If we get nuked?

[OneAccord]

dvolach:

Great article, I read the whole thing. Am presently also reading a book written by a pastor at the onset of World War II who lived in England and was wrestling terribly with the role of a Christian in wartime. His conclusion was that it was a totally unfair decision to have to make and that each one would have to come to terms with it in his own heart. He admiored both the staunch pacifists of his day as well as the nobility of the soliders who took on Hitler's regime.

This is a very interesting quote from the article you presented:

Vengeance belongs to God, and it often comes through the government. The government has been given a function which has been explicitly forbidden to the Christian.

I don't understand what the guy means here, because this is certainly not the prevailing attitude in the church today.

Augustine's rules for a just war are quite succint, and I'm sure the dialog in his day must have been quite interesting, I would have love to have been a fly on the wall for that discourse:

1. JUST WAR can only be waged by legitimate authorities.

2. JUST WAR must exhaust all non-violent options first.

3. JUST WAR must have a reasonable chance to succeed.

4. JUST WAR must be fought with right intentions.

5. JUST WAR must discriminate between combative enemies and non-combative civilians (Death of civilians is considered justifiable only if unavoidable).

6. JUST WAR's ultimate goal should be to re-establish peace.

In light of these 'rules', I am not convinced that our mission in Iraq is justified, particular in regard to rule #2.

As for the submitting to Hitler's government if you are a good Romans 13 Christian, then absolutely you should submit. The same doctrines that are being espoused in regards to our submission to Bush & government would have to apply across the board, even to those Iraqi Christians who should have been graciously submitting to their leader Saddam Hussein. After all, God raised him up, too, for His purposes and intents.

As for you, Shiloh 357:

Mercy triumphs over justice: Oooops!!! Misquote, you busted me! Good eye!

The verse is James 2:13 For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

It still applies in the context of my post, however. Thanks for correcting me! I will never misquote that verse again (one of my favorites, by the way!)

[ted]

In light of these 'rules', I am not convinced that our mission in Iraq is justified, particular in regard to rule #2.

Then you are overlooking 12 years of UN sanctions, diplomatic attempts and willful disregard of any kind of resemblance of morality on the part of Saddam Hussein.

The world played cat and mouse games with him for over 12 years and for what?

The only one's that got any kind of benefit was the upper echelon of the UN, the French and the Russians in the form of oil for food kickbacks.

t.

[M45510G1C]

HI, Still having problems with my P.C. Anyways. It's a tough call for me, And no matter what, I've always found the BIBLE to be VERY SENSIBLE in every respect. And for me, I would make every effort to save human life whenever it is possible, But when it comes to deaing with an UNREASONABLE PERSON , PEOPLE, COUNTRY, OR EVEN A RELIGION THAT TEACHES, " KILL CHRISTIAN AND JEWS " You got to ask yourself when will THIS KILLING END? We can't just stand there and do NOTHING, While OUR men women and children are SLAUGHTERED right in front of our EYES! For me, it's kill or be killed, And if you have " NO " RESPECT for the BULL then " YOU'LL GET THE HORN"..........TAKO

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't understand this jingoist mindset at all. Kill or be killed? If you option is truly kill or be killed, and I have my doubts there, why coose kill?

If you kill, you are likely only going to breed more anger and hatred while still being subject to the suffering of this world.

While if you are killed, you gain life eternal, free from any and all suffering, while your enemy looses the target of his hatred.

[dgolvach]

I don't understand this jingoist mindset at all. Kill or be killed? If you option is truly kill or be killed, and I have my doubts there, why coose kill?

If you kill, you are likely only going to breed more anger and hatred while still being subject to the suffering of this world.

While if you are killed, you gain life eternal, free from any and all suffering, while your enemy looses the target of his hatred.

They do wan't to kill us. And givin a chance they will. This includes YOUR children and mine. If you don't understand the duty of a parent and a fellow citizen to protect our children and country from these murdering thugs I don't know what to say other than you would probably not even be here if it were not for the brave souls who do take up arms. Go spend some time on the south tip of Manhattan and take a good look at those gapping holes. I have and it's real and we did nothing to warrent that.

[M45510G1C]

I don't understand this jingoist mindset at all. Kill or be killed? If you option is truly kill or be killed, and I have my doubts there, why coose kill?

If you kill, you are likely only going to breed more anger and hatred while still being subject to the suffering of this world.

While if you are killed, you gain life eternal, free from any and all suffering, while your enemy looses the target of his hatred.

They do wan't to kill us. And givin a chance they will. This includes YOUR children and mine. If you don't understand the duty of a parent and a fellow citizen to protect our children and country from these murdering thugs I don't know what to say other than you would probably not even be here if it were not for the brave souls who do take up arms. Go spend some time on the south tip of Manhattan and take a good look at those gapping holes. I have and it's real and we did nothing to warrent that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is debateable whether or not we did anything to warrant that, as the US has a history of terrible foreign policy. It is also very debateable just who perpetrated the attack on 9/11. I do understand my duty to protect my family, however, I have a duty to be a light to the world which comes first, and if that means laying down my life, then so be it.

Edited November 17, 2004 by M45510G1C

[OneAccord]

hmh

If we get nuked by a terrorist retaliate by first nuke the cities of Mecca and Medina, which is their "holy" cities. Then inform Iran and Syria and the rest of the arab world that if the is any evidence that they helped supply the weapon, their country will suffer the same fate.

These kinds of comments from folks calling themselves Christians are disturbing, to say the least. What do you think it means to be a light to the world, nuclear fusion? Don't you realize there are people in those countries? And some of them might even be Christians, and all of them are made in the image of God. This is a terrible witness to unbelievers and one of the big reasons they want nothing to do with the church. It desecrates the name of Jesus, and you will be brought to account:

Matthew 12:34-37 For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things. But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."

[dgolvach]

These kinds of comments from folks calling themselves Christians are disturbing, to say the least. What do you think it means to be a light to the world, nuclear fusion? Don't you realize there are people in those countries? And some of them might even be Christians, and all of them are made in the image of God. This is a terrible witness to unbelievers and one of the big reasons they want nothing to do with the church. It desecrates the name of Jesus, and you will be brought to account:

What about the folks in this country? Remember those poor souls in in WTC on 911. Did the enemy realize that there were people in those towers? War , sad as it is, is what it is. It sadly took killing millions of Germans who were" Christians and People"to put an end to the evil aspirations of Hitler and his Nazi regime. It sadly took killing thousands and thousands of southerners who were "Christians and People", to put an end to an evil slavery culture in the civil war. Don't fool your self into thinking that if we just lay down our arms and say "lets just be friends" that the Ben Ladens of the evil extreme Islamic world are going to stop. They would love nothing more than for us to not hit back because it would make the job of dusting us off the planet much easier. When we are being threatened as we are, war is just. If we get nuked, we need to hunt down the terrorists and bring them to justice even if they choose to hide out in "Holy Places". Perhaps the Islamic world would be well advised to stop harboring these thugs and to put an end to the "blame everything on Christians and Jews" schools that are producing these terrorists. I hate war and any Christian should but that dosen't mean that we should just lay down like sheep and get slaughtered. Its not about hate. Its about protecting your country, family and friends. Friend... if thats un-Christian to you, feel free to call me a "so-called Christian". I'm guilty! I'm all for killing the thugs who wan't to kill my family and friends. If the Islamic terrorists change their mind and choose to live along side of us in peace, I would be thrilled to participate in that peace.

Dan

[Trinity]

Yup! we need to protect ourself, because we are sitting ducks.

[M45510G1C]

Funny how, when it served our purposes, it was all well and good for us to use "Bin Laden's evil", but now, with the cold war over, he must be hunted down and killed.

We created that monster, and now we have to deal with the consequences, there is no reason why innocent Iraqis should pay for what we, or Bin Laden have done. It is sick, we are spraying their land with toxic waste, which will be indiscriminately killing people for centuries, and this is somehow acceptable?

This coming from the same people who speak of the terrors of abortion and the sanctity of life.

Edited November 17, 2004 by M45510G1C

[dgolvach]

It is debateable whether or not we did anything to warrant that, as the US has a history of terrible foreign policy. It is also very debateable just who perpetrated the attack on 9/11. I do understand my duty to protect my family, however, I have a duty to be a light to the world which comes first, and if that means laying down my life, then so be it.

Let me end the debate for you. The murder of 3000 innocent civilians on 911 WAS NOT JUSTIFIED by any argument! How dose turning your fate over to terrorists equal being a light to the world? Your dead! Thanks to Islam, there is no light in most of the Muslim part of the world unless you consider Islam (which rejects Christ as Lord) to be of God. It seems to me that creating freedom to even own a Bible is being a light on to the world. If the terrorists have there way, owning a bible will be a capital offence. No Bible?No light.