Botz Posted June 9, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted June 9, 2013 Spiritually, the Church is the New Israel and appropriates the promises of God, fulfilled only through Christ, who is head of the Church, God's people, demonstrating His Kingdom on earth. There is no fulfilment of God's promises outside of Jesus! I agree with what you have written....after the bit I high-lighted in red. It doesn't matter how many times you try and hold forth that spiritually the Church is the New Israel...even if it makes some sort of sense..the fact is that Christians have used this very terminology for centuries to cut Israel out of the equation, and to promote Christian anti-Semitism, and in doing so have made the mistake Paul told them to be careful not to make in Romans 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gandalf Posted June 10, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 377 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 29 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/28/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 10, 2013 Spiritually, the Church is the New Israel and appropriates the promises of God, fulfilled only through Christ, who is head of the Church, God's people, demonstrating His Kingdom on earth. There is no fulfilment of God's promises outside of Jesus! I agree with what you have written....after the bit I high-lighted in red. It doesn't matter how many times you try and hold forth that spiritually the Church is the New Israel...even if it makes some sort of sense..the fact is that Christians have used this very terminology for centuries to cut Israel out of the equation, and to promote Christian anti-Semitism, and in doing so have made the mistake Paul told them to be careful not to make in Romans 11. I'm glad you agree with me - at least in part. We're getting somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted June 11, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted June 11, 2013 Spiritually, the Church is the New Israel and appropriates the promises of God, fulfilled only through Christ, who is head of the Church, God's people, demonstrating His Kingdom on earth. There is no fulfilment of God's promises outside of Jesus! I agree with what you have written....after the bit I high-lighted in red. It doesn't matter how many times you try and hold forth that spiritually the Church is the New Israel...even if it makes some sort of sense..the fact is that Christians have used this very terminology for centuries to cut Israel out of the equation, and to promote Christian anti-Semitism, and in doing so have made the mistake Paul told them to be careful not to make in Romans 11. I'm glad you agree with me - at least in part. We're getting somewhere. You will find that everyone will agree with what is not in red. Where we disagree with is what is in red. There is no mention in the Bible about there being a New Israel, and you hav ebeen asked to provide scripture to back your insistent referral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Bless Israel But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints. For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem. It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things. Romans 15:25-25 Amen~! ~ Over the years I have found it important to take the whole tenor of the New Testament into consideration rather than relying on pet "proof-texts". The latter seem to lead only to error on the one hand and petty bickering on the other. If you want Scriptural "proof", then I can only respond "read the New Testament". I have and it is obvious you can't provide one shred of evidence. I have read the NT and not one of the 71 references to Israel make any reference to the Church. So the NT doesn't support your assertions. You still haven't told us what proof texts you are referring to. Your argument is ringing rather hollow. You can blow some smoke, but there is no substance. ~ God Knows, For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. Matthew 23:39 James Knew, James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. James 1:1 So How About You? For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. Romans 11:25-27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakWood Posted June 13, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Let us look at Zechariah 8:23 This is what the Lord Almighty says: In those days ten men from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, "Let us go with you because we have heard that God is with you". This hasn't happened yet so is obviously a future prophecy. If God has finished with the Jews and we are the new Israel, why would this happen? Surely we would all be the same. Jews who worship Christ and Gentiles who worship Christ would be one and the same. There would be no need of anyone to take hold of a Jew and go anywhere with him. Likewise, if we are all 'spiritual Jews' then this verse is nonsensical. Then of course there is the book of Ezekiel from Chapter 37 onwards. If we are the new Israel then it makes little sense. I suggest to any Christian who hasn't, that they read Ezekiel which in my opinion is one of the most powerfully prophetic of all OT books along with Daniel. Can any replacement theologists please explain Zechariah 8 and Ezekiel? I will leave you with Amos 9:15 I will plant Israel in their own land, never again to be uprooted from the land that I given them. Where is our land that we are never again to be uprooted from (we were uprooted from there before, apparently) if we are the New Israel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gandalf Posted June 13, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 377 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 29 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/28/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 13, 2013 ....................... Where is our land that we are never again to be uprooted from (we were uprooted from there before, apparently) if we are the New Israel? Our land is, of course, the Kingdom of God, its ultimate fulfilment being in Heaven. Only Heaven can fulfill eternal promises. The earth is doomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakWood Posted June 13, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) ....................... Where is our land that we are never again to be uprooted from (we were uprooted from there before, apparently) if we are the New Israel? Our land is, of course, the Kingdom of God, its ultimate fulfilment being in Heaven. Only Heaven can fulfill eternal promises. The earth is doomed. So even when I give you OT scripture (books written by Jews, for Jews), you still claim that it's all about us and not them. You have created a great dilemma for yourself by what you have just said, and I suggest that you think very carefully before write your next post. Let me explain: The only reasons that Christians have any need at all for OT books is that they explain and complement the New Testament and they also give us prophetic insight. The OT books at the time they were written were part of Jewish belief. They were for Jews only (and any non-Jews that had been incorporated into the care of the Jewish people). Nobody else on the planet had any interest in them. It was only until after the death and resurrection of Christ that they became widely read by Gentiles. Now according to the Old Testament God favoured the Jews then he fell out with them because they abandoned them, then he forgave them, then they abandoned him again.... and so on. It all culminates with a final promise from God, "I will never abandon you again". But according to you and other replacement theologists, the final promise is not for the Jews at all, but for some other people in the future! God therefore has been deceiving the Jews. When they upset him he kept his promise and kicked them out. When they repented he let them back in to his favour, but he always had a trick up his sleeve and fooled them into believing that when he referred to them (favourably or unfavourably) he always meant them - but no, one this one occasion he actually meant someone else. What a deceitful god he must be, and if he was so untrustworthy how can we trust him? Replacement theology is therefore an attack on God's integrity. It is an indirect way of saying that the Jews were God's fall guys all along. Poor old Jews. No wonder they are persecuted, God never cared much for them in the first place. Of course where does that leave us? Maybe God has been stringing us along too!!!! Remember that God is not a liar, nor a deceiver. He does not break his promises either. Of course, if you believe that God is a deceiver or should be, then feel free to worship a god that is deceitful. There are plenty of them to chose from! Edited June 13, 2013 by WillowWood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nChrist Posted June 13, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 438 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,947 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 300 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/28/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/18/1949 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Rule Number One: God keeps all of His promises and never lies. When in doubt, go back to rule number one. God has promises to keep with Israel, and He will keep them most perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 ....................... Where is our land that we are never again to be uprooted from (we were uprooted from there before, apparently) if we are the New Israel? Our land is, of course, the Kingdom of God, its ultimate fulfilment being in Heaven. Only Heaven can fulfill eternal promises. The earth is doomed. The problem is that it is speaking of Israel never again being uprooted. That is the literal understanding of the text. You are ignoring what the text means in order to twist it to support your false doctirne. The earth is not doomed. The earth is going to be redeemed at the end and refurbished. The New Heavens and New Earth will be a refurbished version of what we have now. It will not be a brand new earth. This earth will be purged by fire and redeemed for all eternity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted June 17, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Isa 62:6 On your walls, O Jerusalem, I have set watchmen; all the day and all the night they shall never be silent. You who put the LORD in remembrance, take no rest, Isa 62:7 and give him no rest until he establishes Jerusalem and makes it a praise in the earth. Isa 62:8 The LORD has sworn by his right hand and by his mighty arm: "I will not again give your grain to be food for your enemies, and foreigners shall not drink your wine for which you have labored; Isa 62:9 but those who garner it shall eat it and praise the LORD, and those who gather it shall drink it in the courts of my sanctuary." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts