For Those Who Fear They've Committed The Unpardonable Sin

[Guest Butero]

I think Tinky is right in that if someone is worried that they committed the unforgivable sin, then they didn't. It reminds me of what we used to say about people who are truly crazy. They never think they are crazy. So the old rule of thumb was if you think you're insane, you're not. The same holds true for this sin. If you worry you've committed it you haven't, because you wouldn't be worried about it if you did.

I believe we are all in agreement on this point?

[Guest shiloh357]

The unpardonable sin is to blaspheme or speak a word against the Holy Spirit. Anyone could theoretically open their mouth and speak a word against the Holy Spirit. That is just common sense.

How can a person indwelt by the Holy Spirit, made alive by the Holy Spirit blaspheme the Holy Spirit? The unpardonable sin is NOT speaking a word against the Holy Spirit. The unpardonable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Blasphemy is slander. To blaspheme the Holy Spirit is to slander Him. In the ONLY biblical context for that sin it was unbelievers who blasphemed the Holy Spirit. Your position leaves the realm of Scripture and enters the realm of what you call "common sense." The problem is that the position you offer is not according to Scripture.

There is NO warning given to the churches in any epistle. If this were something Christians were in danger of committing, don't you think there would be no shortage of warnings all over the NT? It would be one of the most important warnings to the Christians that could be made.

We are taught that salvation comes about because of an act we did in going to the alter and praying a sinner's prayer, but God's Word says we are saved if we are among the chosen, who were predestined to be saved.

The Bible NEVER uses predestination in terms of who is or is not chosen to be saved. The verses on Predestination refer to what God has predestined for Christians after they have been saved.

I do not agree that when you accept Jesus, all your present and future sins are automatically under the blood covering.

The only reason I can appropriate forgiveness today is that all of my sins are covered under the blood of Jesus. The work of the blood is to cover all sin, past, present and future. That doesn't mean I am automatically forgiven for the sins I commit. I must still appropriate forgiveness. But if the sins I commit in the future were not paid for on the cross, then I cannot be forgiven for them. I cannot appropriate the power of the blood of Jesus to forgive sins that His blood doesn't cover.

"Covered" by the blood is not scriptural...we have been cleansed from our sins. Saying "covered" means the sins are still there ...just covered up.

Yes, I understand that . In terms of our relation to the blood, it cleanses us from our sins. The point I am making is that there are no sins that exist out of the reach of the blood of Jesus. There are no sins that haven't been paid for. They are "covered" in the sense that the blood of Jesus has paid the penalty for them all, past present and future. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Guest shiloh357]

The unpardonable sin is to blaspheme or speak a word against the Holy Spirit. Anyone could theoretically open their mouth and speak a word against the Holy Spirit. That is just common sense.

How can a person indwelt by the Holy Spirit, made alive by the Holy Spirit blaspheme the Holy Spirit? The unpardonable sin is NOT speaking a word against the Holy Spirit. The unpardonable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Blasphemy is slander. To blaspheme the Holy Spirit is to slander Him. In the ONLY biblical context for that sin it was unbelievers who blasphemed the Holy Spirit. Your position leaves the realm of Scripture and enters the realm of what you call "common sense." The problem is that the position you offer is not according to Scripture.

There is NO warning given to the churches in any epistle. If this were something Christians were in danger of committing, don't you think there would be no shortage of warnings all over the NT? It would be one of the most important warnings to the Christians that could be made.

We are taught that salvation comes about because of an act we did in going to the alter and praying a sinner's prayer, but God's Word says we are saved if we are among the chosen, who were predestined to be saved.

The Bible NEVER uses predestination in terms of who is or is not chosen to be saved. The verses on Predestination refer to what God has predestined for Christians after they have been saved.

I do not agree that when you accept Jesus, all your present and future sins are automatically under the blood covering.

The only reason I can appropriate forgiveness today is that all of my sins are covered under the blood of Jesus. The work of the blood is to cover all sin, past, present and future. That doesn't mean I am automatically forgiven for the sins I commit. I must still appropriate forgiveness. But if the sins I commit in the future were not paid for on the cross, then I cannot be forgiven for them. I cannot appropriate the power of the blood of Jesus to forgive sins that His blood doesn't cover.

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. Matthew 12:31,32

You are mistaken on this point Shiloh. Anyone is capable of speaking a word against the Holy Ghost. In addition, the only way a person can be saved is for the Father to reveal the Son to them, as he did to the Apostle Peter.

The problem Butero is that you are ignoring the context. The context concerns only to unbelievers. The use of the word "blasphemy" clearly indicates that it was intentional. Blasphemy isn't done on accident. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is a sin rooted in unbelief. They knew Jesus was operating by the power of the Holy Spirit and they deliberately sought to discredit Him by claiming that He was casting out demons by the power of the prince of demons. So, speaking agaisnt the Holy Spirit is defined by the context.

It is not simply some generic criticism of the Holy Spirit. Charismatics have long used a very hyper-literal interpretation of this passage to silence anyone who questions the legitmacy and biblical validity of some of their questionable practices, particularly in the Word of Faith movement. Any serious attempt to ascertain the authenticity of their supernatural activities is met with a scathing threat that to challenge their practices, teachings, etc. is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. The passage and others in the Gospels about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit have been used as a weapon by the Word of Faith movement to intimidate others from challenging them.

Furthermore, it is important to understand why this is an unpardonable sin. It is NOT unpardonable because it is so heinous and awful that God simply can't bring Himself to forgive it. To argue that it is beyond the power of God forgive it, opens up a pandora's box of theological problems, not the least of which is that man is at least in one area, more powerful to God. When we get to the point when we think we have committed a sin that has overpowered God's ability or willingness to forgive, we have entered into the realm of pride and have directly challenged God's integrity.

"The sin against the Holy Spirit unpardonable because of its own nature: It consists in the rejection of way of salvation by Christ, in opposition to the fullest evidence and the only evidence that shall be given (Heb. 2: 3)

The sin against the Holy Spirit consists in continual impenitence and unbelief. It is not an act, but habit. It is the calm, determined, and persevering rejection of Jesus Christ as the Savior of man, in opposition t all the testimony of His word and Spirit. Consequently, its nature is incapable of forgiveness. No one who is afraid of having committed this sin has done so; for its very nature is to have no fear on that account. It is committed and continued in delightedly and knowingly, where it is committed at al. Fear is not compatible with its nature." ~ New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge

You still have not explained how or why a Holy Spirit indwelt person, a person born of God would blasheme (speak agaisnt) the Holy Spirit as was done in Scripture?

How does a person who has put their faith in Christ commit a sin that its heart is rooted in impenitent and determined unbelief? How exactly does that work, Scripturally?

[GoldenEagle]

The context concerns only to unbelievers. The use of the word "blasphemy" clearly indicates that it was intentional. Blasphemy isn't done on accident. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is a sin rooted in unbelief. They knew Jesus was operating by the power of the Holy Spirit and they deliberately sought to discredit Him by claiming that He was casting out demons by the power of the prince of demons. So, speaking agaisnt the Holy Spirit is defined by the context.

Exactly. Context is key. I agree brother.

[Guest Butero]

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. Matthew 12:31,32

You are mistaken on this point Shiloh. Anyone is capable of speaking a word against the Holy Ghost. In addition, the only way a person can be saved is for the Father to reveal the Son to them, as he did to the Apostle Peter.

The problem Butero is that you are ignoring the context. The context concerns only to unbelievers. The use of the word "blasphemy" clearly indicates that it was intentional. Blasphemy isn't done on accident. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is a sin rooted in unbelief. They knew Jesus was operating by the power of the Holy Spirit and they deliberately sought to discredit Him by claiming that He was casting out demons by the power of the prince of demons. So, speaking agaisnt the Holy Spirit is defined by the context.

There is no question Jesus was speaking to unbelievers, but he never said that the sin could only be committed by unbelievers. The scripture I gave mentions two differen't things. First is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, and second is speaking against the Holy Spirit. Jesus made a point to make a distinction. Had he only mentioned blasphemy, I would agree with you about it having to be intentional.

Did they really know Jesus was doing what he did through the power of God? Maybe and maybe not? It is possible some were deceived? Saul of Tarsus didn't believe in Jesus, and I would imagine many others were deceived as well? Some probably did know better, but were threatened by him? It is a real stretch to claim that they all knew he was really of God, just as it is reaching to say that the context proves only an unbeliever can commit blashpemy against the Holy Spirit or speak against the Holy Spirit.

It is not simply some generic criticism of the Holy Spirit. Charismatics have long used a very hyper-literal interpretation of this passage to silence anyone who questions the legitmacy and biblical validity of some of their questionable practices, particularly in the Word of Faith movement. Any serious attempt to ascertain the authenticity of their supernatural activities is met with a scathing threat that to challenge their practices, teachings, etc. is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. The passage and others in the Gospels about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit have been used as a weapon by the Word of Faith movement to intimidate others from challenging them.

Of course they have Shiloh. Benny Hinn is one of those who try to scare people against questioning anything he says or does. Your concern about this kind of misuse of scripture is valid, but that still doesn't mean a Christian couldn't speak against the Holy Spirit or blaspheme the Holy Spirit. It just means some false teachers will abuse this warning from scripture to fend off any serious challenge to things they are doing that are not scriptural.

Furthermore, it is important to understand why this is an unpardonable sin. It is NOT unpardonable because it is so heinous and awful that God simply can't bring Himself to forgive it. To argue that it is beyond the power of God forgive it, opens up a pandora's box of theological problems, not the least of which is that man is at least in one area, more powerful to God. When we get to the point when we think we have committed a sin that has overpowered God's ability or willingness to forgive, we have entered into the realm of pride and have directly challenged God's integrity.

If God says that if you do this sin, he won't forgive you, that doesn't make a person more powerful than God. To make man more powerful than God would mean he could do something God said he won't pardon, and expect to be forgiven anyway. God is fully in control here. He chooses who he will forgive, not us. How does that make us more powerful than God? It makes us completely powerless. It means that there is a sin that we can commit and there is nothing we can do about it.

"The sin against the Holy Spirit unpardonable because of its own nature: It consists in the rejection of way of salvation by Christ, in opposition to the fullest evidence and the only evidence that shall be given (Heb. 2: 3)

The sin against the Holy Spirit consists in continual impenitence and unbelief. It is not an act, but habit. It is the calm, determined, and persevering rejection of Jesus Christ as the Savior of man, in opposition t all the testimony of His word and Spirit. Consequently, its nature is incapable of forgiveness. No one who is afraid of having committed this sin has done so; for its very nature is to have no fear on that account. It is committed and continued in delightedly and knowingly, where it is committed at al. Fear is not compatible with its nature." ~ New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge

I have heard this interpretation before, and don't agree with it. At least, I don't agree with what this person claims blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is. I do believe that if we desire salvation, we haven't committed the unpardonable sin. I think everyone here agrees on that point.

You still have not explained how or why a Holy Spirit indwelt person, a person born of God would blasheme (speak agaisnt) the Holy Spirit as was done in Scripture?

I don't see any need to explain why someone would commit a sin. Why does a Christian steal, commit adultery, lie, bear false witness, kill, do anything wrong? I can't explain that. Perhaps a Christian gets angry with God over something tragic that happened in their life, and they speak against the Holy Spirit? Why would anyone commit this sin? Again, there are two things mentioned here. The first is blasphemy and the second is speaking against the Holy Spirit.

How does a person who has put their faith in Christ commit a sin that its heart is rooted in impenitent and determined unbelief? How exactly does that work, Scripturally?

I don't agree with that interpretation of the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and speaking against the Holy Spirit. I don't accept that it is rooted in impenitent and determined unbelief. You cannot prove that scripturally. It is just one man's interpretation, and it doesn't address speaking against the Holy Spirit.

[Guest shiloh357]

You are mistaken on this point Shiloh. Anyone is capable of speaking a word against the Holy Ghost.

The Bible doesn’t say that. Where do you derive from Scripture that anyone (including Christians) can commit that sin???

There is no question Jesus was speaking to unbelievers, but he never said that the sin could only be committed by unbelievers.

But the ONLY time it is ever committed in Scripture is by unbelievers. You cannot point to ONE place in Scripture where a believer committed that sin. You also cannot point to ONE warning given to the churches about this. If Christians were in danger of committing a sin that could doom them to hell, don’t you think that would one of the most important things to make people aware of? Don’t you think that Paul would sound that warning in all of his epistles??

The scripture I gave mentions two differen't things. First is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, and second is speaking against the Holy Spirit. Jesus made a point to make a distinction. Had he only mentioned blasphemy, I would agree with you about it having to be intentional.

Actually that passage reflects a very common Hebrew structure, even though it is written in Greek. In Hebrew thought, a concept is often reiterated twice in succession although they mean the same thing. You can see it all throughout Scripture. It is a form of parallelism known as synonymous parallelism here is another example:

“He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.

(Psalms 103:10)”

It is the same thing in here in Matthew 12. Jesus is simply restating the same thing, saying it two different ways. “Speaking against the Holy Spirit” in the immediate literary context is referencing the aforementioned act of blasphemy. It is all part of the same line of thought and so you cannot arbitrarily decide on your own what the text means. You MUST follow the immediate context.

Did they really know Jesus was doing what he did through the power of God? Maybe and maybe not? It is possible some were deceived?

Blasphemy is not accidental. No form of slander is ever accidental. It is an attempt to injure someone’s reputation. Because we know it was an act of blasphemy, it was not done in ignorance. Their “unbelief” was intentional. It was innocent ignorance. They recognized the power of God working through Jesus and they hated Him all the more for it.

It is a real stretch to claim that they all knew he was really of God, just as it is reaching to say that the context proves only an unbeliever can commit blashpemy against the Holy Spirit or speak against the Holy Spirit.

Not all unbelief is based in ignorance. I have seen where unbelievers on this board have stated that even if God is real and the Bible is true, they would reject Jesus’ anyway. There are people whose unbelief is intentional and determined.

If God says that if you do this sin, he won't forgive you, that doesn't make a person more powerful than God.

But that is not what the text says. We have nothing from God saying, “if you commit this sin, I will not forgive you.” Jesus said that those who commit this will not be forgiven in this life or the next. A person who refuses to repent of a sin will not be forgiven for it. The person who is so wicked that they would puprosely seek to injure the Lord's reputation are operating from heart that is so hard and inpenitent, that they will not be forgiven because they will never repent of their wickedness.

The fact is that the power of the blood of Jesus with reference to forgiveness of sins is mentioned numerous times in the NT and it is never accompanied by any caveat about the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Again, if God were concerned that we might commit a such a sin, you would expect to find it mentioned everytime forgiveness is mentioned. After all, it’s not like the original audience had the benefit of reading all of the books of the NT, as we do. So it would have behooved Paul to make sure everyone knew that there is a line you can cross and a sin you can commit that cannot be forgiven. But He didn't do that. Paul did not inform anyone in the churches that they could do something that would doom them to hell forever.

If there were a sin that you could commit that not even the blood of Jesus could cleanse you from and could doom you to hell without hope of redemption, that would be the number one item on your list to tell people. To not inform them would be criminal. It would be like having the cure for a terminal disease and never telling anyone.

He chooses who he will forgive, not us. How does that make us more powerful than God? It makes us completely powerless. It means that there is a sin that we can commit and there is nothing we can do about it.

So at any time, I can commit a sin and God may choose not to forgive it? Can you provide Scripture for that? Is God really that capricious about sin?

I have heard this interpretation before, and don't agree with it. At least, I don't agree with what this person claims blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is. I do believe that if we desire salvation, we haven't committed the unpardonable sin. I think everyone here agrees on that point.

But It completely agrees with the nature of blasphemy, especially as it is depicited in the Gospels. Blasphemy is intentional because it is an attempt to discredit and injure someone’s reputation. In the Gospels, the pharisees were trying to diiscredit Jesus’ ministry and accused Him of indewlt by the prince of demons and operating in the power of the prince of demons. They were injuring the reputation of the Holy Spirit by calling Him a demon. That Jesus references this as blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, it indicates that they knew Jesus was operating in the power of the Holy Spirit and it only goes to show just how evil they were. So the above description that you disagree with is completely accurate and the onus is on you to show why it isn’t.

I don't see any need to explain why someone would commit a sin. Why does a Christian steal, commit adultery, lie, bear false witness, kill, do anything wrong?

That is an evasive answer. I didn't ask you how to explain why a person would commit a sin. I asked you how or why would a person indwelt by the Holy Spirit blaspheme the Holy Spirit. How does that work, scripturally? I was curious as to how you could explain that particular sin. The point is that it makes no sense to say that a person indwelt by the Holy Spirit can blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Such a person has no will to do so. It is a sin that rooted in an intentional rejection of Jesus, so it makes no sense to say that a believer would do something that is charactistically rooted in unbelief and in a rejection of the very Jesus that the person has already accepted as Savior.

I don't agree with that interpretation of the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and speaking against the Holy Spirit. I don't accept that it is rooted in impenitent and determined unbelief. You cannot prove that scripturally. It is just one man's interpretation, and it doesn't address speaking against the Holy Spirit.

It is not an interpretation at all. The nature of blasphemy is that it is rooted in a rejection of the Lord, hence unbelief, albeit an intentional and purposeful unbelief. The ONLY people who are recorded as having committed are those who rejected Jesus. No other context is given. No bibliclal record of a believer committing this exists in Scripture and so the person who has something to prove Scripturally is you. Can you provide ONE place where the epistles to the churches that tells Christians that they can commit this sin and be forever doomed to hell? Can you show one place in Acts where this sin is recorded having been committed a follower of Jesus? How can a follower of Jesus commit a sin that is based on a rejection of Jesus? How can a Holy Spirit filled and empowered believer blaspheme the Holy Spirit? I would love to see your biblical platform on that.

[NGKnightfell]

If you have the desire to be saved - you can be - for that desire only comes from God Himself. If you had committed the unpardonable sin, you would have no desire for salvation whatsoever. You would not be drawn toward Jesus at all. Why would God give you a desire to be forgiven, if He did not want to forgive you? Repentance and faith are special gifts of God, which He would not bestow on any man if He were determined never to pardon him.

Just so I am clear about what you mean in this passage, are you saying that God calls all men (people) to be saved, and all those that WANT to be saved, He does save. However, while hearing this call from God, some people choose to reject this calling, and having done so, they essentially, are blaspheming the Holy Spirit, and from that point on can NO LONGER be saved? That the Holy Spirit simply stops striving with this human?

What if a person simply resists the calling for a time, and says over and over again that they are "not interested" in the Gospel, or that the Gospel may be "good enough for me" but that he prefers not to be bothered? Does the apparent lack of desire to be saved at any given moment always imply an automatic indication that he has already committed the unforgiveable sin, and that God has lost interest in him?

No offense, but I had always believed that as long a human drew breath, that there was still time for him or her to change their minds about God and about their lives. That in order to literally blaspheme the Holy Spirit one would have to deny His calling right up to their dying breath, and at THAT point, it would become an unpardonable sin. After all, it is not until we are DEAD that we face the judgment, and once dead, there is NO changing one's mind about anything.

Being misguided, disillusioned, angry, bitter and a great host of other detrimental attitudes towards life could very well deafen a person to the call of God and cause a person to resist the pull of the Holy Spirit. If we treated every person as irretrievably lost simply because they do not currently show an interest in salvation, then why bother evangelizing in the first place? Why bother trying to love this person, and showing them by the love we have for each other that there is a BETTER way than their bitter attitude towards God?

Please, let me know where I am going wrong in my understanding of your post ...

This is not what I got from her posts. Take it at what it says. If someone does not have a desire to be saved, they won't be. If anyone has committed the unforgivable sin, they would not have a desire to repent. I do believe that God would turn such a person over to Satan.

Yes, God does do that ... but what is His purpose and intent for this? The context of the Scripture that admonishes the church to boot unrepentant church members out of the fellowship in order that Satan would buffet them about is in order that they would receive in FULL measure the folly of their unrepentant stand on Scriptural truths in an effort to wake them up.

If they are unwilling or unable to receive godly counsel from fellow believers while existing in the sanctuary and the haven of the church, then they were to be cast out of fellowship, where Satan would have much greater access to his mind and heart. It is hoped that after once again being fully exposed to all of Satan's lies and mistreatment, they will once again seek the grace and fellowship of God and His church, and do so in a fully repentant attitude.

Read with me in 1 Corinthians 5:1-5 -

1It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife. 2You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst.

3For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 4In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5[i have decided] to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. I Corinthians 5:1-5 NASB

and in 1 Timothy 1:18-20 -

18This command I entrust to you, Timothy, [my] son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you fight the good fight, 19keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith. 20Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme. 1 Timothy 1:18-20 NASB

Please note, the underlined portions emphasize that being handed over to Satan is a temporary, but totally necessary, tactic to bring believers back to a right understanding about God, but it is surely a last ditch effort to bring them around when all else has failed.

On the other hand, If folks have not yet been born again, they are ALREADY in the hands of Satan, and God wants to deliver them, not make their tenure with Satan more secure!

My request for clarification stems from the fact that Tinky's post makes it sound like anyone that currently does not have a mindset that is eager to be saved has somehow already committed the unforgiveable sin. And now you are bringing up the idea that God will give them over to Satan in the same context as Tinky made for having already blasphemed, and the implication seems to be that God has also already given up on them all due to an apparent lack of interest in salvation.

Shiloh357 had brought up a very relevant point concerning the way that the Pharisee's had blasphemed the Holy Spirit, when they accused Jesus of having evoked Satan when He performed His miracles. They were very purposeful about their accusation, which makes it all the more blasphemous because as the spiritual leaders of their day, they should have known better!

I can say with all conviction that a person that HAS already blasphemed the Holy Spirit will in all likelihood have nothing good to say about God, nor will he or she express any interest in salvation. However, that does NOT automatically mean that a person that expresses no interest in salvation nor in any other attribute of God has already committed that sin. The two are not mutually inclusive, not by a long shot. A lack of interest in salvation could happen for all manner of other reasons, such as bitterness, anger, disillusionment, or having been bullied by Christians that have an unforgiving nature, and the list goes on and on. Such a person is still being wooed by the Holy Spirit, and still has the opportunity to look once again at the truth, and change his mind - and repent of his previous lack of interest!

I needed to have Tinky elaborate on that point so I was clear on exactly what her stand was. As long as a person draws breath, anyone who confesses his need for salvation before he dies is welcome in God's kingdom. Just look at the thief on the cross ... saved with his own dying breath by His loving Savior, and welcomed that day into paradise.

Edited May 20, 2013 by NGKnightfell

[Guest Butero]

You are mistaken on this point Shiloh. Anyone is capable of speaking a word against the Holy Ghost.

The Bible doesn’t say that. Where do you derive from Scripture that anyone (including Christians) can commit that sin???

Common sense. I know that anyone can open their mouth and speak blasphemous words against the Holy Spirit. What is to stop someone from doing that, short of having their voice box removed?

There is no question Jesus was speaking to unbelievers, but he never said that the sin could only be committed by unbelievers.

But the ONLY time it is ever committed in Scripture is by unbelievers. You cannot point to ONE place in Scripture where a believer committed that sin. You also cannot point to ONE warning given to the churches about this. If Christians were in danger of committing a sin that could doom them to hell, don’t you think that would one of the most important things to make people aware of? Don’t you think that Paul would sound that warning in all of his epistles??

This is the only recorded account of this sin being mentioned. I have never agreed with the notion that the more serious sins have to be repeated over and over and over again, just the make sure we get it. One time is enough. No, I don't think Paul would sound the warning over and over and over again. He was addressing specific issues related to differen't churches, and this was not one of them. In the church of Corinth, he spent time attacking the sin of adultery where incest was involved, and said to turn such a one over to Satan. I don't see him repeating that same warning over and over again, even though it was obviously very serious.

The scripture I gave mentions two differen't things. First is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, and second is speaking against the Holy Spirit. Jesus made a point to make a distinction. Had he only mentioned blasphemy, I would agree with you about it having to be intentional.

Actually that passage reflects a very common Hebrew structure, even though it is written in Greek. In Hebrew thought, a concept is often reiterated twice in succession although they mean the same thing. You can see it all throughout Scripture. It is a form of parallelism known as synonymous parallelism here is another example:

“He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.

(Psalms 103:10)”

It is the same thing in here in Matthew 12. Jesus is simply restating the same thing, saying it two different ways. “Speaking against the Holy Spirit” in the immediate literary context is referencing the aforementioned act of blasphemy. It is all part of the same line of thought and so you cannot arbitrarily decide on your own what the text means. You MUST follow the immediate context.

If this is true, then he is telling us that to blaspheme the Holy Spirit simply means to speak against the Holy Spirit. He first tells them about the serious offense of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, and then tells us exactly what that means. Anyone is capable of speaking against the Holy Spirit. This argument doesn't help your position.

Did they really know Jesus was doing what he did through the power of God? Maybe and maybe not? It is possible some were deceived?

Blasphemy is not accidental. No form of slander is ever accidental. It is an attempt to injure someone’s reputation. Because we know it was an act of blasphemy, it was not done in ignorance. Their “unbelief” was intentional. It was innocent ignorance. They recognized the power of God working through Jesus and they hated Him all the more for it.

They were trying to attack Jesus, but they didn't know they were committing blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Lets look at a real world situation. A minister lays hands on a sick man, and he is healed. Later on, he casts a devil out of someone. Then someone that doesn't like the minister claims he is doing this by the power of Satan, when in reality, it was the power of God. That is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Yes, some ministers have abused this scripture to get people to not question anything they do, but people can really blaspheme the Holy Spirit in this manner.

It is a real stretch to claim that they all knew he was really of God, just as it is reaching to say that the context proves only an unbeliever can commit blashpemy against the Holy Spirit or speak against the Holy Spirit.

Not all unbelief is based in ignorance. I have seen where unbelievers on this board have stated that even if God is real and the Bible is true, they would reject Jesus’ anyway. There are people whose unbelief is intentional and determined.

There is no question that is true. At the same time, there are cases where someone really doesn't know any better, as was the case with Saul of Tarsus.

If God says that if you do this sin, he won't forgive you, that doesn't make a person more powerful than God.

But that is not what the text says. We have nothing from God saying, “if you commit this sin, I will not forgive you.” Jesus said that those who commit this will not be forgiven in this life or the next. A person who refuses to repent of a sin will not be forgiven for it. The person who is so wicked that they would puprosely seek to injure the Lord's reputation are operating from heart that is so hard and inpenitent, that they will not be forgiven because they will never repent of their wickedness.

The fact is that the power of the blood of Jesus with reference to forgiveness of sins is mentioned numerous times in the NT and it is never accompanied by any caveat about the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Again, if God were concerned that we might commit a such a sin, you would expect to find it mentioned everytime forgiveness is mentioned. After all, it’s not like the original audience had the benefit of reading all of the books of the NT, as we do. So it would have behooved Paul to make sure everyone knew that there is a line you can cross and a sin you can commit that cannot be forgiven. But He didn't do that. Paul did not inform anyone in the churches that they could do something that would doom them to hell forever.

If there were a sin that you could commit that not even the blood of Jesus could cleanse you from and could doom you to hell without hope of redemption, that would be the number one item on your list to tell people. To not inform them would be criminal. It would be like having the cure for a terminal disease and never telling anyone.

I have already responded to this point, and I don't agree. There was no need for this to be repeated over and over and over again to make it true.

He chooses who he will forgive, not us. How does that make us more powerful than God? It makes us completely powerless. It means that there is a sin that we can commit and there is nothing we can do about it.

So at any time, I can commit a sin and God may choose not to forgive it? Can you provide Scripture for that? Is God really that capricious about sin?

If God isn't the one doing the forgiving, who is? He has stated that those who speak against the Holy Spirit will not receive forgiveness in this life or the next. That is the choice of God, not to forgive that sin.

I have heard this interpretation before, and don't agree with it. At least, I don't agree with what this person claims blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is. I do believe that if we desire salvation, we haven't committed the unpardonable sin. I think everyone here agrees on that point.

But It completely agrees with the nature of blasphemy, especially as it is depicited in the Gospels. Blasphemy is intentional because it is an attempt to discredit and injure someone’s reputation. In the Gospels, the pharisees were trying to diiscredit Jesus’ ministry and accused Him of indewlt by the prince of demons and operating in the power of the prince of demons. They were injuring the reputation of the Holy Spirit by calling Him a demon. That Jesus references this as blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, it indicates that they knew Jesus was operating in the power of the Holy Spirit and it only goes to show just how evil they were. So the above description that you disagree with is completely accurate and the onus is on you to show why it isn’t.

No it doesn't. There is no way to know that they realized Jesus was operating by the power of God? Some likely did, and some likely didn't, but we don't know for sure? Yes, they were trying to injur Jesus reputation, but that may be because they thought he was a fraud, and they saw that people were following this fraud, and wanted to turn them away from him by injuring his reputation?

I don't see any need to explain why someone would commit a sin. Why does a Christian steal, commit adultery, lie, bear false witness, kill, do anything wrong?

That is an evasive answer. I didn't ask you how to explain why a person would commit a sin. I asked you how or why would a person indwelt by the Holy Spirit blaspheme the Holy Spirit. How does that work, scripturally? I was curious as to how you could explain that particular sin. The point is that it makes no sense to say that a person indwelt by the Holy Spirit can blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Such a person has no will to do so. It is a sin that rooted in an intentional rejection of Jesus, so it makes no sense to say that a believer would do something that is charactistically rooted in unbelief and in a rejection of the very Jesus that the person has already accepted as Savior.

They do it by intentionally trying to ruin the reputation of a Christian minister, operating under the power of the Holy Spirit, but saying that healings that took place were by the power of the devil, or by saying that when a devil was cast out, it was by the power of the devil. A professing Christian is capable of doing that. They might do it out of jealousy? There are many Baptist ministers who despise Pentecostal ministers, and I could see some committing blasphemy against the Holy Ghost by accusing them of operating by the power of Satan, when it was the power of God? They might even know better on the inside, or not be sure, but be so full of hatred for that belief system, they don't care. I say this, still acknowleging that some ministers misuse this scripture to scare people from speaking against unBiblical things they are doing. I also want to make it clear that I am not attacking Baptist ministers, just using an example. I could have used another Denomination to make the point.

I don't agree with that interpretation of the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and speaking against the Holy Spirit. I don't accept that it is rooted in impenitent and determined unbelief. You cannot prove that scripturally. It is just one man's interpretation, and it doesn't address speaking against the Holy Spirit.

It is not an interpretation at all. The nature of blasphemy is that it is rooted in a rejection of the Lord, hence unbelief, albeit an intentional and purposeful unbelief. The ONLY people who are recorded as having committed are those who rejected Jesus. No other context is given. No bibliclal record of a believer committing this exists in Scripture and so the person who has something to prove Scripturally is you. Can you provide ONE place where the epistles to the churches that tells Christians that they can commit this sin and be forever doomed to hell? Can you show one place in Acts where this sin is recorded having been committed a follower of Jesus? How can a follower of Jesus commit a sin that is based on a rejection of Jesus? How can a Holy Spirit filled and empowered believer blaspheme the Holy Spirit? I would love to see your biblical platform on that.

I totally reject the notion I have anything to prove. Jesus stated that there was one unpardonable sin, and never said it could only be committed by unbelievers. I would suggest the burden of proof is on you to show that only unbelievers can commit this sin. I don't have to have specific examples of a person committing a sin. I don't have specific examples of Christians committing a whole host of sins, that I know they are able to commit. In the law of Moses, we are told that we should honor our Father and Mother. Can a Christian fail to obey this commandment? Do they ever sin in this area? Can you give a specific instance where a Christian ever failed to honor Father and Mother? Based on your line of reasoning, I could claim a Christian is incapable of breaking this ordinance because I don't have an example of a Christian sinning in this area in scripture.

[Guest ninhao]

...

I totally reject the notion I have anything to prove. Jesus stated that there was one unpardonable sin, and never said it could only be committed by unbelievers. I would suggest the burden of proof is on you to show that only unbelievers can commit this sin....

Hello Butero,

Mr Shiloh is correct concerning the burden of proof. If scripture only reveals the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit has been committed only by a non believer it is up to you to demonstrate the premise that it can be committed by a believer.

If you may, can you tell me what a believer would need to do to commit this sin ?

[Guest]

.... I totally reject the notion I have anything to prove. Jesus stated that there was one unpardonable sin, and never said it could only be committed by unbelievers. I would suggest the burden of proof is on you to show that only unbelievers can commit this sin....

.... Mr Shiloh is correct concerning the burden of proof. If scripture only reveals the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit has been committed only by a non believer it is up to you to demonstrate the premise that it can be committed by a believer.

If you may, can you tell me what a believer would need to do to commit this sin....

Amen~!

What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops. Matthew 10:27

~

The Holy Spirit Testifies Of The LORD Jesus

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: John 15:26

And A New Born Believer Is Birthed

Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 1 Peter 1:21-23

So Where Oh Where Beloved

Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand. 2 Corinthians 1:24

Is The Believer's

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Romans 3:23-27

Sin

And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, Revelation 1:5

Where?

As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us. Psalms 103:12

~

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe