquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.

12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.

13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

KJV

Thus, this is NOT even close to being similar to the Great Commission. Their mission here, DURING OUR LORD'S OFFER OF THE KINGDOM, was ONLY to the "lost sheep of the house of Isra'el."

What Yeshua` was saying was that He would be following them as they went from town to town, heralding the coming of the King, and that they wouldn't have covered all the towns of Isra'el before the Son of Man caught up to them! This passage was ONLY for that time period in His "ministry" and is NOT for the time after His death and resurrection!

Could it be that these verses have a second meaning, or that Jesus jumped 2000 years in the middle of a verse, and began speaking of the 144,000 witnessing in Israel during the first half of the 70th week?

Lamad

Retrobyter · August 16, 2013

Shalom, Lamad.

Shalom, 1peterlight.

Matthew 10:23
When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

27 "For the Son of Man is going to come with His angels in the glory of His Father, and then He will reward each according to what he has done. 28 I assure you: There are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

I can't get myself past these verses. I've tried convincing myself it could mean the transfiguration, but frankly, I feel that is a go to when hitting a brick wall. Is there any possibility we are in the 1000 years? I know there has been no time of peace. But these verses sound so immediate.

Gary is right about Matthew 16:27-28 referring to Matthew 17:1-13. Remember, chapter divisions in the Bible are NOT inspired, and they're fairly arbitrary, although some translators tried to keep verse and chapter divisions fairly, logically organized.

Consider also the other Synoptic Gospels, as well. They all three have this account:

Mark 9:1-13

1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.

3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.

4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

6 For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.

7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

8 And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.

9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.

10 And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.

11 And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come?

12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.

13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.

KJV

Luke 9:27-36

27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.

29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.

30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:

31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.

33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.

34 While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.

35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

36 And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.

KJV

This vision is indeed a FORETASTE of the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom, but it was just a vision, as Gary noted, not the actual event which is still in the future.

Now, regarding Matthew 10:23, this is hard for most Christians to understand UNTIL, that is, the light dawns upon them! Remember, Yeshua` was BORN KING OF THE JEWS. His lineage in Matthew 1 is designed specifically to confirm His claim and legitimacy to the throne of David, and many things happened during His "ministry" (actually, during His OFFER OF THE KINGDOM TO Y'HUDAH) that cannot be understood apart from this perspective. His forerunner and herald, Yochanan the Immerser (John the Baptist), proclaims Him as the Messiah of God, and even the very miracles He performed in God's power were to authenticate His claims and His message, the gospel of the Kingdom. That's a focus on the "KINGDOM," not on the word "gospel." All "gospel" means is "good news." It is the "good news about the Kingdom!" And, what is that "good news?"

Isaiah 52:7

7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!

KJV

Thus, this is the true "gospel" that both Yeshua` and His herald proclaimed!

Based on this information, His focus was to provide a legitimate offer of the Kingdom to Y'hudah (Judah) and to Isra'el. Now, see how this played out when Yeshua` sent out His disciples in Matthew 10:

Matthew 10:1-23

1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;

4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7 And as ye go, preach (herald), saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand (within your grasp).

8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,

10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, inquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.

12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.

13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

KJV

Thus, this is NOT even close to being similar to the Great Commission. Their mission here, DURING OUR LORD'S OFFER OF THE KINGDOM, was ONLY to the "lost sheep of the house of Isra'el."

What Yeshua` was saying was that He would be following them as they went from town to town, heralding the coming of the King, and that they wouldn't have covered all the towns of Isra'el before the Son of Man caught up to them! This passage was ONLY for that time period in His "ministry" and is NOT for the time after His death and resurrection!

Could it be that these verses have a second meaning, or that Jesus jumped 2000 years in the middle of a verse, and began speaking of the 144,000 witnessing in Israel during the first half of the 70th week?

Lamad

Not very likely or there would be confusion in their understanding of His words. Where would you find such a break in time? Which verse would you break? Why? No, the simplest explanation of the verses is usually the best. Yeshua` was offering Isra'el Himself as their King. His disciples were trained and empowered to replace Yochanan the Immerser as His forerunners. They were to be His emissaries to all the communities within the Land, and their original mission was to the children of Isra'el, particularly the Jews, just as Yeshua`s mission was. It wasn't until AFTER His final rejection that first Kefa (Peter) and then Sha'uwl (Paul) went to the Goyim or Gentiles.

iamlamad · August 17, 2013

Shalom, Lamad.

Shalom, 1peterlight.

Matthew 10:23
When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
27 "For the Son of Man is going to come with His angels in the glory of His Father, and then He will reward each according to what he has done. 28 I assure you: There are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."
I can't get myself past these verses. I've tried convincing myself it could mean the transfiguration, but frankly, I feel that is a go to when hitting a brick wall. Is there any possibility we are in the 1000 years? I know there has been no time of peace. But these verses sound so immediate.

Gary is right about Matthew 16:27-28 referring to Matthew 17:1-13. Remember, chapter divisions in the Bible are NOT inspired, and they're fairly arbitrary, although some translators tried to keep verse and chapter divisions fairly, logically organized.

Consider also the other Synoptic Gospels, as well. They all three have this account:

Mark 9:1-13

1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.

3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.

4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

6 For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.

7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

8 And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.

9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.

10 And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.

11 And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come?

12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.

13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.

KJV

Luke 9:27-36

27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.

29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.

30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:

31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.

33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.

34 While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.

35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

36 And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.

KJV

This vision is indeed a FORETASTE of the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom, but it was just a vision, as Gary noted, not the actual event which is still in the future.

Now, regarding Matthew 10:23, this is hard for most Christians to understand UNTIL, that is, the light dawns upon them! Remember, Yeshua` was BORN KING OF THE JEWS. His lineage in Matthew 1 is designed specifically to confirm His claim and legitimacy to the throne of David, and many things happened during His "ministry" (actually, during His OFFER OF THE KINGDOM TO Y'HUDAH) that cannot be understood apart from this perspective. His forerunner and herald, Yochanan the Immerser (John the Baptist), proclaims Him as the Messiah of God, and even the very miracles He performed in God's power were to authenticate His claims and His message, the gospel of the Kingdom. That's a focus on the "KINGDOM," not on the word "gospel." All "gospel" means is "good news." It is the "good news about the Kingdom!" And, what is that "good news?"

Isaiah 52:7

7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!

KJV

Thus, this is the true "gospel" that both Yeshua` and His herald proclaimed!

Based on this information, His focus was to provide a legitimate offer of the Kingdom to Y'hudah (Judah) and to Isra'el. Now, see how this played out when Yeshua` sent out His disciples in Matthew 10:

Matthew 10:1-23

1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;

4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7 And as ye go, preach (herald), saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand (within your grasp).

8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,

10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, inquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.

12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.

13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

KJV

Thus, this is NOT even close to being similar to the Great Commission. Their mission here, DURING OUR LORD'S OFFER OF THE KINGDOM, was ONLY to the "lost sheep of the house of Isra'el."

What Yeshua` was saying was that He would be following them as they went from town to town, heralding the coming of the King, and that they wouldn't have covered all the towns of Isra'el before the Son of Man caught up to them! This passage was ONLY for that time period in His "ministry" and is NOT for the time after His death and resurrection!

Could it be that these verses have a second meaning, or that Jesus jumped 2000 years in the middle of a verse, and began speaking of the 144,000 witnessing in Israel during the first half of the 70th week?

Lamad

Not very likely or there would be confusion in their understanding of His words. Where would you find such a break in time? Which verse would you break? Why? No, the simplest explanation of the verses is usually the best. Yeshua` was offering Isra'el Himself as their King. His disciples were trained and empowered to replace Yochanan the Immerser as His forerunners. They were to be His emissaries to all the communities within the Land, and their original mission was to the children of Isra'el, particularly the Jews, just as Yeshua`s mission was. It wasn't until AFTER His final rejection that first Kefa (Peter) and then Sha'uwl (Paul) went to the Goyim or Gentiles.

In your scenario then, Jesus prophecy never came to pass, and never will. I find that impossible. Do you remember the verse Jesus quoted, that He was anointed preach the gospel to the poor, recovering of sight to the blind, etc, I think it is in Luke 4. Jesus stopped quoting in the middle of a verse, because after He quoted it, then He told them that what He has quoted was fulfilled at that moment in time. They took up stones to kill Him for saying it. But my point is, if He could not have quoted the very next phrase, because that part is still in our future! So in one verse, there is a division of time of around 2000 years!

Lamad

Retrobyter · August 17, 2013

Shabbat shalom, Lamad.

Shalom, Lamad.

Shalom, 1peterlight.

Matthew 10:23
When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

27 "For the Son of Man is going to come with His angels in the glory of His Father, and then He will reward each according to what he has done. 28 I assure you: There are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

I can't get myself past these verses. I've tried convincing myself it could mean the transfiguration, but frankly, I feel that is a go to when hitting a brick wall. Is there any possibility we are in the 1000 years? I know there has been no time of peace. But these verses sound so immediate.

Gary is right about Matthew 16:27-28 referring to Matthew 17:1-13. Remember, chapter divisions in the Bible are NOT inspired, and they're fairly arbitrary, although some translators tried to keep verse and chapter divisions fairly, logically organized.

Consider also the other Synoptic Gospels, as well. They all three have this account:

Mark 9:1-13

1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.

3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.

4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

6 For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.

7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

8 And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.

9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.

10 And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.

11 And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come?

12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.

13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.

KJV

Luke 9:27-36

27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.

29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.

30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:

31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.

33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.

34 While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.

35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

36 And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.

KJV

This vision is indeed a FORETASTE of the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom, but it was just a vision, as Gary noted, not the actual event which is still in the future.

Now, regarding Matthew 10:23, this is hard for most Christians to understand UNTIL, that is, the light dawns upon them! Remember, Yeshua` was BORN KING OF THE JEWS. His lineage in Matthew 1 is designed specifically to confirm His claim and legitimacy to the throne of David, and many things happened during His "ministry" (actually, during His OFFER OF THE KINGDOM TO Y'HUDAH) that cannot be understood apart from this perspective. His forerunner and herald, Yochanan the Immerser (John the Baptist), proclaims Him as the Messiah of God, and even the very miracles He performed in God's power were to authenticate His claims and His message, the gospel of the Kingdom. That's a focus on the "KINGDOM," not on the word "gospel." All "gospel" means is "good news." It is the "good news about the Kingdom!" And, what is that "good news?"

Isaiah 52:7

7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!

KJV

Thus, this is the true "gospel" that both Yeshua` and His herald proclaimed!

Based on this information, His focus was to provide a legitimate offer of the Kingdom to Y'hudah (Judah) and to Isra'el. Now, see how this played out when Yeshua` sent out His disciples in Matthew 10:

Matthew 10:1-23

1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;

4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7 And as ye go, preach (herald), saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand (within your grasp).

8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,

10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, inquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.

12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.

13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

KJV

Thus, this is NOT even close to being similar to the Great Commission. Their mission here, DURING OUR LORD'S OFFER OF THE KINGDOM, was ONLY to the "lost sheep of the house of Isra'el."

What Yeshua` was saying was that He would be following them as they went from town to town, heralding the coming of the King, and that they wouldn't have covered all the towns of Isra'el before the Son of Man caught up to them! This passage was ONLY for that time period in His "ministry" and is NOT for the time after His death and resurrection!

Could it be that these verses have a second meaning, or that Jesus jumped 2000 years in the middle of a verse, and began speaking of the 144,000 witnessing in Israel during the first half of the 70th week?

Lamad

Not very likely or there would be confusion in their understanding of His words. Where would you find such a break in time? Which verse would you break? Why? No, the simplest explanation of the verses is usually the best. Yeshua` was offering Isra'el Himself as their King. His disciples were trained and empowered to replace Yochanan the Immerser as His forerunners. They were to be His emissaries to all the communities within the Land, and their original mission was to the children of Isra'el, particularly the Jews, just as Yeshua`s mission was. It wasn't until AFTER His final rejection that first Kefa (Peter) and then Sha'uwl (Paul) went to the Goyim or Gentiles.

In your scenario then, Jesus prophecy never came to pass, and never will. I find that impossible. Do you remember the verse Jesus quoted, that He was anointed preach the gospel to the poor, recovering of sight to the blind, etc, I think it is in Luke 4. Jesus stopped quoting in the middle of a verse, because after He quoted it, then He told them that what He has quoted was fulfilled at that moment in time. They took up stones to kill Him for saying it. But my point is, if He could not have quoted the very next phrase, because that part is still in our future! So in one verse, there is a division of time of around 2000 years!

Lamad

No! Not at all! Yeshua`s "prophecy" DID come true DURING THE 3.5 YEARS OF HIS "MINISTRY" in the early part of the first century! Do you think He was idle, just letting all the people come to Him? NO! He was ITINERATE! He went from town to town, following His announcers! They were to announce the coming of the Messiah, and then He would arrive! He performed miracles because that was GOD'S endorsement of His claim for being the Messiah, His claim of being their King! And, this wasn't the ONLY time He sent out His announcers!

The problem is that modern Christians, unaware of Yeshua`s mission to present Himself as Isra'el's King and unaware of its importance, have both a wrong impression of what the Messiah's mission was and of how He was to fulfill that mission. Because of those misconceptions, modern Christians will OFTEN misread something in the Gospels, attempting to apply what was written to today's belief-system, today's paradigm of the Faith, when it didn't have ANYTHING to do with it at all! Today's modern Christians will therefore get a nebulous, vague, universal approach to what was said in the Gospels, when what was REALLY going on was specific, concrete, and particular to the events of that month or week or even day!

However, if one will choose to read the Scriptures, not for support in what he or she believes, but for new information WITH AN OPEN MIND, he or she will begin to see what was actually going on during our Lord's time here on earth. Read the Scriptures with a FRESH APPROACH, and read them for UNDERSTANDING! In a relaxed way but in a HUNGRY way, read them to get something OUT of them! One should not IMPOSE his or her belief-system on what the Scriptures say, attempting to FORCE the Scriptures to say what he or she WANTS them to say or what he or she THINKS they should say or what he or she WISHES they had said!

Just to re-emphasize Yeshua`s point in this commission to His announcers on that day for that mission, remember how He concluded: "Ye shall not have gone over the cities OF ISRAEL, till the Son of man be come."

iamlamad · August 17, 2013

Shabbat shalom, Lamad.

Shalom, Lamad.

Shalom, 1peterlight.

Matthew 10:23
When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
27 "For the Son of Man is going to come with His angels in the glory of His Father, and then He will reward each according to what he has done. 28 I assure you: There are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."
I can't get myself past these verses. I've tried convincing myself it could mean the transfiguration, but frankly, I feel that is a go to when hitting a brick wall. Is there any possibility we are in the 1000 years? I know there has been no time of peace. But these verses sound so immediate.

Gary is right about Matthew 16:27-28 referring to Matthew 17:1-13. Remember, chapter divisions in the Bible are NOT inspired, and they're fairly arbitrary, although some translators tried to keep verse and chapter divisions fairly, logically organized.

Consider also the other Synoptic Gospels, as well. They all three have this account:

Mark 9:1-13

1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.

3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.

4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

6 For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.

7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

8 And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.

9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.

10 And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.

11 And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come?

12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.

13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.

KJV

Luke 9:27-36

27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.

29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.

30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:

31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.

33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.

34 While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.

35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

36 And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.

KJV

This vision is indeed a FORETASTE of the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom, but it was just a vision, as Gary noted, not the actual event which is still in the future.

Now, regarding Matthew 10:23, this is hard for most Christians to understand UNTIL, that is, the light dawns upon them! Remember, Yeshua` was BORN KING OF THE JEWS. His lineage in Matthew 1 is designed specifically to confirm His claim and legitimacy to the throne of David, and many things happened during His "ministry" (actually, during His OFFER OF THE KINGDOM TO Y'HUDAH) that cannot be understood apart from this perspective. His forerunner and herald, Yochanan the Immerser (John the Baptist), proclaims Him as the Messiah of God, and even the very miracles He performed in God's power were to authenticate His claims and His message, the gospel of the Kingdom. That's a focus on the "KINGDOM," not on the word "gospel." All "gospel" means is "good news." It is the "good news about the Kingdom!" And, what is that "good news?"

Isaiah 52:7

7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!

KJV

Thus, this is the true "gospel" that both Yeshua` and His herald proclaimed!

Based on this information, His focus was to provide a legitimate offer of the Kingdom to Y'hudah (Judah) and to Isra'el. Now, see how this played out when Yeshua` sent out His disciples in Matthew 10:

Matthew 10:1-23

1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;

4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7 And as ye go, preach (herald), saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand (within your grasp).

8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,

10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, inquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.

12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.

13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

KJV

Thus, this is NOT even close to being similar to the Great Commission. Their mission here, DURING OUR LORD'S OFFER OF THE KINGDOM, was ONLY to the "lost sheep of the house of Isra'el."

What Yeshua` was saying was that He would be following them as they went from town to town, heralding the coming of the King, and that they wouldn't have covered all the towns of Isra'el before the Son of Man caught up to them! This passage was ONLY for that time period in His "ministry" and is NOT for the time after His death and resurrection!

Could it be that these verses have a second meaning, or that Jesus jumped 2000 years in the middle of a verse, and began speaking of the 144,000 witnessing in Israel during the first half of the 70th week?

Lamad

Not very likely or there would be confusion in their understanding of His words. Where would you find such a break in time? Which verse would you break? Why? No, the simplest explanation of the verses is usually the best. Yeshua` was offering Isra'el Himself as their King. His disciples were trained and empowered to replace Yochanan the Immerser as His forerunners. They were to be His emissaries to all the communities within the Land, and their original mission was to the children of Isra'el, particularly the Jews, just as Yeshua`s mission was. It wasn't until AFTER His final rejection that first Kefa (Peter) and then Sha'uwl (Paul) went to the Goyim or Gentiles.

In your scenario then, Jesus prophecy never came to pass, and never will. I find that impossible. Do you remember the verse Jesus quoted, that He was anointed preach the gospel to the poor, recovering of sight to the blind, etc, I think it is in Luke 4. Jesus stopped quoting in the middle of a verse, because after He quoted it, then He told them that what He has quoted was fulfilled at that moment in time. They took up stones to kill Him for saying it. But my point is, if He could not have quoted the very next phrase, because that part is still in our future! So in one verse, there is a division of time of around 2000 years!

Lamad

No! Not at all! Yeshua`s "prophecy" DID come true DURING THE 3.5 YEARS OF HIS "MINISTRY" in the early part of the first century! Do you think He was idle, just letting all the people come to Him? NO! He was ITINERATE! He went from town to town, following His announcers! They were to announce the coming of the Messiah, and then He would arrive! He performed miracles because that was GOD'S endorsement of His claim for being the Messiah, His claim of being their King! And, this wasn't the ONLY time He sent out His announcers!

The problem is that modern Christians, unaware of Yeshua`s mission to present Himself as Isra'el's King and unaware of its importance, have both a wrong impression of what the Messiah's mission was and of how He was to fulfill that mission. Because of those misconceptions, modern Christians will OFTEN misread something in the Gospels, attempting to apply what was written to today's belief-system, today's paradigm of the Faith, when it didn't have ANYTHING to do with it at all! Today's modern Christians will therefore get a nebulous, vague, universal approach to what was said in the Gospels, when what was REALLY going on was specific, concrete, and particular to the events of that month or week or even day!

However, if one will choose to read the Scriptures, not for support in what he or she believes, but for new information WITH AN OPEN MIND, he or she will begin to see what was actually going on during our Lord's time here on earth. Read the Scriptures with a FRESH APPROACH, and read them for UNDERSTANDING! In a relaxed way but in a HUNGRY way, read them to get something OUT of them! One should not IMPOSE his or her belief-system on what the Scriptures say, attempting to FORCE the Scriptures to say what he or she WANTS them to say or what he or she THINKS they should say or what he or she WISHES they had said!

Just to re-emphasize Yeshua`s point in this commission to His announcers on that day for that mission, remember how He concluded: "Ye shall not have gone over the cities OF ISRAEL, till the Son of man be come."

What are you saying? VERY LITTLE of what Jesus prophecied came to pass in their generation. In Matt. 24, nothing from the verse of the abomination on to the end of the chapter, or chapter 25 has come to pass. Much of that is for the future period of time called the 70th week of Daniel. No part of the 70th week has come to pass. I know some think the first half is finished, but they are mistaken. The entire 2520 days are still in our future, but very near future. This may be where we will find our biggest disagreement. Lamad

Retrobyter · August 18, 2013

Shalom, Lamad.

Shabbat shalom, Lamad.

Shalom, Lamad.

Shalom, 1peterlight.

Matthew 10:23
When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

27 "For the Son of Man is going to come with His angels in the glory of His Father, and then He will reward each according to what he has done. 28 I assure you: There are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

I can't get myself past these verses. I've tried convincing myself it could mean the transfiguration, but frankly, I feel that is a go to when hitting a brick wall. Is there any possibility we are in the 1000 years? I know there has been no time of peace. But these verses sound so immediate.

Gary is right about Matthew 16:27-28 referring to Matthew 17:1-13. Remember, chapter divisions in the Bible are NOT inspired, and they're fairly arbitrary, although some translators tried to keep verse and chapter divisions fairly, logically organized.

Consider also the other Synoptic Gospels, as well. They all three have this account:

Mark 9:1-13

1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.

3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.

4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

6 For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.

7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

8 And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.

9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.

10 And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.

11 And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come?

12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.

13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.

KJV

Luke 9:27-36

27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.

29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.

30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:

31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.

33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.

34 While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.

35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

36 And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.

KJV

This vision is indeed a FORETASTE of the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom, but it was just a vision, as Gary noted, not the actual event which is still in the future.

Now, regarding Matthew 10:23, this is hard for most Christians to understand UNTIL, that is, the light dawns upon them! Remember, Yeshua` was BORN KING OF THE JEWS. His lineage in Matthew 1 is designed specifically to confirm His claim and legitimacy to the throne of David, and many things happened during His "ministry" (actually, during His OFFER OF THE KINGDOM TO Y'HUDAH) that cannot be understood apart from this perspective. His forerunner and herald, Yochanan the Immerser (John the Baptist), proclaims Him as the Messiah of God, and even the very miracles He performed in God's power were to authenticate His claims and His message, the gospel of the Kingdom. That's a focus on the "KINGDOM," not on the word "gospel." All "gospel" means is "good news." It is the "good news about the Kingdom!" And, what is that "good news?"

Isaiah 52:7

7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!

KJV

Thus, this is the true "gospel" that both Yeshua` and His herald proclaimed!

Based on this information, His focus was to provide a legitimate offer of the Kingdom to Y'hudah (Judah) and to Isra'el. Now, see how this played out when Yeshua` sent out His disciples in Matthew 10:

Matthew 10:1-23

1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;

4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7 And as ye go, preach (herald), saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand (within your grasp).

8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,

10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, inquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.

12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.

13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

KJV

Thus, this is NOT even close to being similar to the Great Commission. Their mission here, DURING OUR LORD'S OFFER OF THE KINGDOM, was ONLY to the "lost sheep of the house of Isra'el."

What Yeshua` was saying was that He would be following them as they went from town to town, heralding the coming of the King, and that they wouldn't have covered all the towns of Isra'el before the Son of Man caught up to them! This passage was ONLY for that time period in His "ministry" and is NOT for the time after His death and resurrection!

Could it be that these verses have a second meaning, or that Jesus jumped 2000 years in the middle of a verse, and began speaking of the 144,000 witnessing in Israel during the first half of the 70th week?

Lamad

Not very likely or there would be confusion in their understanding of His words. Where would you find such a break in time? Which verse would you break? Why? No, the simplest explanation of the verses is usually the best. Yeshua` was offering Isra'el Himself as their King. His disciples were trained and empowered to replace Yochanan the Immerser as His forerunners. They were to be His emissaries to all the communities within the Land, and their original mission was to the children of Isra'el, particularly the Jews, just as Yeshua`s mission was. It wasn't until AFTER His final rejection that first Kefa (Peter) and then Sha'uwl (Paul) went to the Goyim or Gentiles.

In your scenario then, Jesus prophecy never came to pass, and never will. I find that impossible. Do you remember the verse Jesus quoted, that He was anointed preach the gospel to the poor, recovering of sight to the blind, etc, I think it is in Luke 4. Jesus stopped quoting in the middle of a verse, because after He quoted it, then He told them that what He has quoted was fulfilled at that moment in time. They took up stones to kill Him for saying it. But my point is, if He could not have quoted the very next phrase, because that part is still in our future! So in one verse, there is a division of time of around 2000 years!

Lamad

No! Not at all! Yeshua`s "prophecy" DID come true DURING THE 3.5 YEARS OF HIS "MINISTRY" in the early part of the first century! Do you think He was idle, just letting all the people come to Him? NO! He was ITINERATE! He went from town to town, following His announcers! They were to announce the coming of the Messiah, and then He would arrive! He performed miracles because that was GOD'S endorsement of His claim for being the Messiah, His claim of being their King! And, this wasn't the ONLY time He sent out His announcers!

The problem is that modern Christians, unaware of Yeshua`s mission to present Himself as Isra'el's King and unaware of its importance, have both a wrong impression of what the Messiah's mission was and of how He was to fulfill that mission. Because of those misconceptions, modern Christians will OFTEN misread something in the Gospels, attempting to apply what was written to today's belief-system, today's paradigm of the Faith, when it didn't have ANYTHING to do with it at all! Today's modern Christians will therefore get a nebulous, vague, universal approach to what was said in the Gospels, when what was REALLY going on was specific, concrete, and particular to the events of that month or week or even day!

However, if one will choose to read the Scriptures, not for support in what he or she believes, but for new information WITH AN OPEN MIND, he or she will begin to see what was actually going on during our Lord's time here on earth. Read the Scriptures with a FRESH APPROACH, and read them for UNDERSTANDING! In a relaxed way but in a HUNGRY way, read them to get something OUT of them! One should not IMPOSE his or her belief-system on what the Scriptures say, attempting to FORCE the Scriptures to say what he or she WANTS them to say or what he or she THINKS they should say or what he or she WISHES they had said!

Just to re-emphasize Yeshua`s point in this commission to His announcers on that day for that mission, remember how He concluded: "Ye shall not have gone over the cities OF ISRAEL, till the Son of man be come."

What are you saying? VERY LITTLE of what Jesus prophecied came to pass in their generation. In Matt. 24, nothing from the verse of the abomination on to the end of the chapter, or chapter 25 has come to pass. Much of that is for the future period of time called the 70th week of Daniel. No part of the 70th week has come to pass. I know some think the first half is finished, but they are mistaken. The entire 2520 days are still in our future, but very near future. This may be where we will find our biggest disagreement. Lamad

What am I saying?! What are YOU saying? "VERY LITTLE of what Jesus prophesied came to pass in their generation"? WHO SAYS?! Just because you don't understand HOW they could be fulfilled doesn't mean that they weren't fulfilled, and the things written in Matthew 10 WERE fulfilled!

Besides, I'm not talking about Matthew 24; I'm talking about Matthew 10! Some of Matthew 24 WAS predicted about a future far enough distant that it is yet future to us, but that doesn't apply to Matthew 10!

Again, don't confuse the Seventieth Seven of Dani'el 9:27 with the Tribulation predicted by Yeshua` in Matthew 24! They are NOT THE SAME! Learn the REASON for the Seventieth Seven, indeed for all the Seventy Sevens! When one learns the REASON for this time period, one will come to understand that there's not even an overlapping of the two! Yeshua` HIMSELF separated the first half of the Seventieth Seven from the second half when He left the Jews DESOLATE in Matthew 23:38. HE put the "gap" between the two halves of the Seventieth Seven, and that "gap" is called the "Tribulation" by Yeshua` in Matthew 24. Thus, the halves of the Seventieth Seven are like the "BOOKENDS" surrounding the long shelf of books called the "Tribulation." Like this:

(1/2 of Seventieth Seven) (T-R-I-B-U-L-A-T-I-O-N) (1/2 of Seventieth Seven)

And, the first half of the Seventieth Seven was when Yeshua` came the first time and offered the Kingdom during the 3.5 years of His earthly "ministry."

The second half will not happen until the Messiah returns and again offers the Kingdom to Isra'el, particularly to the Jews.

iamlamad · August 18, 2013

Shalom, Lamad.

Shabbat shalom, Lamad.

Shalom, Lamad.

Shalom, 1peterlight.

Matthew 10:23
When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
27 "For the Son of Man is going to come with His angels in the glory of His Father, and then He will reward each according to what he has done. 28 I assure you: There are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."
I can't get myself past these verses. I've tried convincing myself it could mean the transfiguration, but frankly, I feel that is a go to when hitting a brick wall. Is there any possibility we are in the 1000 years? I know there has been no time of peace. But these verses sound so immediate.

Gary is right about Matthew 16:27-28 referring to Matthew 17:1-13. Remember, chapter divisions in the Bible are NOT inspired, and they're fairly arbitrary, although some translators tried to keep verse and chapter divisions fairly, logically organized.

Consider also the other Synoptic Gospels, as well. They all three have this account:

Mark 9:1-13

1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.

3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.

4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

6 For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.

7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

8 And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.

9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.

10 And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.

11 And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come?

12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.

13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.

KJV

Luke 9:27-36

27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.

29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.

30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:

31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.

33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.

34 While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.

35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

36 And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.

KJV

This vision is indeed a FORETASTE of the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom, but it was just a vision, as Gary noted, not the actual event which is still in the future.

Now, regarding Matthew 10:23, this is hard for most Christians to understand UNTIL, that is, the light dawns upon them! Remember, Yeshua` was BORN KING OF THE JEWS. His lineage in Matthew 1 is designed specifically to confirm His claim and legitimacy to the throne of David, and many things happened during His "ministry" (actually, during His OFFER OF THE KINGDOM TO Y'HUDAH) that cannot be understood apart from this perspective. His forerunner and herald, Yochanan the Immerser (John the Baptist), proclaims Him as the Messiah of God, and even the very miracles He performed in God's power were to authenticate His claims and His message, the gospel of the Kingdom. That's a focus on the "KINGDOM," not on the word "gospel." All "gospel" means is "good news." It is the "good news about the Kingdom!" And, what is that "good news?"

Isaiah 52:7

7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!

KJV

Thus, this is the true "gospel" that both Yeshua` and His herald proclaimed!

Based on this information, His focus was to provide a legitimate offer of the Kingdom to Y'hudah (Judah) and to Isra'el. Now, see how this played out when Yeshua` sent out His disciples in Matthew 10:

Matthew 10:1-23

1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;

4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7 And as ye go, preach (herald), saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand (within your grasp).

8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,

10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, inquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.

12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.

13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

KJV

Thus, this is NOT even close to being similar to the Great Commission. Their mission here, DURING OUR LORD'S OFFER OF THE KINGDOM, was ONLY to the "lost sheep of the house of Isra'el."

What Yeshua` was saying was that He would be following them as they went from town to town, heralding the coming of the King, and that they wouldn't have covered all the towns of Isra'el before the Son of Man caught up to them! This passage was ONLY for that time period in His "ministry" and is NOT for the time after His death and resurrection!

Could it be that these verses have a second meaning, or that Jesus jumped 2000 years in the middle of a verse, and began speaking of the 144,000 witnessing in Israel during the first half of the 70th week?

Lamad

Not very likely or there would be confusion in their understanding of His words. Where would you find such a break in time? Which verse would you break? Why? No, the simplest explanation of the verses is usually the best. Yeshua` was offering Isra'el Himself as their King. His disciples were trained and empowered to replace Yochanan the Immerser as His forerunners. They were to be His emissaries to all the communities within the Land, and their original mission was to the children of Isra'el, particularly the Jews, just as Yeshua`s mission was. It wasn't until AFTER His final rejection that first Kefa (Peter) and then Sha'uwl (Paul) went to the Goyim or Gentiles.

In your scenario then, Jesus prophecy never came to pass, and never will. I find that impossible. Do you remember the verse Jesus quoted, that He was anointed preach the gospel to the poor, recovering of sight to the blind, etc, I think it is in Luke 4. Jesus stopped quoting in the middle of a verse, because after He quoted it, then He told them that what He has quoted was fulfilled at that moment in time. They took up stones to kill Him for saying it. But my point is, if He could not have quoted the very next phrase, because that part is still in our future! So in one verse, there is a division of time of around 2000 years!

Lamad

No! Not at all! Yeshua`s "prophecy" DID come true DURING THE 3.5 YEARS OF HIS "MINISTRY" in the early part of the first century! Do you think He was idle, just letting all the people come to Him? NO! He was ITINERATE! He went from town to town, following His announcers! They were to announce the coming of the Messiah, and then He would arrive! He performed miracles because that was GOD'S endorsement of His claim for being the Messiah, His claim of being their King! And, this wasn't the ONLY time He sent out His announcers!

The problem is that modern Christians, unaware of Yeshua`s mission to present Himself as Isra'el's King and unaware of its importance, have both a wrong impression of what the Messiah's mission was and of how He was to fulfill that mission. Because of those misconceptions, modern Christians will OFTEN misread something in the Gospels, attempting to apply what was written to today's belief-system, today's paradigm of the Faith, when it didn't have ANYTHING to do with it at all! Today's modern Christians will therefore get a nebulous, vague, universal approach to what was said in the Gospels, when what was REALLY going on was specific, concrete, and particular to the events of that month or week or even day!

However, if one will choose to read the Scriptures, not for support in what he or she believes, but for new information WITH AN OPEN MIND, he or she will begin to see what was actually going on during our Lord's time here on earth. Read the Scriptures with a FRESH APPROACH, and read them for UNDERSTANDING! In a relaxed way but in a HUNGRY way, read them to get something OUT of them! One should not IMPOSE his or her belief-system on what the Scriptures say, attempting to FORCE the Scriptures to say what he or she WANTS them to say or what he or she THINKS they should say or what he or she WISHES they had said!

Just to re-emphasize Yeshua`s point in this commission to His announcers on that day for that mission, remember how He concluded: "Ye shall not have gone over the cities OF ISRAEL, till the Son of man be come."

What are you saying? VERY LITTLE of what Jesus prophecied came to pass in their generation. In Matt. 24, nothing from the verse of the abomination on to the end of the chapter, or chapter 25 has come to pass. Much of that is for the future period of time called the 70th week of Daniel. No part of the 70th week has come to pass. I know some think the first half is finished, but they are mistaken. The entire 2520 days are still in our future, but very near future. This may be where we will find our biggest disagreement. Lamad

What am I saying?! What are YOU saying? "VERY LITTLE of what Jesus prophesied came to pass in their generation"? WHO SAYS?! Just because you don't understand HOW they could be fulfilled doesn't mean that they weren't fulfilled, and the things written in Matthew 10 WERE fulfilled!

Besides, I'm not talking about Matthew 24; I'm talking about Matthew 10! Some of Matthew 24 WAS predicted about a future far enough distant that it is yet future to us, but that doesn't apply to Matthew 10!

Again, don't confuse the Seventieth Seven of Dani'el 9:27 with the Tribulation predicted by Yeshua` in Matthew 24! They are NOT THE SAME! Learn the REASON for the Seventieth Seven, indeed for all the Seventy Sevens! When one learns the REASON for this time period, one will come to understand that there's not even an overlapping of the two! Yeshua` HIMSELF separated the first half of the Seventieth Seven from the second half when He left the Jews DESOLATE in Matthew 23:38. HE put the "gap" between the two halves of the Seventieth Seven, and that "gap" is called the "Tribulation" by Yeshua` in Matthew 24. Thus, the halves of the Seventieth Seven are like the "BOOKENDS" surrounding the long shelf of books called the "Tribulation." Like this:

(1/2 of Seventieth Seven) (T-R-I-B-U-L-A-T-I-O-N) (1/2 of Seventieth Seven)

And, the first half of the Seventieth Seven was when Yeshua` came the first time and offered the Kingdom during the 3.5 years of His earthly "ministry."

The second half will not happen until the Messiah returns and again offers the Kingdom to Isra'el, particularly to the Jews.

OK, Mat. 10

²²And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. ²³When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Did you notice (or just choose to ignore) "he who endures to the END will be saved?"

Matthew 24:13

But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13

And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

What happened in 70 AD or even in 32 AD was not "the end." In all of these scriptures, Jesus was speaking of the end of this age, which will be just before the 1000 year reign of Christ. So in this part of Mat. 10 HE WAS speaking of the end. How many ends do you see?

I want to cut a pie - a whole pie, never been cut. I have been told my the head chef to cut in only ONCE (one slice of the knife) into exactly two halves. (Are you pictureing this?) So I get the knife and carefully cut the entire pie into two halves. This is the TRUE scenario. Now let's try your scenario.

Again I am told by the head chef to cut the uncut pie into two exact halves. But what I don't know, and the head chef does not know, the cooks wanted some pie and they took half of the pie! So when I get the pie out, half of it is GONE! But the head chef told me to cut the pie in half, so I carefully cut the half of the pie that is left into two equal parts, which are now quarters.

7 years times 360 days per year equals 2520 days. (first pie, first scenario) If I cut it in half, I have two halves, 1260 days each. I have truely divided the pie into half. We read 1260 days in Rev. 11 (two witnesses) and Rev 12, the woman fleeing. This is the true scenario.

Now if I cut 2520 into half in 32 AD and proceed 2000 years into the future, I have only 1260 days left to play with. But what is left must be divided into two halves by an event (the knife). IF I divided 1260 (what is left of the pie after half is eaten) I end up with 630 days. This is your scenario. It is impossible to cut a whole pie into two halves when half the pie is gone! The event that cuts the pie, (the knife) is the abomination. Logic demands that the whole pie MUST be present at the same to for it to be cut into two halves. In your scenario, that is impossible. You have destroyed Daniel 9:27 with your theory.

Dan 9

Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined,

Is poured out on the desolate.”

Note carefully, "in the middle of the week." It is impossible to arrive at the middle of the week, if half of it disappeared 2000 years previous to this time! No, the ONLY way this verse is true, is if the entire week is in our future, so the abomination can cut this week into two halves.

If you understood The chronology of Revelation, you would KNOW that the exact midpoint comes in chapter 11, and is marked by the 7th trumpet. The first half then, is very plain to see: it goes from the 7th seal to the 7th trumpet. It goes from chapter 8 to chapter 11. What do we read in those chapters? We read of the first 6 trumpet judgments. They will come in the first half of the week. They have not happened yet. They are still future.

So your theory is false. It does not fit the scriptures. You should discard it and start over. Revelation is the latest and greatest of the end times writing, and contains the most complete thesis of what is to come. You should start there to form your end times doctrine.

HOW are they fulfilled? How accurate did Daniel tell us about the Medo-persian empire that would destroy Babylon, and Alexander the Great who would destroy the Medo-persian empire, and Rome who would destroy the Grecian empire? Looking back, we see that it was written very clearly and came to pass exactly as Daniel wrote. Why should we expect anything less in the prophecies of Revelation? It is ignorance gone to seed to imagine (as Preterists do) that all of Revelation is fulfilled. I cannot imagine what thougths they think to come up with their theory, but they must spiritualize every verse, or ignore every verse. The correct endtime doctrine will fit perfectly with every end time scripture, for it will be truth. I don't know exactly what it means for a star to fall to the earth, and turns 1/3 of the fresh water to blood. What I do know is, NOTHING like this has ever happened. It is therefore future.

Of course Jesus was itinerate, but what has that to do with our disagreements?

Again, don't confuse the Seventieth Seven of Dani'el 9:27 with the Tribulation predicted by Yeshua` in Matthew 24! They are NOT THE SAME!

Making a statement like this shows that you know very little about the book of Revelation! What begins the days of great tribulation that Jesus spoke of? Did you so easily forget? Jesus said, "Therefore, when you see the abomination......FLEE" That event, the abomination, will be the TRIGGER for days of great tribulation. But they will get worse when the image is erected and the mark enforced, and people forced to worship. But it is the abomination that divides the week, so your theory is only that, a myth based on human reasoning, not scripture. The days of great tribulation spoken of by Jesus will be INSIDE the last half of the 70th week.

Lamad

Retrobyter · August 21, 2013

Shalom, Lamad.

Shalom, Lamad.

Shabbat shalom, Lamad.

Shalom, Lamad.

Shalom, 1peterlight.

Matthew 10:23
When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

27 "For the Son of Man is going to come with His angels in the glory of His Father, and then He will reward each according to what he has done. 28 I assure you: There are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

I can't get myself past these verses. I've tried convincing myself it could mean the transfiguration, but frankly, I feel that is a go to when hitting a brick wall. Is there any possibility we are in the 1000 years? I know there has been no time of peace. But these verses sound so immediate.

Gary is right about Matthew 16:27-28 referring to Matthew 17:1-13. Remember, chapter divisions in the Bible are NOT inspired, and they're fairly arbitrary, although some translators tried to keep verse and chapter divisions fairly, logically organized.

Consider also the other Synoptic Gospels, as well. They all three have this account:

Mark 9:1-13

1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.

3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.

4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

6 For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.

7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

8 And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.

9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.

10 And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.

11 And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come?

12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.

13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.

KJV

Luke 9:27-36

27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.

29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.

30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:

31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.

33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.

34 While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.

35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

36 And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.

KJV

This vision is indeed a FORETASTE of the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom, but it was just a vision, as Gary noted, not the actual event which is still in the future.

Now, regarding Matthew 10:23, this is hard for most Christians to understand UNTIL, that is, the light dawns upon them! Remember, Yeshua` was BORN KING OF THE JEWS. His lineage in Matthew 1 is designed specifically to confirm His claim and legitimacy to the throne of David, and many things happened during His "ministry" (actually, during His OFFER OF THE KINGDOM TO Y'HUDAH) that cannot be understood apart from this perspective. His forerunner and herald, Yochanan the Immerser (John the Baptist), proclaims Him as the Messiah of God, and even the very miracles He performed in God's power were to authenticate His claims and His message, the gospel of the Kingdom. That's a focus on the "KINGDOM," not on the word "gospel." All "gospel" means is "good news." It is the "good news about the Kingdom!" And, what is that "good news?"

Isaiah 52:7

7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!

KJV

Thus, this is the true "gospel" that both Yeshua` and His herald proclaimed!

Based on this information, His focus was to provide a legitimate offer of the Kingdom to Y'hudah (Judah) and to Isra'el. Now, see how this played out when Yeshua` sent out His disciples in Matthew 10:

Matthew 10:1-23

1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;

4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7 And as ye go, preach (herald), saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand (within your grasp).

8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,

10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, inquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.

12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.

13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

KJV

Thus, this is NOT even close to being similar to the Great Commission. Their mission here, DURING OUR LORD'S OFFER OF THE KINGDOM, was ONLY to the "lost sheep of the house of Isra'el."

What Yeshua` was saying was that He would be following them as they went from town to town, heralding the coming of the King, and that they wouldn't have covered all the towns of Isra'el before the Son of Man caught up to them! This passage was ONLY for that time period in His "ministry" and is NOT for the time after His death and resurrection!

Could it be that these verses have a second meaning, or that Jesus jumped 2000 years in the middle of a verse, and began speaking of the 144,000 witnessing in Israel during the first half of the 70th week?

Lamad

Not very likely or there would be confusion in their understanding of His words. Where would you find such a break in time? Which verse would you break? Why? No, the simplest explanation of the verses is usually the best. Yeshua` was offering Isra'el Himself as their King. His disciples were trained and empowered to replace Yochanan the Immerser as His forerunners. They were to be His emissaries to all the communities within the Land, and their original mission was to the children of Isra'el, particularly the Jews, just as Yeshua`s mission was. It wasn't until AFTER His final rejection that first Kefa (Peter) and then Sha'uwl (Paul) went to the Goyim or Gentiles.

In your scenario then, Jesus prophecy never came to pass, and never will. I find that impossible. Do you remember the verse Jesus quoted, that He was anointed preach the gospel to the poor, recovering of sight to the blind, etc, I think it is in Luke 4. Jesus stopped quoting in the middle of a verse, because after He quoted it, then He told them that what He has quoted was fulfilled at that moment in time. They took up stones to kill Him for saying it. But my point is, if He could not have quoted the very next phrase, because that part is still in our future! So in one verse, there is a division of time of around 2000 years!

Lamad

No! Not at all! Yeshua`s "prophecy" DID come true DURING THE 3.5 YEARS OF HIS "MINISTRY" in the early part of the first century! Do you think He was idle, just letting all the people come to Him? NO! He was ITINERATE! He went from town to town, following His announcers! They were to announce the coming of the Messiah, and then He would arrive! He performed miracles because that was GOD'S endorsement of His claim for being the Messiah, His claim of being their King! And, this wasn't the ONLY time He sent out His announcers!

The problem is that modern Christians, unaware of Yeshua`s mission to present Himself as Isra'el's King and unaware of its importance, have both a wrong impression of what the Messiah's mission was and of how He was to fulfill that mission. Because of those misconceptions, modern Christians will OFTEN misread something in the Gospels, attempting to apply what was written to today's belief-system, today's paradigm of the Faith, when it didn't have ANYTHING to do with it at all! Today's modern Christians will therefore get a nebulous, vague, universal approach to what was said in the Gospels, when what was REALLY going on was specific, concrete, and particular to the events of that month or week or even day!

However, if one will choose to read the Scriptures, not for support in what he or she believes, but for new information WITH AN OPEN MIND, he or she will begin to see what was actually going on during our Lord's time here on earth. Read the Scriptures with a FRESH APPROACH, and read them for UNDERSTANDING! In a relaxed way but in a HUNGRY way, read them to get something OUT of them! One should not IMPOSE his or her belief-system on what the Scriptures say, attempting to FORCE the Scriptures to say what he or she WANTS them to say or what he or she THINKS they should say or what he or she WISHES they had said!

Just to re-emphasize Yeshua`s point in this commission to His announcers on that day for that mission, remember how He concluded: "Ye shall not have gone over the cities OF ISRAEL, till the Son of man be come."

What are you saying? VERY LITTLE of what Jesus prophecied came to pass in their generation. In Matt. 24, nothing from the verse of the abomination on to the end of the chapter, or chapter 25 has come to pass. Much of that is for the future period of time called the 70th week of Daniel. No part of the 70th week has come to pass. I know some think the first half is finished, but they are mistaken. The entire 2520 days are still in our future, but very near future. This may be where we will find our biggest disagreement. Lamad

What am I saying?! What are YOU saying? "VERY LITTLE of what Jesus prophesied came to pass in their generation"? WHO SAYS?! Just because you don't understand HOW they could be fulfilled doesn't mean that they weren't fulfilled, and the things written in Matthew 10 WERE fulfilled!

Besides, I'm not talking about Matthew 24; I'm talking about Matthew 10! Some of Matthew 24 WAS predicted about a future far enough distant that it is yet future to us, but that doesn't apply to Matthew 10!

Again, don't confuse the Seventieth Seven of Dani'el 9:27 with the Tribulation predicted by Yeshua` in Matthew 24! They are NOT THE SAME! Learn the REASON for the Seventieth Seven, indeed for all the Seventy Sevens! When one learns the REASON for this time period, one will come to understand that there's not even an overlapping of the two! Yeshua` HIMSELF separated the first half of the Seventieth Seven from the second half when He left the Jews DESOLATE in Matthew 23:38. HE put the "gap" between the two halves of the Seventieth Seven, and that "gap" is called the "Tribulation" by Yeshua` in Matthew 24. Thus, the halves of the Seventieth Seven are like the "BOOKENDS" surrounding the long shelf of books called the "Tribulation." Like this:

(1/2 of Seventieth Seven) (T-R-I-B-U-L-A-T-I-O-N) (1/2 of Seventieth Seven)

And, the first half of the Seventieth Seven was when Yeshua` came the first time and offered the Kingdom during the 3.5 years of His earthly "ministry."

The second half will not happen until the Messiah returns and again offers the Kingdom to Isra'el, particularly to the Jews.

OK, Mat. 10

²²And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. ²³When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Did you notice (or just choose to ignore) "he who endures to the END will be saved?"

Matthew 24:13

But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

What happened in 70 AD or even in 32 AD was not "the end." In all of these scriptures, Jesus was speaking of the end of this age, which will be just before the 1000 year reign of Christ. So in this part of Mat. 10 HE WAS speaking of the end. How many ends do you see?

I want to cut a pie - a whole pie, never been cut. I have been told my the head chef to cut in only ONCE (one slice of the knife) into exactly two halves. (Are you pictureing this?) So I get the knife and carefully cut the entire pie into two halves. This is the TRUE scenario. Now let's try your scenario.

Again I am told by the head chef to cut the uncut pie into two exact halves. But what I don't know, and the head chef does not know, the cooks wanted some pie and they took half of the pie! So when I get the pie out, half of it is GONE! But the head chef told me to cut the pie in half, so I carefully cut the half of the pie that is left into two equal parts, which are now quarters.

7 years times 360 days per year equals 2520 days. (first pie, first scenario) If I cut it in half, I have two halves, 1260 days each. I have truely divided the pie into half. We read 1260 days in Rev. 11 (two witnesses) and Rev 12, the woman fleeing. This is the true scenario.

Now if I cut 2520 into half in 32 AD and proceed 2000 years into the future, I have only 1260 days left to play with. But what is left must be divided into two halves by an event (the knife). IF I divided 1260 (what is left of the pie after half is eaten) I end up with 630 days. This is your scenario. It is impossible to cut a whole pie into two halves when half the pie is gone! The event that cuts the pie, (the knife) is the abomination. Logic demands that the whole pie MUST be present at the same to for it to be cut into two halves. In your scenario, that is impossible. You have destroyed Daniel 9:27 with your theory.

Dan 9

Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”

Note carefully, "in the middle of the week." It is impossible to arrive at the middle of the week, if half of it disappeared 2000 years previous to this time! No, the ONLY way this verse is true, is if the entire week is in our future, so the abomination can cut this week into two halves.

If you understood The chronology of Revelation, you would KNOW that the exact midpoint comes in chapter 11, and is marked by the 7th trumpet. The first half then, is very plain to see: it goes from the 7th seal to the 7th trumpet. It goes from chapter 8 to chapter 11. What do we read in those chapters? We read of the first 6 trumpet judgments. They will come in the first half of the week. They have not happened yet. They are still future.

So your theory is false. It does not fit the scriptures. You should discard it and start over. Revelation is the latest and greatest of the end times writing, and contains the most complete thesis of what is to come. You should start there to form your end times doctrine.

HOW are they fulfilled? How accurate did Daniel tell us about the Medo-persian empire that would destroy Babylon, and Alexander the Great who would destroy the Medo-persian empire, and Rome who would destroy the Grecian empire? Looking back, we see that it was written very clearly and came to pass exactly as Daniel wrote. Why should we expect anything less in the prophecies of Revelation? It is ignorance gone to seed to imagine (as Preterists do) that all of Revelation is fulfilled. I cannot imagine what thougths they think to come up with their theory, but they must spiritualize every verse, or ignore every verse. The correct endtime doctrine will fit perfectly with every end time scripture, for it will be truth. I don't know exactly what it means for a star to fall to the earth, and turns 1/3 of the fresh water to blood. What I do know is, NOTHING like this has ever happened. It is therefore future.

Of course Jesus was itinerate, but what has that to do with our disagreements?

Again, don't confuse the Seventieth Seven of Dani'el 9:27 with the Tribulation predicted by Yeshua` in Matthew 24! They are NOT THE SAME!

Making a statement like this shows that you know very little about the book of Revelation! What begins the days of great tribulation that Jesus spoke of? Did you so easily forget? Jesus said, "Therefore, when you see the abomination......FLEE" That event, the abomination, will be the TRIGGER for days of great tribulation. But they will get worse when the image is erected and the mark enforced, and people forced to worship. But it is the abomination that divides the week, so your theory is only that, a myth based on human reasoning, not scripture. The days of great tribulation spoken of by Jesus will be INSIDE the last half of the 70th week.

Lamad

The phrase used in Matthew 10:22 is fairly commonplace in Greek. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. The phrase "ho (de) hupomeinas eis telos houtos sootheesetai" is not talking about THE END of it all, nor is it talking about the end of the age! It's just talking about the end of the current project, whatever that project may be. Literally, it translates to "... (but) the one-who-survives into a-conclusion that-one shall-be-rescued." In Matthew 10:22 IN CONTEXT, He is talking about the MISSION on which He was sending His talmidyim - His disciples - His announcers!

Maybe another version can help one see the reality of what was going on DURING Yeshua`s first advent when He was offering the Kingdom to Isra'el:

Mattityahu 10:1-11:1

10:1 Yeshua called his twelve talmidim and gave them authority to drive out unclean spirits and to heal every kind of disease and weakness. 2 These are the names of the twelve emissaries:

First, Shim‘on, called Kefa, and Andrew his brother,

Ya‘akov Ben-Zavdai and Yochanan his brother,

3 Philip and Bar-Talmai,

T’oma and Mattityahu the tax-collector,

Ya‘akov Bar-Halfai and Taddai,

4 Shim‘on the Zealot, and Y’hudah from K’riot, who betrayed him.

5 These twelve Yeshua sent out with the following instructions: “Don’t go into the territory of the Goyim, and don’t enter any town in Shomron, 6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Isra’el. 7 As you go, proclaim, ‘The Kingdom of Heaven is near,’ 8 heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those afflicted with tzara’at, expel demons. You have received without paying, so give without asking payment. 9 Don’t take money in your belts, no gold, no silver, no copper; 10 and for the trip don’t take a pack, an extra shirt, shoes or a walking stick — a worker should be given what he needs.

11 “When you come to a town or village, look for someone trustworthy and stay with him until you leave. 12 When you enter someone’s household, say, ‘Shalom aleikhem!’ 13 If the home deserves it, let your shalom rest on it; if not, let your shalom return to you. 14 But if the people of a house or town will not welcome you or listen to you, leave it and shake its dust from your feet! 15 Yes, I tell you, it will be more tolerable on the Day of Judgment for the people of S’dom and ‘Amora than for that town!

16 “Pay attention! I am sending you out like sheep among wolves, so be as prudent as snakes and as harmless as doves. 17 Be on guard, for there will be people who will hand you over to the local Sanhedrins and flog you in their synagogues. 18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as a testimony to them and to the Goyim. 19 But when they bring you to trial, do not worry about what to say or how to say it; when the time comes, you will be given what you should say. 20 For it will not be just you speaking, but the Spirit of your heavenly Father speaking through you.

21 “A brother will betray his brother to death, and a father his child; children will turn against their parents and have them put to death. 22 Everyone will hate you because of me, but whoever holds out till the end will be preserved from harm. 23 When you are persecuted in one town, run away to another. Yes indeed; I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Isra’el before the Son of Man comes.

24 “A talmid is not greater than his rabbi, a slave is not greater than his master. 25 It is enough for a talmid that he become like his rabbi, and a slave like his master. Now if people have called the head of the house Ba‘al-Zibbul, how much more will they malign the members of his household! 26 So do not fear them; for there is nothing covered that will not be uncovered, or hidden that will not be known. 27 What I tell you in the dark, speak in the light; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim on the housetops.

28 “Do not fear those who kill the body but are powerless to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Gei-Hinnom. 29 Aren’t sparrows sold for next to nothing, two for an assarion? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground without your Father’s consent. 30 As for you, every hair on your head has been counted. 31 So do not be afraid, you are worth more than many sparrows.

32 “Whoever acknowledges me in the presence of others I will also acknowledge in the presence of my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others I will disown before my Father in heaven.

34 “Don’t suppose that I have come to bring peace to the Land. It is not peace I have come to bring, but a sword! 35 For I have come to set

36 a man against his father,

a daughter against her mother,

a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law,

so that a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household. (Micah 7:6)

37 Whoever loves his father or mother more than he loves me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than he loves me is not worthy of me. 38 And anyone who does not take up his execution-stake and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his own life will lose it, but the person who loses his life for my sake will find it.

40 “Whoever receives you is receiving me, and whoever receives me is receiving the One who sent me. 41 Anyone who receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive the reward a prophet gets, and anyone who receives a tzaddik because he is a tzaddik will receive the reward a tzaddik gets. 42 Indeed, if someone gives just a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because he is my talmid — yes! — I tell you, he will certainly not lose his reward!”

11:1 After Yeshua had finished instructing the twelve talmidim, he went on from there to teach and preach in the towns nearby.

CJB

Look at how it begins and how it ends! Everything else in the middle is about His instructions to His talmidiym (His students or disciples) FOR THAT MISSION!!! If you want to carry that attitude into the present for OUR future, you do so PURELY BY APPLICATION!

iamlamad · August 21, 2013

Retrobyter wrote,

Look at how it begins and how it ends! Everything else in the middle is about His instructions to His talmidiym (His students or disciples) FOR THAT MISSION!!! If you want to carry that attitude into the present for OUR future, you do so PURELY BY APPLICATION!

I disagree. I think He changed from simple instructions for that day, into prophecy of the far future. His instructions for the day: "proclaim, ‘The Kingdom of Heaven is near,’ 8 heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those afflicted with tzara’at, expel demons. You have received without paying, so give without asking payment."

But notice: "17 Be on guard, for there will be people who will hand you over to the local Sanhedrins and flog you in their synagogues. 18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as a testimony to them and to the Goyim. 19 But when they bring you to trial, do not worry about what to say or how to say it; when the time comes, you will be given what you should say. 20 For it will not be just you speaking, but the Spirit of your heavenly Father speaking through you.

21 “A brother will betray his brother to death, and a father his child; children will turn against their parents and have them put to death. 22 Everyone will hate you because of me, but whoever holds out till the end will be preserved from harm. 23 When you are persecuted in one town, run away to another. Yes indeed; I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Isra’el before the Son of Man comes."

These things did not happen on this missions trip! Did Jesus miss it? No, from this point on, I think this is prophecy, no longer just instructions. And Jesus had not yet left, so of course He could not "come!"

Lamad

enoob57 · August 22, 2013

Matthew 10:23
When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
27 "For the Son of Man is going to come with His angels in the glory of His Father, and then He will reward each according to what he has done. 28 I assure you: There are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."
I can't get myself past these verses. I've tried convincing myself it could mean the transfiguration, but frankly, I feel that is a go to when hitting a brick wall. Is there any possibility we are in the 1000 years? I know there has been no time of peace. But these verses sound so immediate.

Here is a reality you may not have considered....

John in 90's ^AD was translated into the witnessed Kingdom of our Lord! All the way to the new heaven and earth!

As the Lord was talking- (in text you quoted)- to His beloved disciples it is quite possible he was instructing each a portion of the

experienced truth of the whole... It would certainly answer for the Scriptures you have in question of by context! Love, Steven

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