What is Israel?

[JohnD]

Okay, Nebula.

 

What's your take on...

 

Galatians 6:13-16 (NIV)
13 Not even those who are circumcised obey the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh.
14 May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
15 Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation.
16 Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, even to the Israel of God.

 

Oh, that doesn't mean Gentiles.

 

Naughty naughty, foolish Gentile born believers... don't you know you are only second class citizens?

 

Never mind Galatians 3:28 because women and gentiles and slaves are all second class citizens.

[JohnD]

The scriptures speak of provoking the Jewish people to jealousy.

 

Two things prevent this... the unhebrew way the Church has been formed

 

And the denial of Spiritual Israel / Jewishness of the believers.

 

What's to be jealous? !

[nebula]

Okay, Nebula.

 

What's your take on...

 

Galatians 6:13-16 (NIV)

13 Not even those who are circumcised obey the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh.

14 May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

15 Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation.

16 Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, even to the Israel of God.

 

Oh, that doesn't mean Gentiles.

 

Naughty naughty, foolish Gentile born believers... don't you know you are only second class citizens?

 

Never mind Galatians 3:28 because women and gentiles and slaves are all second class citizens.

 

Where in the world do you get this "second class citizens" from?

 

In Romans 11, Paul divided believing Jews and believing Gentiles as natural branches and wild branches. Wild branches do not become natural after being grafted into the tree, nor are they considered any lesser value than the natural. They just serve different functions.

 

You are assuming insult where none is given.

 

Is the eye superior to the ear, or vice versa?

 

Can you not accept differences for what they are without claiming anyone is claiming one group to be superior over another?

[nebula]

The scriptures speak of provoking the Jewish people to jealousy.

 

Two things prevent this... the unhebrew way the Church has been formed

I can agree with that.

 

And the denial of Spiritual Israel / Jewishness of the believers.

Actually, the institutionalized Church has claimed themselves to have replaced the descendants of Jacob as Israel. In so doing, they have forced Jews to convert to their Gentile way of worshiping God if they wanted to receive Jesus as their Messiah - oh, but He is "Christ", not "Messiah,"

 

What's to be jealous? !

I could ask the same - why should they be jealous of a "Church" that paints Jesus as a European, with worship practices derived from their previous pagan cultures, who treat Jews as second/ third/or fourth class citizens, who claim their inheritance in Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob has been nullified?

 

And you wonder why they think Jesus is their enemy?

[JohnD]

Can we bump this up into a fresh discussion?