Did Jesus already return?

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Lamad.

 

 

Retrobyter wrote,

 

Look at how it begins and how it ends! Everything else in the middle is about His instructions to His talmidiym (His students or disciples) FOR THAT MISSION!!! If you want to carry that attitude into the present for OUR future, you do so PURELY BY APPLICATION!

 

I disagree. I think He changed from simple instructions for that day, into prophecy of the far future. His instructions for the day: "proclaim, ‘The Kingdom of Heaven is near,’ 8 heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those afflicted with tzara’at, expel demons. You have received without paying, so give without asking payment."

 

But notice:  "17 Be on guard, for there will be people who will hand you over to the local Sanhedrins and flog you in their synagogues. 18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as a testimony to them and to the Goyim. 19 But when they bring you to trial, do not worry about what to say or how to say it; when the time comes, you will be given what you should say. 20 For it will not be just you speaking, but the Spirit of your heavenly Father speaking through you. 

 

21 “A brother will betray his brother to death, and a father his child; children will turn against their parents and have them put to death. 22 Everyone will hate you because of me, but whoever holds out till the end will be preserved from harm. 23 When you are persecuted in one town, run away to another. Yes indeed; I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Isra’el before the Son of Man comes."

 

These things did not happen on this missions trip! Did Jesus miss it? No, from this point on, I think this is prophecy, no longer just instructions. And Jesus had not yet left, so of course He could not "come!"

 

Lamad

 

 

What makes you think that these things didn't happen on this "missions trip?" Not everything that happened during Yeshua`s "ministry" was written down! Consider John's words at the end of His book:

 

 

John 21:20-25

20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?

21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?

22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

KJV

 

In fact, if Yeshua` said that they would happen, they probably DID happen! I mean, wouldn't it be highly possible that a town's people, disbelieving that Yeshua` was the Messiah, would have His announcers flogged in the synagogue?

 

You can make your assumption that these words are about the future. I'm going to assume that Yeshua` knew what He was talking about when He sent them out as "sheep among wolves!"

[iamlamad]

Shalom, Lamad.

 

 

Retrobyter wrote,

 

Look at how it begins and how it ends! Everything else in the middle is about His instructions to His talmidiym (His students or disciples) FOR THAT MISSION!!! If you want to carry that attitude into the present for OUR future, you do so PURELY BY APPLICATION!

 

I disagree. I think He changed from simple instructions for that day, into prophecy of the far future. His instructions for the day: "proclaim, ‘The Kingdom of Heaven is near,’ 8 heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those afflicted with tzara’at, expel demons. You have received without paying, so give without asking payment."

 

But notice:  "17 Be on guard, for there will be people who will hand you over to the local Sanhedrins and flog you in their synagogues. 18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as a testimony to them and to the Goyim. 19 But when they bring you to trial, do not worry about what to say or how to say it; when the time comes, you will be given what you should say. 20 For it will not be just you speaking, but the Spirit of your heavenly Father speaking through you. 

 

21 “A brother will betray his brother to death, and a father his child; children will turn against their parents and have them put to death. 22 Everyone will hate you because of me, but whoever holds out till the end will be preserved from harm. 23 When you are persecuted in one town, run away to another. Yes indeed; I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Isra’el before the Son of Man comes."

 

These things did not happen on this missions trip! Did Jesus miss it? No, from this point on, I think this is prophecy, no longer just instructions. And Jesus had not yet left, so of course He could not "come!"

 

Lamad

 

 

What makes you think that these things didn't happen on this "missions trip?" Not everything that happened during Yeshua`s "ministry" was written down! Consider John's words at the end of His book:

 

 

John 21:20-25

20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?

21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?

22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

KJV

 

In fact, if Yeshua` said that they would happen, they probably DID happen! I mean, wouldn't it be highly possible that a town's people, disbelieving that Yeshua` was the Messiah, would have His announcers flogged in the synagogue?

 

You can make your assumption that these words are about the future. I'm going to assume that Yeshua` knew what He was talking about when He sent them out as "sheep among wolves!"

It is well known to us today that many Old Testament prophecies divided in the middle of a verse from short term prophecy to long term prophecy:

 

Isa. 61

1: “The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me,

Because the Lord has anointed Me

To preach good tidings to the poor;

He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,

To proclaim liberty to the captives,

And the opening of the prison to those who are bound;

² To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,

And the day of vengeance of our God;

To comfort all who mourn,

 

Jesus stopped quoting at the end of the blue text, yet the quoted verse kept on. WHY did Jesus stop in the middle of a verse? It is very simple: the next phrase, about the Day of Bengeance, would be 2000 years into the future in fulfillment, compared to what Jesus read, which was fulfilled as Jesus read it.

 

This is only one example. Since this was already a president in scripture, I believe this same precident carried over into the New Testament, expecially in the gospels, which was Jesus operating as a prophet under the OLD covenant.

 

If Jesus prophesied it, OF COURSE it will happen, or did happen. But in this case, it did NOT happen. It would have been written had it happened, but they returned very happy that demonic spirits were cast out.

 

Retrobyter, don't be blind to future prophecy: there is MUCH prophecies that is yet to be fulfilled. Revelation 8 though 16, the 70th week of Daniel, is still in our future. The 6th seal, the signs for the Day of the Lord, is still in our future. The sealing of the 144,000 is still in our future. The pretrib rapture of the church is still in our future. All these things have been written and will certainly come to pass. Therefore, don't get so deep into history that you miss what is prophecy of our future.

 

Lamad

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Lamad.

 

 

Shalom, Lamad.

 

 

Retrobyter wrote,

 

Look at how it begins and how it ends! Everything else in the middle is about His instructions to His talmidiym (His students or disciples) FOR THAT MISSION!!! If you want to carry that attitude into the present for OUR future, you do so PURELY BY APPLICATION!

 

I disagree. I think He changed from simple instructions for that day, into prophecy of the far future. His instructions for the day: "proclaim, ‘The Kingdom of Heaven is near,’ 8 heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those afflicted with tzara’at, expel demons. You have received without paying, so give without asking payment."

 

But notice:  "17 Be on guard, for there will be people who will hand you over to the local Sanhedrins and flog you in their synagogues. 18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as a testimony to them and to the Goyim. 19 But when they bring you to trial, do not worry about what to say or how to say it; when the time comes, you will be given what you should say. 20 For it will not be just you speaking, but the Spirit of your heavenly Father speaking through you. 

 

21 “A brother will betray his brother to death, and a father his child; children will turn against their parents and have them put to death. 22 Everyone will hate you because of me, but whoever holds out till the end will be preserved from harm. 23 When you are persecuted in one town, run away to another. Yes indeed; I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Isra’el before the Son of Man comes."

 

These things did not happen on this missions trip! Did Jesus miss it? No, from this point on, I think this is prophecy, no longer just instructions. And Jesus had not yet left, so of course He could not "come!"

 

Lamad

 

 

What makes you think that these things didn't happen on this "missions trip?" Not everything that happened during Yeshua`s "ministry" was written down! Consider John's words at the end of His book:

 

 

John 21:20-25

20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?

21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?

22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

KJV

 

In fact, if Yeshua` said that they would happen, they probably DID happen! I mean, wouldn't it be highly possible that a town's people, disbelieving that Yeshua` was the Messiah, would have His announcers flogged in the synagogue?

 

You can make your assumption that these words are about the future. I'm going to assume that Yeshua` knew what He was talking about when He sent them out as "sheep among wolves!"

It is well known to us today that many Old Testament prophecies divided in the middle of a verse from short term prophecy to long term prophecy:

 

Isa. 61

1: “The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me,
Because the Lord has anointed Me
To preach good tidings to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives,
And the opening of the prison to those who are bound;
² To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,
And the day of vengeance of our God;
To comfort all who mourn,

 

Jesus stopped quoting at the end of the blue text, yet the quoted verse kept on. WHY did Jesus stop in the middle of a verse? It is very simple: the next phrase, about the Day of Bengeance, would be 2000 years into the future in fulfillment, compared to what Jesus read, which was fulfilled as Jesus read it.

 

This is only one example. Since this was already a president in scripture, I believe this same precident carried over into the New Testament, expecially in the gospels, which was Jesus operating as a prophet under the OLD covenant.

 

If Jesus prophesied it, OF COURSE it will happen, or did happen. But in this case, it did NOT happen. It would have been written had it happened, but they returned very happy that demonic spirits were cast out.

 

Retrobyter, don't be blind to future prophecy: there is MUCH prophecies that is yet to be fulfilled. Revelation 8 though 16, the 70th week of Daniel, is still in our future. The 6th seal, the signs for the Day of the Lord, is still in our future. The sealing of the 144,000 is still in our future. The pretrib rapture of the church is still in our future. All these things have been written and will certainly come to pass. Therefore, don't get so deep into history that you miss what is prophecy of our future.

 

Lamad

 

 

Yes, I know that Yeshua` even divided some of those prophecies, such as in Luke 4:18-19 where He quoted these verses from Isaiah 61:1-2a; I'm not blind to it, bro'. However, I am also not blind to the way that modern Christians will camp on a word or a phrase as a label, title, nomenclature, or a tag and RIP it from its context as though it belonged to the future when it was perfectly fine where it was!

 

The Gospels are often VERY misunderstood, particularly when certain "holy words" are used. For instance, how often have you heard people misuse quotations from the Gospel when the authors used the word "church"? The word "church" is a word that the original translators into English used to translate the word "ekkleesia." However, that is NOT what it means in the Gospels! It means the assembled children of Isra'el in the Land!

 

Here's the two examples:

 

 

Matthew 16:17-20

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

KJV

 

Matthew 18:15-20

15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

KJV

 

Has it even dawned upon the Christian's mind that the "church" as it is defined today wasn't even in existence then?! Here's another example of how the word "church" was used: Check out Stephen's "sermon" in Acts 7:

 

 

Acts 7:37-40

37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

39 To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt,

40 Saying unto Aaron, Make us gods to go before us: for as for this Moses, which brought us out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.

KJV

 

This is talking about the congregation of the children of Isra'el in the wilderness. And, I believe that is how Yeshua` meant it as well. In any case, be careful about pushing Yeshua`s words off into the future. He was often in the process of offering the Kingdom to Isra'el, particularly before the rulers were able to convince the people to reject Him.

[iamlamad]

Shalom, Lamad.

 

 

Shalom, Lamad.

 

 

Retrobyter wrote,

 

Look at how it begins and how it ends! Everything else in the middle is about His instructions to His talmidiym (His students or disciples) FOR THAT MISSION!!! If you want to carry that attitude into the present for OUR future, you do so PURELY BY APPLICATION!

 

I disagree. I think He changed from simple instructions for that day, into prophecy of the far future. His instructions for the day: "proclaim, ‘The Kingdom of Heaven is near,’ 8 heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those afflicted with tzara’at, expel demons. You have received without paying, so give without asking payment."

 

But notice:  "17 Be on guard, for there will be people who will hand you over to the local Sanhedrins and flog you in their synagogues. 18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as a testimony to them and to the Goyim. 19 But when they bring you to trial, do not worry about what to say or how to say it; when the time comes, you will be given what you should say. 20 For it will not be just you speaking, but the Spirit of your heavenly Father speaking through you. 

 

21 “A brother will betray his brother to death, and a father his child; children will turn against their parents and have them put to death. 22 Everyone will hate you because of me, but whoever holds out till the end will be preserved from harm. 23 When you are persecuted in one town, run away to another. Yes indeed; I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Isra’el before the Son of Man comes."

 

These things did not happen on this missions trip! Did Jesus miss it? No, from this point on, I think this is prophecy, no longer just instructions. And Jesus had not yet left, so of course He could not "come!"

 

Lamad

 

 

What makes you think that these things didn't happen on this "missions trip?" Not everything that happened during Yeshua`s "ministry" was written down! Consider John's words at the end of His book:

 

 

John 21:20-25

20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?

21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?

22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

KJV

 

In fact, if Yeshua` said that they would happen, they probably DID happen! I mean, wouldn't it be highly possible that a town's people, disbelieving that Yeshua` was the Messiah, would have His announcers flogged in the synagogue?

 

You can make your assumption that these words are about the future. I'm going to assume that Yeshua` knew what He was talking about when He sent them out as "sheep among wolves!"

It is well known to us today that many Old Testament prophecies divided in the middle of a verse from short term prophecy to long term prophecy:

 

Isa. 61

1: “The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me,

Because the Lord has anointed Me

To preach good tidings to the poor;

He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,

To proclaim liberty to the captives,

And the opening of the prison to those who are bound;

² To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,

And the day of vengeance of our God;

To comfort all who mourn,

 

Jesus stopped quoting at the end of the blue text, yet the quoted verse kept on. WHY did Jesus stop in the middle of a verse? It is very simple: the next phrase, about the Day of Bengeance, would be 2000 years into the future in fulfillment, compared to what Jesus read, which was fulfilled as Jesus read it.

 

This is only one example. Since this was already a president in scripture, I believe this same precident carried over into the New Testament, expecially in the gospels, which was Jesus operating as a prophet under the OLD covenant.

 

If Jesus prophesied it, OF COURSE it will happen, or did happen. But in this case, it did NOT happen. It would have been written had it happened, but they returned very happy that demonic spirits were cast out.

 

Retrobyter, don't be blind to future prophecy: there is MUCH prophecies that is yet to be fulfilled. Revelation 8 though 16, the 70th week of Daniel, is still in our future. The 6th seal, the signs for the Day of the Lord, is still in our future. The sealing of the 144,000 is still in our future. The pretrib rapture of the church is still in our future. All these things have been written and will certainly come to pass. Therefore, don't get so deep into history that you miss what is prophecy of our future.

 

Lamad

 

 

Yes, I know that Yeshua` even divided some of those prophecies, such as in Luke 4:18-19 where He quoted these verses from Isaiah 61:1-2a; I'm not blind to it, bro'. However, I am also not blind to the way that modern Christians will camp on a word or a phrase as a label, title, nomenclature, or a tag and RIP it from its context as though it belonged to the future when it was perfectly fine where it was!

 

The Gospels are often VERY misunderstood, particularly when certain "holy words" are used. For instance, how often have you heard people misuse quotations from the Gospel when the authors used the word "church"? The word "church" is a word that the original translators into English used to translate the word "ekkleesia." However, that is NOT what it means in the Gospels! It means the assembled children of Isra'el in the Land!

 

Here's the two examples:

 

 

Matthew 16:17-20

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

KJV

 

Matthew 18:15-20

15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

KJV

 

Has it even dawned upon the Christian's mind that the "church" as it is defined today wasn't even in existence then?! Here's another example of how the word "church" was used: Check out Stephen's "sermon" in Acts 7:

 

 

Acts 7:37-40

37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

39 To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt,

40 Saying unto Aaron, Make us gods to go before us: for as for this Moses, which brought us out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.

KJV

 

This is talking about the congregation of the children of Isra'el in the wilderness. And, I believe that is how Yeshua` meant it as well. In any case, be careful about pushing Yeshua`s words off into the future. He was often in the process of offering the Kingdom to Isra'el, particularly before the rulers were able to convince the people to reject Him.

You are absolutely right, pulling a verse out of its context is FAR too common place. It is one reason why we have so many different denominations today; the leaders don't understand the intent of the author, and often that is because the verse is not left in its context. I find the first seal so often out of its context, and of course misunderstood.

 

Ha ha! Surely you know that the Catholic church uses this verse as one of their anchors: Peter being the first pope!  I doubt if Peter was ever in Rome. Did you know they believe strongly that they have found Peter's burial in Jerusalem?  However, the word church there, that God will build His church upon the rock of "revelation knowledge." Here, I must disagree with you in the Author's intent. Notice, this very same Greek word is used here:

 

Act 2:47   Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. 1Cr 1:2  

Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called [to be] saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

 

In the second example, it of course is referring to the Gentile church at Corinth. The (mostly Gentile) church as contined unstopped for all these centuries, still founded on the revealed knowledge of the Word of God.

 

Lamad

[Retrobyter]

 

Shalom, Lamad.

 

...

 

Yes, I know that Yeshua` even divided some of those prophecies, such as in Luke 4:18-19 where He quoted these verses from Isaiah 61:1-2a; I'm not blind to it, bro'. However, I am also not blind to the way that modern Christians will camp on a word or a phrase as a label, title, nomenclature, or a tag and RIP it from its context as though it belonged to the future when it was perfectly fine where it was!

The Gospels are often VERY misunderstood, particularly when certain "holy words" are used. For instance, how often have you heard people misuse quotations from the Gospel when the authors used the word "church"? The word "church" is a word that the original translators into English used to translate the word "ekkleesia." However, that is NOT what it means in the Gospels! It means the assembled children of Isra'el in the Land!

 

Here's the two examples:

 

 

Matthew 16:17-20

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

KJV

 

Matthew 18:15-20

15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

KJV

 

Has it even dawned upon the Christian's mind that the "church" as it is defined today wasn't even in existence then?! Here's another example of how the word "church" was used: Check out Stephen's "sermon" in Acts 7:

 

 

Acts 7:37-40

37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

39 To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt,

40 Saying unto Aaron, Make us gods to go before us: for as for this Moses, which brought us out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.

KJV

 

This is talking about the congregation of the children of Isra'el in the wilderness. And, I believe that is how Yeshua` meant it as well. In any case, be careful about pushing Yeshua`s words off into the future. He was often in the process of offering the Kingdom to Isra'el, particularly before the rulers were able to convince the people to reject Him.

You are absolutely right, pulling a verse out of its context is FAR too common place. It is one reason why we have so many different denominations today; the leaders don't understand the intent of the author, and often that is because the verse is not left in its context. I find the first seal so often out of its context, and of course misunderstood.

 

Ha ha! Surely you know that the Catholic church uses this verse as one of their anchors: Peter being the first pope!  I doubt if Peter was ever in Rome. Did you know they believe strongly that they have found Peter's burial in Jerusalem?  However, the word church there, that God will build His church upon the rock of "revelation knowledge." Here, I must disagree with you in the Author's intent. Notice, this very same Greek word is used here:

 

Act 2:47   Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. 1Cr 1:2  

Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called [to be] saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

 

In the second example, it of course is referring to the Gentile church at Corinth. The (mostly Gentile) church as contined unstopped for all these centuries, still founded on the revealed knowledge of the Word of God.

 

Lamad

 

 

You're right about the "Roman Catholic Church"; it's important in our day and age that talks so favorably about a "universal body of Christ" to remember that "Catholic" MEANS "universal!" The "Roman Catholic Church" is the "Rome-based Universal Church!" However, it is also important to remember that a "church" (Greek: ekkleesia = "called-out") is simply a "congregation" of people, a "group" of people, an "assemblage" of people. The word "church" (which itself comes from the Greek word "kuriokos" meaning "of the Lord") is simply a collective "noun" (actually, it's a participle, like our gerund), like "flock," "school," and "herd."

 

If we keep its definition simple and generic, it doesn't have to "live up to" the detailed definitions some give for the "church," and it will fit more of actual places that the word is used in Scripture. It's not a "Gentile" church nor a "Jewish" church; it's just a group of people.

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

Lamad wrote

 

Isa. 61

1: “The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me,

Because the Lord has anointed Me

To preach good tidings to the poor;

He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,

To proclaim liberty to the captives,

And the opening of the prison to those who are bound;

² To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,

And the day of vengeance of our God;

To comfort all who mourn,

 

Jesus stopped quoting at the end of the blue text, yet the quoted verse kept on. WHY did Jesus stop in the middle of a verse?

 

 

Grace and peace to you Lamad. I wasn't sure if you saw this or not, just checking, because Jesus picks up what he was to proclaim in respects to the days of vengeance just in another place.

 

For instance,

 

Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD  is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; (Shown in Luke 4:18 &21) as fulfilled***

 

So he stops in Luke, but Isaiah continues...

Isaiah 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Where Jesus closes" the book" of Isaiah cutting that saying short in Luke 4:21 (When he said, "this saying was fulfilled in their ears") he continues the proclamation of Isaiah 61:2 picking it up here in Luke 21:22

 

Luke 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things*** which are written may be fulfilled***.

 

At least it shows both of the proclamations were fulfilled in Jesus.

 

That which pertains to the days of vengeance is then written just prior to Luke 21:22. Proclaimed as Isaiah speaks of, expounded upon by Christ. Him (as we know) being  "the me" of Isaiah 61:1 who was sent to proclaim the same.

 

These days relate to Jerusalem being encompassed by armies.

 

You might have known that, Im not sure, if so disregard this, maybe it will help someone else.

 

God bless you!

[Guest shiloh357]

Matthew 10:23

When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

27 "For the Son of Man is going to come with His angels in the glory of His Father, and then He will reward each according to what he has done. 28 I assure you: There are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

I can't get myself past these verses. I've tried convincing myself it could mean the transfiguration, but frankly, I feel that is a go to when hitting a brick wall. Is there any possibility we are in the 1000 years? I know there has been no time of peace. But these verses sound so immediate.

If this is the 1,000 year millennnial reign of Christ, it is the biggest failure in human history. 

 

 

Matthew 10:23-27 is speaking to Jesus disciples in that present time, but there is in those words a sense that Jesus is looking over the heads of His disciples and looking down in time to disciples that will be facing the same persecution.  Some who are facing persecution will not see death until they see Jesus coming in power and glory.

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

Could these better apply to this verse maybe?

 

Where Jesus said,

 

Mat 16:8 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

 

Jesus said His Kingdom is not of this world

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

They beheld him being taken up

 

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Who would come in like manner as ye have seen him taken into heaven (even in respects to the clouds)

So again...

Mat 16:8 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world

And again while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Acts 7:55 But he (Stephen, as he was being stoned to death), being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Acts 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

 

Even as it says...

 

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

 

Who likewise said to them...

Luke 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Heb 1:1 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

 

And so hereafter He says,

Mat 26:64 ...Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

So when Jesus said,

 

Mat 16:8 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

 

But who also said,

 

John 18:36  My kingdom is not of this world

 

Acts 7:55 But he (Stephen, even as he was being stoned to death), being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

 

Are these seeing what he is speaking of? Or  as seeing Him as having come into his Kingdom the Father appointed Him?

 

Luke 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Just the way he words things.

 

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[Retrobyter]

Shalom, AFlameOfFire.

 

 

Could these better apply to this verse maybe?

 

Where Jesus said,

 

Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

 

Jesus said His Kingdom is not of this world

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

They beheld him being taken up

 

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Who would come in like manner as ye have seen him taken into heaven (even in respects to the clouds)

So again...

Mat 16:8 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world

And again while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Acts 7:55 But he (Stephen, as he was being stoned to death), being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Acts 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
 

Even as it says...

 

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

 

Who likewise said to them...

Luke 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Heb 1:1 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

 

And so hereafter He says,

Mat 26:64 ...Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

So when Jesus said,

 

Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

 

But who also said,

 

John 18:36  My kingdom is not of this world

 

Acts 7:55 But he (Stephen, even as he was being stoned to death), being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
 

Are these seeing what he is speaking of? Or  as seeing Him as having come into his Kingdom the Father appointed Him?

 

Luke 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Just the way he words things.
 

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Don't make the mistake that so many others do. Matthew 16:28 is fulfilled in the very next chapter (or the following account):

 

 

Matthew 16:24-17:13

24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.

7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.

8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.

9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?

11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

KJV

 

Here are the companion passages in the other synoptic Gospels:

 

Mark 9:1-13

1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.

3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.

4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

6 For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.

7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

8 And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.

9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.

10 And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.

11 And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come?

12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.

13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.

KJV

 

Luke 9:23-36

23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

25 For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?

26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.

27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.

29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.

30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:

31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.

33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.

34 While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.

35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

36 And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.

KJV

 

Thus, the reason why Yeshua` said that there were some standing there that would not see death until they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom or until they have seen the kingdom of God come with power or until they see the kingdom of God is because Peter, James and John DID see the Son of man coming in His Kingdom, the Kingdom of God, with power when Yeshua` was transfigured and they saw the vision of His Reign.

 

 

Now, regarding Matthew 26:64, ALWAYS read a verse within its context, even if just a few verses before it or after it. One must understand the context in which a thing was said:

 

 

Matthew 26:62-64

62 And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?

63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee (I COMMAND you or I ORDER you) by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One), the Son of God.

64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

KJV

 

Notice: First, he is talking to the Cohen haGadol, the High Priest, of Isra'el, who therefore must be of the tribe of Leviy (pronounced "LAY-vee," btw).

Notice: He did NOT say how soon "hereafter" they would see Him so come; so, it is wrong to assume that it would be within their natural lifetime. Just the same, if one believes in a physical resurrection, as is so often promised in the Scriptures, these two events will happen AFTER their resurrection! So, sometime in the future, they would...

 

1) See the Son of man sitting on the right hand (or "in the exalted position") of power, and

2) (See the Son of man) coming in the clouds of heaven (the sky).

 

Thus, BOTH of these events are AFTER the resurrection when Yeshua` is about to begin His reign!

 

 

Regarding Luke 22:29, ALWAYS check the surrounding context!

 

 

Luke 22:13-30

13 And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.

14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.

15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:

16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.

17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:

18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

21 But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table.

22 And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!

23 And they began to inquire among themselves, which of them it was that should do this thing.

24 And there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest.

25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.

26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.

27 For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.

28 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.

29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

KJV

 

It is yet at a FUTURE time that His Kingdom will arrive! Just as Yeshua` left this earth and rose into the sky and did not sit on His throne to reign at that time, so His disciples also did not sit on those thrones judging the twelve tribes of Isra'el at that time!

 

 

Regarding John 18:36, again, see it within its context:

 

 

John 18:28-38

28 Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover.

29 Pilate then went out unto them, and said, What accusation bring ye against this man?

30 They answered and said unto him, If he were not a malefactor, we would not have delivered him up unto thee.

31 Then said Pilate unto them, Take ye him, and judge him according to your law. The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death:

32 That the saying of Jesus might be fulfilled, which he spake, signifying what death he should die.

33 Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews?

34 Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me?

35 Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?

36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world (Greek: kosmos): if my kingdom were of this world (Greek: kosmos), then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.

KJV

 

 

NT:2889 kosmos (kos'-mos); probably from the base of NT:2865; orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by implication, the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively [morally]):

KJV - adorning, world.

 

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

 

Another important point is that the word "world" is NOT the same thing as the word "earth," neither in English nor in Greek! In Greek, the word translated "earth" is "gee," spelled gamma-eta, and pronounced "gay." However, the word translated "world" is "kosmos," spelled kappa-omicron-sigma-mu-omicron-stigma. It means the "world-SYSTEM" of government and politics! It speaks specifically and explicitly about the SYSTEM of politics and hierarchical ranks and offices of rulership. Yeshua` (Jesus) was saying that His Kingdom will NOT be based on such a system! His Kingdom would not be based on the Roman system of government nor on the Jewish system of government to which it had devolved at that point in time.

 

So, He was NOT saying that His Kingdom was not of this EARTH; He was saying that His Kingdom would not be from this world's POLITICS AND GOVERNMENT SYSTEMS! His servants DON'T FIGHT! His servants LISTEN TO THE TRUTH! They don't lie and deceive one another; they don't bicker and fight for position; they don't need to worry about their Leader, for when HE reigns, there will be NONE able to resist His rule! Whoever is least among them will be the greatest! Whoever is "greatest" will be the least!

 

 

Regarding Acts 1:9, again, ALWAYS read a verse in its context:

 

 

Acts 1:6-12

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud (Greek: nefelee) received him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven (Greek: eis ton ouranon = into the sky) as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven (Greek: eis ton ouranon = into the sky)? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven (Greek: eis ton ouranon = into the sky) shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven (Greek: eis ton ouranon = into the sky).

12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

KJV

 

The Greek phrase in verse 9 is "nefelee hupelaben auton apo toon ofthalmoon autoon." It translates directly into "a-cloud took- Him -from-below away-from their sight." So, despite what others may think or say, the cloud hid Him from their view, from their field of vision! They watched Him rise into the sky until He was above the dew point that day.

 

Furthermore, the Greek word "ouranos" means "the sky":

 

 

Matthew 16:1-4

1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven (Greek: ouranos).

2 He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky (Greek: ouranos) is red.

3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky (Greek: ouranos) is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky (Greek: ouranos); but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

KJV

 

Now, think for a moment: What if all you knew was Greek? If you saw the same word in verse 1 that you saw in verses 2 and 3, would you think there was any difference? Of course not! So, if verses 2 and 3 are talking about the WEATHER, should verse 1 be thought to be something other than the sky?!

 

 

Regarding Acts 7:55-56, let's again look at the surrounding context:

 

 

Acts 7:48-60

48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,

49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

50 Hath not my hand made all these things?

51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven (Greek: eis ton ouranon = into the sky), and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened (Greek: theooroo tous ouranous dieevoigmenous = I-see the skies opening-up-all-the-way-through), and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,

58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.

59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

KJV

 

There's no mention AT ALL of Him sitting on a throne OR reigning, in this passage! He is merely STANDING (not sitting) in the place of honor beside Elohiym!

 

 

Finally, let's look at the book to the Hebrews:

 

 

Hebrews 1:1-2:10

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand (the place of honor) of the Majesty on high;

4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time,

 

Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? (Psalm 2:7)

 

And again,

 

I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? (2 Samuel 7:14; 1 Chronicles 22:10; 28:6; Psalm 89:26-27)

 

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith,

 

And let all the angels of God worship him. (Psalm 97:7)

 

7 And of the angels he saith,

 

Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. (Psalm 104:4)

 

8 But unto the Son he saith,

 

Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. (Psalm 45:6-7)

 

10 And, Thou, Lord, 

 

in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail. (Psalm 102:25-27)

 

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time,

 

Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? (Psalm 110:1)

 

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

2:1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.

2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;

3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.

6 But one in a certain place testified, saying,

 

What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?

7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. (Psalm 8:4-6)

 

For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned (Greek: estefanoomenon = adorned with an honorary victor's wreath) with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

KJV

 

Thus, He is NOT YET CROWNED AS KING (unless you want to count the stefanos or "crown" or "victor's wreath" of thorns) nor has He or His Kingdom arrived!

 

 

Finally, regarding Hebrews 8:1 - yep, you guessed it - let's look at the context:

 

Hebrews 7:23-8:3

23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:

24 But this man (Yeshua`), because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son (an high priest), who is consecrated for evermore.

8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand (a position of honor) of the throne of the Majesty (God, the Father) in the heavens (the skies);

2 A minister (servant) of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man (Yeshua`) have somewhat also to offer.

KJV

 

Thus, this passage is more talking about Yeshua` as the great High Priest after the order of Malkhiy-Tsedeq (Melchizedek) than it is about Him being King!

[RustyAngeL]

No Jesus has not returned.  When He comes it will be to take the church home with Him.     1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, Those who  have not accepted Him as their savior will be left behind to face the tribulation. That will last seven years.   Then He will come again and this time He will touch ground on the Mount if Olives and bring back His church with Him. He will defeat Satan, and Satan will be chained in Hell for that thousand years. And there will be a thousand year reign of peace where we will rule with Him on earth.