Behold, I come like a thief!

[Littlelambseativy]

Twice. Once for His bride and once with the bride to defeat Satan and the armies of earth that come against Israel and gather the tribulation saints to Himself. The second time Jesus comes on a white horse with the bride and the armies of heaven.

[wingnut-]

The many other second or third comings? The pre-wrath rapture theory. Go something like this? The church go through the first half and a significant part of the second half of the 70^th week. Threre are 3 distinct and identifiable periods, "the beginning of sorrows", the Great Tribulation, and the Day of the Lord. The second coming and rapture are one event lasting about 1^1/2 years with 4 comings of Christ within the confines of that one second coming. At the first of these 4 comings Christ returns to take His people to heaven. At the 2^nd, which ends the 70^th week, He will descend to earth bringing salvation to Israel, and will remain on earth for 6 days before returning to Heaven. A 3 day period for reclaiming the earth by the Lord will occur when the bowl judgments are poured out following the end of the 70^th week. The third of the 4 comings takes place after the 30 day period, when Christ returns with His angels to defeat the Antichrist at Armageddon. This victory will be followed by a 45 day period, after which Christ will return to Heaven. At the 4^th coming Christ will return to the earth with his bride to rule the world during the millennial kingdom. That is a unique position.

I believe He is only coming one more time, scripture only speaks of a second coming. This is where Jesus places it occurring.

Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the distress of those days 'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'

30 "At that time the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 "Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door.

Now compare this to this

Revelation 6:12 I watched as He opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.

It would appear that these late happenings are somewhat mingled given this comparison

Revelation 6:14 The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

Revelation 16:20 Every island fled away and the mountains could not be found. ( this is following the seventh bowl)

And this one I found very interesting, this first passage is also from the seventh bowl, and the second passage is from the two witnesses.

Revelation 16:18 Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since man has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake. 19 The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed.

Revelation 11:12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.

13 At that very hour there was a severe earthquake and a tenth of the city collapsed.

And lastly this comparison from the seventh bowl and the seventh trumpet.

Revelation 16:21 From the sky huge hailstones of about a hundred pounds each fell upon men.

Revelation 11:19 Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and within His temple was seen the ark of His covenant. And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and a great hailstorm.

So I am thinking when It says in Revelation 16:15 "Behold, I come like a thief!" that He means it. Of course we will keep wondering what exactly Daniel was ordered to seal up, or even what the seven thunders told John in chapter 10 that he was ordered not to write down. But we have this bit from the angel with the little scroll....

Revelation 10:6 "There will be no more delay! 7 But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as He announced to His servants the prophets."

[Littlelambseativy]

True to a point. In the rapture His feet do not touch the earth - He meets the bride in the air. In the 2nd coming He comes to do battle with Satan and the armies of the earth who want to defeat Israel and the tribulation saints. So technically there is only 1 other coming where He is actually on the earth, the rapture is not a 2 nd coming.

[OneLight]

When Christ calls us to be with Him is not a "coming". He only comes once. Looking outside any doctrine, is not Jesus always with us in Spirit? Would this not be the same as being gathered together in the clouds, where the only difference is that He calls us to be with Him?

The problem always arises when we try to place the timing of this event and stand firmly on or beliefs. It is one thing to believe what we do, and another to try to convince others when scripture is silent on the timing. The best we could ever do is to gather scripture that is vague and see if it fits our theology. The only time we read an exact placement is at the last trump(et). The rest are signs and seasons.

[back2thebible]

True to a point. In the rapture His feet do not touch the earth - He meets the bride in the air. In the 2nd coming He comes to do battle with Satan and the armies of the earth who want to defeat Israel and the tribulation saints. So technically there is only 1 other coming where He is actually on the earth, the rapture is not a 2 nd coming.

can you tell me why in Mathew 24 when Jesus is giving His sequence of events to His disciples that He doesn't tell them about the secret rapture, and only gives them the final gathering up of tribulation saints

[Montana Marv]

Rev 16:13-16 is the preping for the Battle of Armageddon. When these armies are ready, Christ will suddenly appear (suddenly) over them to do battle over/above the Valley of Megiddo. The winepress of God. v 13 starts with Then..... With 16:15 - Behold, I come like a thief; blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes with him, so that he may not go naked, and be shamfully exposed .Then, they gathered the kings to do battle....

Look at the (and keeps his clothes with him) It appears the most people will be lightly clad or maybe naked; like at the beach on a summer afternoon. So keep your clothes with you. One needs to go back to Rev 16:8,9 People were seared by intense heat "heat index" is very very high. People will be lightly clad (dressed) to try to stay cool. Even maybe to recover from second degree burns. Scripture is saying for people not to be naked at the Second Coming

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

True to a point. In the rapture His feet do not touch the earth - He meets the bride in the air. In the 2nd coming He comes to do battle with Satan and the armies of the earth who want to defeat Israel and the tribulation saints. So technically there is only 1 other coming where He is actually on the earth, the rapture is not a 2 nd coming.

can you tell me why in Mathew 24 when Jesus is giving His sequence of events to His disciples that He doesn't tell them about the secret rapture, and only gives them the final gathering up of tribulation saints

Maybe because only God the Father know its time. Not so with the Second Coming which Matt 24 is working up to. Not the Rapture. For only God the Father knows this date.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[wingnut-]

Rev 16:13-16 is the preping for the Battle of Armageddon. When these armies are ready, Christ will suddenly appear (suddenly) over them to do battle over/above the Valley of Megiddo. The winepress of God. v 13 starts with Then..... With 16:15 - Behold, I come like a thief; blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes with him, so that he may not go naked, and be shamfully exposed .Then, they gathered the kings to do battle....

Look at the (and keeps his clothes with him) It appears the most people will be lightly clad or maybe naked; like at the beach on a summer afternoon. So keep your clothes with you. One needs to go back to Rev 16:8,9 People were seared by intense heat "heat index" is very very high. People will be lightly clad (dressed) to try to stay cool. Even maybe to recover from second degree burns. Scripture is saying for people not to be naked at the Second Coming

In Christ

Montana Marv

That's interesting, so you are saying the reference to the clothes is physical? I could see it having a dual meaning that way given the fourth bowl, but I've always understood this as a spiritual reference. Especially considering that at this time the sun will be darkened, though that doesn't mean it can't still be exceedingly hot.

[Guest]

The many other second or third comings? The pre-wrath rapture theory. Go something like this? The church go through the first half and a significant part of the second half of the 70^th week. Threre are 3 distinct and identifiable periods, "the beginning of sorrows", the Great Tribulation, and the Day of the Lord. The second coming and rapture are one event lasting about 1^1/2 years with 4 comings of Christ within the confines of that one second coming. At the first of these 4 comings Christ returns to take His people to heaven. At the 2^nd, which ends the 70^th week, He will descend to earth bringing salvation to Israel, and will remain on earth for 6 days before returning to Heaven. A 3 day period for reclaiming the earth by the Lord will occur when the bowl judgments are poured out following the end of the 70^th week. The third of the 4 comings takes place after the 30 day period, when Christ returns with His angels to defeat the Antichrist at Armageddon. This victory will be followed by a 45 day period, after which Christ will return to Heaven. At the 4^th coming Christ will return to the earth with his bride to rule the world during the millennial kingdom. That is a unique position.

This is not my position. What I am describing is the little held position where the Lord comes 4 times. As you undoubtly know already, I'm a pre-trib rature guy, with only 2 returns, 1 where we meet the Lord in the air and the other when the Lord touches done on the Mount to establish His Millennal Kingdom.

[wingnut-]

Maybe because only God the Father know its time. Not so with the Second Coming which Matt 24 is working up to. Not the Rapture. For only God the Father knows this date.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Hey Marv, I'm curious how you arrive at this conclusion, the only reference to this is in regards to the Second Coming.

Matthew 24:36 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man."

Jumping down to verse 39 we see this again.

Matthew 24:39 .....That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

42 Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect Him.