Born of Water and Spirit by Jack Kelly

[enoob57]

Born Of Water And The Spirit

Q. I have a question on John 3:5, Jesus was talking about being born of water and of the Spirit. In my Tuesday night Bible study class a question came up asking what this meant. Someone said that Jesus was talking about water baptism but I don’t see that here. Am I way off? What was Jesus really saying in John 3:5?

A. Let’s put John 3:5 -6 together to get a clearer picture of what Jesus was saying:

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

Being born of water speaks of our first birth. It’s the natural one where we emerge from our birth waters, the amniotic fluid in which we’ve spent the previous nine months. It’s flesh (our mom) giving birth to flesh (us), when we become the child of our earthly parents.

Being born of the Spirit is the 2nd birth, the supernatural one, where our spirit is knit with God’s. It’s when we are born again, when Spirit gives birth to spirit, and we become a child of God (John 1:12-13).

Good morning , Jesus said , the words i speak are Spirit , everything that has to do with our salvation is Spirit , if he speaks about water he does not refer to natural water , but spiritual water , Jesus said John 15 :3 already you are clean through the word i have spoken to you: one could draw the conclusion that the water Jesus refers to is the Word : we are born again when we declare our faith in him , we die since he died , we are raised again since he was raised ,that is to say we are baptised into his death through the word , not by the putting away of the filth of the flesh as Peter puts it "the word he spoke was spirit and life" Water baptism is an ever ongoing debate , the origin of this cannot be the word , because out of a fountain we cannot have both good water and bad water at the same time , if I can use the word of God to support a claim and someone else use the same word to support his claim , it is our understanding of the bible text that is incomplete ,if water baptism had been necessary for our salvation it would have been made perfectly clear in the bible , The salvation is Gods own , it would not have been a salvation if God had left any part of it to humans , we cannot even agree how it should be performed ,sprinkling , poring , or total immersion , Landers

The first part of Jesus blood and water shows that 1John 5:8 the Water, Blood and spirit agree in 1. The blood is shed for us, the water to show baptism in his name, his spirit poured into us like the day of Pentecost. Without shedding of Jesus blood, there's no remission (Heb. 9:22).

Jesus does tell his disciples they're clean by his word in John 15:3. Jesus explains the whole time Jesus explains he's the branch and how the branch bears fruit. How are they clean by his word? We have to read Line upon Line (Isaiah 28:9-13).

If you keep reading in the same chapter Jesus explains how they're clean. They abide in his Word. Now let's read.

John 15:10

If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.

To take a verse and cancel out Jesus commands is wrong. They're washed because they followed his word spiritually speaking.

I could take Jesus words on the cross and say it is finished and tell you that you don't have to repent or even read his word. Which you would agree that's wrong for me to do. Baptism is necessary, Ananias told Paul to wash away his sins baptism acts 22:16

Acts 22:16

And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

This is the same as your parent telling you the words after playing in the dirt, go take a shower and wash away the dirt.

Therefore you're saying Ananias is wrong for baptizing Paul by your statement.

Baptism is necessary. Peter explains this in Acts 2:38

Acts 2:38

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Baptism is done by fully submerged in the water. There's no example of sprinkle and there's no baptism done in father, son & HG.

Just Jesus name only.

that's right there is no example of how water baptism is to be carried out ,you need to understand that baptism is spiritual , it is the Spirit working in you both death and life ,for a believer to be baptised , God must call him first ,when you with your mouth declare the Son of God to be your saviour you are baptised through the holy Spirit , John the baptist said , i baptise with water but there is one coming after me who will baptise with the holy Spirit and fire ,, the thief on the cross was nowhere near any water baptism ,water baptism is a remnant from the old testament time when they needed to ritually purify themselves for all manner of reasons ,, Landers

LoL. I like how you changed my words. I'll repeat, there is no example of baptism stating the word father, son, HG in the bible. Now to say there's no example of baptism done carried out in the bible is false. Are you saying Paul was not baptized? Are you saying Philip did not baptize the Eunuch? Are you saying Cornelius the First Gentile was not baptized?

You've also said the thief on the Cross was not baptized. I disagree with you on that. Scripture tells us other wise.

Praise the Lord! I just want to point something out here about thief on the cross. People say that he was not baptize. I beg to differ. (Luke 23:39-43) U have 2 different personalities here happening. 1 knew about the Kingdom and the other didn't. The word kingdom is very important here. (Matt. 3:5-6, Mark 1:5) Records that all around Region was baptized and the Kingdom of Heaven was preached by John the Bapt. Question, how would the thief know about the kingdom if not for John?

Luke 1:76-77 records Zachariah (Johns father) stating that John Baptist will give knowledge of salvation. Which is baptism unto repentance.

You've also said when you call Jesus name you receive the Holy Ghost. Please show scripture stating this. Also how does one know they receive the Holy Ghost?

simply Baptism occurs after belief in Christ

Ac 19:4-7

4 Then Paul said, "John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they

should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus."

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid

hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. 7 Now

the men were about twelve in all.

NKJV

Mk 16:16

16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

NKJV

So the whole of your point is made mute by the order set forth by God.... believe then baptized!

Love, Steven

[Saint Stev:-0]

If there is something that we must do to earn or fulfill our salvation then everything that Jesus did on the cross is of no effect - insufficient not complete. God said that Salvation is a gift, free. If it is free why do we need to do anything to complete it? is what Jesus did on the cross not sufficient? Jesus said it was Done, or do we have to work out our own salvation? I will take the "free gift of Salvation" nothing added nothing subtracted.

I wonder why Jesus never baptized anyone with water only the Holy Spirit? Do you suppose that is of importance?

I agree. We did nothing to earn salvation. Jesus explain how we receive the Gift. The Gift is a 2 party system. First party is the giver and second is receiver. Example: When you open a checking account and the banker says here's this free toaster as our gift to you. You have the option to say, "No, that's OK I have 1 at home already."

We have to works of faith. Just like James said. Show me your faith without works and I'll show you my faith by my works. James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Jesus is God and he works through man. That's why he said to John for him to baptize him.

If you take the gift then go through the process of Acts 2:38 my friend like Peter commanded you to . ; )

Acts 2:38

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[Guest man]

If there is something that we must do to earn or fulfill our salvation then everything that Jesus did on the cross is of no effect - insufficient not complete. God said that Salvation is a gift, free. If it is free why do we need to do anything to complete it? is what Jesus did on the cross not sufficient? Jesus said it was Done, or do we have to work out our own salvation? I will take the "free gift of Salvation" nothing added nothing subtracted.

I wonder why Jesus never baptized anyone with water only the Holy Spirit? Do you suppose that is of importance?

Philippians 2

¹² Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

[Saint Stev:-0]

Born Of Water And The Spirit

Q. I have a question on John 3:5, Jesus was talking about being born of water and of the Spirit. In my Tuesday night Bible study class a question came up asking what this meant. Someone said that Jesus was talking about water baptism but I don’t see that here. Am I way off? What was Jesus really saying in John 3:5?

A. Let’s put John 3:5 -6 together to get a clearer picture of what Jesus was saying:

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

Being born of water speaks of our first birth. It’s the natural one where we emerge from our birth waters, the amniotic fluid in which we’ve spent the previous nine months. It’s flesh (our mom) giving birth to flesh (us), when we become the child of our earthly parents.

Being born of the Spirit is the 2nd birth, the supernatural one, where our spirit is knit with God’s. It’s when we are born again, when Spirit gives birth to spirit, and we become a child of God (John 1:12-13).

Good morning , Jesus said , the words i speak are Spirit , everything that has to do with our salvation is Spirit , if he speaks about water he does not refer to natural water , but spiritual water , Jesus said John 15 :3 already you are clean through the word i have spoken to you: one could draw the conclusion that the water Jesus refers to is the Word : we are born again when we declare our faith in him , we die since he died , we are raised again since he was raised ,that is to say we are baptised into his death through the word , not by the putting away of the filth of the flesh as Peter puts it "the word he spoke was spirit and life" Water baptism is an ever ongoing debate , the origin of this cannot be the word , because out of a fountain we cannot have both good water and bad water at the same time , if I can use the word of God to support a claim and someone else use the same word to support his claim , it is our understanding of the bible text that is incomplete ,if water baptism had been necessary for our salvation it would have been made perfectly clear in the bible , The salvation is Gods own , it would not have been a salvation if God had left any part of it to humans , we cannot even agree how it should be performed ,sprinkling , poring , or total immersion , Landers

The first part of Jesus blood and water shows that 1John 5:8 the Water, Blood and spirit agree in 1. The blood is shed for us, the water to show baptism in his name, his spirit poured into us like the day of Pentecost. Without shedding of Jesus blood, there's no remission (Heb. 9:22).

Jesus does tell his disciples they're clean by his word in John 15:3. Jesus explains the whole time Jesus explains he's the branch and how the branch bears fruit. How are they clean by his word? We have to read Line upon Line (Isaiah 28:9-13).

If you keep reading in the same chapter Jesus explains how they're clean. They abide in his Word. Now let's read.

John 15:10

If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.

To take a verse and cancel out Jesus commands is wrong. They're washed because they followed his word spiritually speaking.

I could take Jesus words on the cross and say it is finished and tell you that you don't have to repent or even read his word. Which you would agree that's wrong for me to do. Baptism is necessary, Ananias told Paul to wash away his sins baptism acts 22:16

Acts 22:16

And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

This is the same as your parent telling you the words after playing in the dirt, go take a shower and wash away the dirt.

Therefore you're saying Ananias is wrong for baptizing Paul by your statement.

Baptism is necessary. Peter explains this in Acts 2:38

Acts 2:38

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Baptism is done by fully submerged in the water. There's no example of sprinkle and there's no baptism done in father, son & HG.

Just Jesus name only.

that's right there is no example of how water baptism is to be carried out ,you need to understand that baptism is spiritual , it is the Spirit working in you both death and life ,for a believer to be baptised , God must call him first ,when you with your mouth declare the Son of God to be your saviour you are baptised through the holy Spirit , John the baptist said , i baptise with water but there is one coming after me who will baptise with the holy Spirit and fire ,, the thief on the cross was nowhere near any water baptism ,water baptism is a remnant from the old testament time when they needed to ritually purify themselves for all manner of reasons ,, Landers

LoL. I like how you changed my words. I'll repeat, there is no example of baptism stating the word father, son, HG in the bible. Now to say there's no example of baptism done carried out in the bible is false. Are you saying Paul was not baptized? Are you saying Philip did not baptize the Eunuch? Are you saying Cornelius the First Gentile was not baptized?

You've also said the thief on the Cross was not baptized. I disagree with you on that. Scripture tells us other wise.

Praise the Lord! I just want to point something out here about thief on the cross. People say that he was not baptize. I beg to differ. (Luke 23:39-43) U have 2 different personalities here happening. 1 knew about the Kingdom and the other didn't. The word kingdom is very important here. (Matt. 3:5-6, Mark 1:5) Records that all around Region was baptized and the Kingdom of Heaven was preached by John the Bapt. Question, how would the thief know about the kingdom if not for John?

Luke 1:76-77 records Zachariah (Johns father) stating that John Baptist will give knowledge of salvation. Which is baptism unto repentance.

You've also said when you call Jesus name you receive the Holy Ghost. Please show scripture stating this. Also how does one know they receive the Holy Ghost?

simply Baptism occurs after belief in Christ

Ac 19:4-7

4 Then Paul said, "John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they

should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus."

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid

hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. 7 Now

the men were about twelve in all.

NKJV

Mk 16:16

16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

NKJV

So the whole of your point is made mute by the order set forth by God.... believe then baptized!

Love, Steven

I agree 1 must believe and be baptized. If you never get baptized, did you really believe?

James asked this same question about Abraham

James 2:21-24

g James Version (KJV)

²¹ Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

²² Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

²³ And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

²⁴ Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

[Guest shiloh357]

If there is something that we must do to earn or fulfill our salvation then everything that Jesus did on the cross is of no effect - insufficient not complete. God said that Salvation is a gift, free. If it is free why do we need to do anything to complete it? is what Jesus did on the cross not sufficient? Jesus said it was Done, or do we have to work out our own salvation? I will take the "free gift of Salvation" nothing added nothing subtracted.

I wonder why Jesus never baptized anyone with water only the Holy Spirit? Do you suppose that is of importance?

Philippians 2

¹² Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

"Work out" doesn't mean "work for." It means to put on display. It means that we should be a living testimony of our faith in Christ. There should be an outworking of our faith for others to see.

[Guest shiloh357]

Born Of Water And The Spirit

Q. I have a question on John 3:5, Jesus was talking about being born of water and of the Spirit. In my Tuesday night Bible study class a question came up asking what this meant. Someone said that Jesus was talking about water baptism but I don’t see that here. Am I way off? What was Jesus really saying in John 3:5?

A. Let’s put John 3:5 -6 together to get a clearer picture of what Jesus was saying:

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

Being born of water speaks of our first birth. It’s the natural one where we emerge from our birth waters, the amniotic fluid in which we’ve spent the previous nine months. It’s flesh (our mom) giving birth to flesh (us), when we become the child of our earthly parents.

Being born of the Spirit is the 2nd birth, the supernatural one, where our spirit is knit with God’s. It’s when we are born again, when Spirit gives birth to spirit, and we become a child of God (John 1:12-13).

Good morning , Jesus said , the words i speak are Spirit , everything that has to do with our salvation is Spirit , if he speaks about water he does not refer to natural water , but spiritual water , Jesus said John 15 :3 already you are clean through the word i have spoken to you: one could draw the conclusion that the water Jesus refers to is the Word : we are born again when we declare our faith in him , we die since he died , we are raised again since he was raised ,that is to say we are baptised into his death through the word , not by the putting away of the filth of the flesh as Peter puts it "the word he spoke was spirit and life" Water baptism is an ever ongoing debate , the origin of this cannot be the word , because out of a fountain we cannot have both good water and bad water at the same time , if I can use the word of God to support a claim and someone else use the same word to support his claim , it is our understanding of the bible text that is incomplete ,if water baptism had been necessary for our salvation it would have been made perfectly clear in the bible , The salvation is Gods own , it would not have been a salvation if God had left any part of it to humans , we cannot even agree how it should be performed ,sprinkling , poring , or total immersion , Landers

The first part of Jesus blood and water shows that 1John 5:8 the Water, Blood and spirit agree in 1. The blood is shed for us, the water to show baptism in his name, his spirit poured into us like the day of Pentecost. Without shedding of Jesus blood, there's no remission (Heb. 9:22).

Jesus does tell his disciples they're clean by his word in John 15:3. Jesus explains the whole time Jesus explains he's the branch and how the branch bears fruit. How are they clean by his word? We have to read Line upon Line (Isaiah 28:9-13).

If you keep reading in the same chapter Jesus explains how they're clean. They abide in his Word. Now let's read.

John 15:10

If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.

To take a verse and cancel out Jesus commands is wrong. They're washed because they followed his word spiritually speaking.

I could take Jesus words on the cross and say it is finished and tell you that you don't have to repent or even read his word. Which you would agree that's wrong for me to do. Baptism is necessary, Ananias told Paul to wash away his sins baptism acts 22:16

Acts 22:16

And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

This is the same as your parent telling you the words after playing in the dirt, go take a shower and wash away the dirt.

Therefore you're saying Ananias is wrong for baptizing Paul by your statement.

Baptism is necessary. Peter explains this in Acts 2:38

Acts 2:38

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Baptism is done by fully submerged in the water. There's no example of sprinkle and there's no baptism done in father, son & HG.

Just Jesus name only.

that's right there is no example of how water baptism is to be carried out ,you need to understand that baptism is spiritual , it is the Spirit working in you both death and life ,for a believer to be baptised , God must call him first ,when you with your mouth declare the Son of God to be your saviour you are baptised through the holy Spirit , John the baptist said , i baptise with water but there is one coming after me who will baptise with the holy Spirit and fire ,, the thief on the cross was nowhere near any water baptism ,water baptism is a remnant from the old testament time when they needed to ritually purify themselves for all manner of reasons ,, Landers

LoL. I like how you changed my words. I'll repeat, there is no example of baptism stating the word father, son, HG in the bible. Now to say there's no example of baptism done carried out in the bible is false. Are you saying Paul was not baptized? Are you saying Philip did not baptize the Eunuch? Are you saying Cornelius the First Gentile was not baptized?

You've also said the thief on the Cross was not baptized. I disagree with you on that. Scripture tells us other wise.

Praise the Lord! I just want to point something out here about thief on the cross. People say that he was not baptize. I beg to differ. (Luke 23:39-43) U have 2 different personalities here happening. 1 knew about the Kingdom and the other didn't. The word kingdom is very important here. (Matt. 3:5-6, Mark 1:5) Records that all around Region was baptized and the Kingdom of Heaven was preached by John the Bapt. Question, how would the thief know about the kingdom if not for John?

Luke 1:76-77 records Zachariah (Johns father) stating that John Baptist will give knowledge of salvation. Which is baptism unto repentance.

You've also said when you call Jesus name you receive the Holy Ghost. Please show scripture stating this. Also how does one know they receive the Holy Ghost?

simply Baptism occurs after belief in Christ

Ac 19:4-7

4 Then Paul said, "John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they

should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus."

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid

hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. 7 Now

the men were about twelve in all.

NKJV

Mk 16:16

16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

NKJV

So the whole of your point is made mute by the order set forth by God.... believe then baptized!

Love, Steven

I agree 1 must believe and be baptized. If you never get baptized, did you really believe?

James asked this same question about Abraham

James 2:21-24

g James Version (KJV)

²¹ Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

²² Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

²³ And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

²⁴ Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Baptism is necessary, but it is not necessary for salvation. I would agree that a person who refuses to be baptized out of stubborn rebellion as a problem. But there are people with genuine phobias of water and since baptism is a public profession of faith, there are people who are irrationally terrified of being in front of people. Refusing to be baptized is not always a rebellion issue. And it doesn't necessarily mean they did not truly trust in Jesus.

James is talking about our profession being justifed by our works. Abraham was justified by faith before God before Isaac was born. His faith and belief in God was justified when He placed Isaac on the atlar. James is saying that our profession of faith is justified or "affirmed" by corresponding action. It is not a reference to being justified before God in salvific terms. That justificaion is by faith and comes only through the finished work of Jesus on the cross.

[Saint Stev:-0]

I don't see a list of excuses in the bible to not follow God's command. Sorry.

Anyhow Paul talked about Faith with works also. Here's the scriptures to show.

Ahh.. Abraham not justified by works but by faith only.

Romans 4

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

I agree with this scripture. The problem with doctrines doctrines is they ignore verse 1 of Romans 4.

Romans 4:1

1 WHAT shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

Notice Paul starts out as pertaining to the flesh. Paul is referring to works according to flesh. He is not against works of faith.

Here's where your doctrine is incorrect.

Read Romans 4:12.

Romans 4:12

12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

Paul explains that we are to walk on the steps of faith. Walking in the steps is an action meaning its a work.

Therefore Abraham had works of faith. He did not have works of the flesh.

[Guest man]

If there is something that we must do to earn or fulfill our salvation then everything that Jesus did on the cross is of no effect - insufficient not complete. God said that Salvation is a gift, free. If it is free why do we need to do anything to complete it? is what Jesus did on the cross not sufficient? Jesus said it was Done, or do we have to work out our own salvation? I will take the "free gift of Salvation" nothing added nothing subtracted.

I wonder why Jesus never baptized anyone with water only the Holy Spirit? Do you suppose that is of importance?

Philippians 2

¹² Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

"Work out" doesn't mean "work for."

Never said it did.

It means to put on display. It means that we should be a living testimony of our faith in Christ. There should be an outworking of our faith for others to see.

That's called works.

[Guest shiloh357]

I don't see a list of excuses in the bible to not follow God's command. Sorry.

I am not making excuses for them. I am simply saying that you cannot lump everyone together as if every person who isn't baptized is because they don't truly believe.

Anyhow Paul talked about Faith with works also. Here's the scriptures to show.

I didn't say Paul didn't talk about works. My point is that justification by faith before God doesn't include works.

Notice Paul starts out as pertaining to the flesh. Paul is referring to works according to flesh. He is not against works of faith.

Here's where your doctrine is incorrect.

I didn't say anything against works of faith. Works of faith are the fruit of salvation, not the means of obtaining it.

Romans 4:12

12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

Paul explains that we are to walk on the steps of faith. Walking in the steps is an action meaning its a work.

Therefore Abraham had works of faith. He did not have works of the flesh.

How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

(Rom 4:10-12)

Abraham was justified by faith alone 25 years before circumcision. Abraham was not justifed before God by works at all, but solely on faith.

[Guest shiloh357]

If there is something that we must do to earn or fulfill our salvation then everything that Jesus did on the cross is of no effect - insufficient not complete. God said that Salvation is a gift, free. If it is free why do we need to do anything to complete it? is what Jesus did on the cross not sufficient? Jesus said it was Done, or do we have to work out our own salvation? I will take the "free gift of Salvation" nothing added nothing subtracted.

I wonder why Jesus never baptized anyone with water only the Holy Spirit? Do you suppose that is of importance?

Philippians 2

¹² Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

"Work out" doesn't mean "work for."

Never said it did.

It means to put on display. It means that we should be a living testimony of our faith in Christ. There should be an outworking of our faith for others to see.

That's called works.

Of course it is. Simply pointing out that the works mentioned occur AFTER salvation and are not a means of salvatoin.