other moral values

[Guest kuada]

The election is finally over, but I have to admit that I am disappointed that so much emphasis was placed on one or two moral values, but seeminglyat the expense of other moral values in the Bible. For instance, in Isaiah, the prophet is very angry at the Israelites for not being concerned about "the orphan and the widow," about the "usurers" (i.e. bankers) charging high interest rates. In other words, he was angry at the priorities of making too much money at others' expense and for not being very concerned about the less fortunate.

Bush's policies, such as the tax cuts, favored the wealthy and not the poor or average person. He argued that the wealthy pay higher taxes so they should get higher benefits. But doesn't the Bible argue that the wealthy have a greater social responsibility to society because God has entrusted them with greater wealth? People complain about paying taxes, but don't we all benefit from paved roads, the public school system, fire/police departments, electricity and homeland security? They have to be paid for somehow. Besides, Jesus gave unto Caesar what was Caesar's, and he never complained about it.

Jesus also gave away everything he had. His goal wasn't to make as much money as possible. He had more lofty goals. Perhaps we as a society could begin to promote more lofty vocational goals besides making as much money as possible, and paying as little taxes as possible. Why not take pride in paying taxes as part of our civic duty to improve society instead of pocketing as much as possible? Why not teach our children to choose a profession that betters society or brings personal satisfaction, not one that brings in as much money as possible?

I was also upset that the Bush administration won't allow the federal government to buy prescription drugs from Canada because they are "unsafe." Hmmm. Canada? Could it be that the pharmaceutical companies that make huge contributions to the Republican party have something to do with it? Several states already buy drugs for half the cost, and no one is dying there. Is this policy valuing the rich or the average person?

China forbids its citizens from having more than one child and will sterilize women. If a woman does become pregnant twice, she is forced to have an abortion, even in the eighth month. Christians in China are also persecuted. Why isn't Bush protesting or removing favored nation status? Again, perhaps he doesn't want to jeopardize all the money made in trade. Isn't this valuing mammon over moral values?

Instead of being uncritical cheerleaders of certain politicians, I believe Christians need to stand up for all the moral values in the Bible. If you are like me, you either know from personal experience, or you have a friend who knows, that this country's health care system is in complete shambles. Just because this is traditionally a Democratic issue, I believe Christians should take it on as a moral issue, especially for the millions of children in this country who do not have any coverage whatsoever. We need something different, and doing nothing just isn't working. My favority theologian says that the worst kind of evil is indifference to evil; in other words, apathy. God is not. apathetic. Let's not have him return and say, "I came to you when I was naked, and couldn't pay for my insulin, but you told me that your taxes were too high and that arguing about an unlikely constitutional amendment was more important."

[Leonard]

Kuada: Well, my family was in a lower middle class income bracket, and OUR taxes went down! We also finally had the government send back $300 of the money they annually steal from us (taxes)....THAT WAS A FIRST!

I'm sorry you didn't bother to do the rudimentary math for yourself, and instead simply chose to just accept the Marxist lies as gospel truth, but I'm sure if you apply yourself, you will be able to do the addition and subtraction on your own, which will clearly prove otherwise!

I don't think you will actually bother doing it, but I'm sure you could.

[Fr Chuck]

The election is over, get over it.

Next Bush is not the final say on any of the issues, not really congress is the one that passes the laws, he ony gets to sign or not sign them.

And at least on taxes, he gave one tax cut to the rich, did anyone mention the dozens of tax cuts the poor got. sorry but you are way off on that one.

And we don't have to buy American drugs from Canada, just pass laws in the US that protects the companies from being sued for bad drugs.

And the flu shot is a good example of why not to buy drugs from outside the country, they don't have the control over quality that we do.

[OneAccord]

Thank you, Kuada, for a wonderful, heartfelt post. Welcome to Worthy Boards, where as you can see your view will not be very welcome.

Some of us, however, agree with you all the way!!!! As for myself, I could not in good conscience vote for either party in this election. I don't believe that one moral issue supercedes another.

I pray you continue to have an open heart, that it may abound and overflow with the agape love that Jesus desires in us, and that you may find some work of faith that will allow you to serve the poor, the widow, the fatherless and the stranger, a most high calling.

Be at peace with all men.

A sister pilgrim, Rose

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Kuada,

I agree with those who have said your post was written in igorance of the facts. I personally do not welcome it here. You have jumped on the LIBERAL bandwagon and yet I presume you call yourself a Christian.

Whether you like it or not, the Presidential office is NOT under a "theocracy", but fortunately we DO have a professed believer now upholding it who is more in line with Christian values than ANY leader of any country in this world.

You say that "other" moral values should also be taken into account like helping the widow and the orphan. Well, can you tell me how many widows and orphans have gone hungry or have died because of Bush policies? Then consider how many have died because of abortion and the aids epidimic which is predominantly among the homosexuals? GET YOUR PRIORITIES STRAIGHT!

Of course you will only retort that ALL sin is the same in God's sight, that is, sin is sin. Well, certainly even for one sin we find ourselves condemned before a Holy God, but He also has given us DEGREES of punishment for various TYPES of sin. We DO NOT award capitol punishment for petty theft or for lies or many other "misdemeanors" This is in accordance with the MORAL VALUES of the Bible. In other words, the PUNISHMENT must fit the crime. So how is it that those who perform abortions, and those that have them, and those that commit the abomination of homosexuality are freely excused to go on commiting them and are even welcomed by today's society?

We need more "conservatives" in office so that perhaps one day, we may eliminate these TWO major dangers to a FREE AND GODLY people and here I am speaking specifically about Christians, NOT the whole United States.

You need to get a life and get over it, or otherwise DO NOT CONSIDER YOURSELF AS A CHRISTIAN. Your ignorance is so piercing in your post, if I were you, I would be ashamed for having written it.

Your Servant in Christ,

Dad Ernie

[OneAccord]

but He also has given us DEGREES of punishment for various TYPES of sin. We DO NOT award capitol punishment for petty theft or for lies or many other "misdemeanors" This is in accordance with the MORAL VALUES of the Bible. In other words, the PUNISHMENT must fit the crime. So how is it that those who perform abortions, and those that have them, and those that commit the abomination of homosexuality are freely excused to go on commiting them and are even welcomed by today's society?

He also gave us mercy and forgiveness.

[OneAccord]

Here's an article for you Kuada, that speaks very eloquently to your original post:

Recovering a hijacked faith

By Jim Wallis | July 13, 2004

MANY OF US feel that our faith has been stolen, and it's time to take it back. A misrepresentation of Christianity has taken place. Many people around the world now think Christian faith stands for political commitments that are almost the opposite of its true meaning. How did the faith of Jesus come to be known as pro-rich, pro-war, and pro-American? What has happened? How do we get back to a historic, biblical, and genuinely evangelical faith rescued from its contemporary distortions?

That rescue operation is crucial today in the face of a social crisis that cries out for prophetic religion. The problem is clear in the political arena, where strident voices claim to represent Christians when they clearly don't speak for most of us. We hear politicians who love to say how religious they are but fail to apply the values of faith to their leadership and policies.

When we take back our faith, we will discover that faith challenges the powers that be to do justice for the poor instead of preaching a "prosperity gospel" and supporting politicians who further enrich the wealthy. We will remember that faith hates violence and tries to reduce it and exerts a fundamental presumption against war instead of justifying it in God's name. We will see that faith creates community from racial, class, and gender divisions, prefers international community over nationalist religion and that "God bless America" is found nowhere in the Bible. And we will be reminded that faith regards matters such as the sacredness of life and family bonds as so important that they should never be used as ideological symbols or mere political pawns in partisan warfare.

The media like to say, "Oh, then you must be the religious left." No, and the very question is the problem. Just because a religious right has fashioned itself for political power in one predictable ideological guise does not mean those who question this political seduction must be their opposite political counterpart.

The best public contribution of religion is precisely not to be ideologically predictable or a loyal partisan. To always raise the moral issues of human rights, for example, will challenge both left- and right-wing governments who put power above principles. Religious action is rooted in a much deeper place than "rights"-- that being the image of God in every human being.

Similarly, when the poor are defended on moral or religious grounds, it is not "class warfare," as the rich will always charge, but rather a direct response to the overwhelming focus in the Scriptures, which claims they are regularly neglected, exploited, and oppressed by wealthy elites, political rulers, and indifferent affluent populations. Those Scriptures don't simply endorse the social programs of liberals or conservatives but make clear that poverty is indeed a religious issue, and the failure of political leaders to help uplift those in poverty will be judged a moral failing.

It is because religion takes the problem of evil so seriously that it must always be suspicious of too much concentrated power -- politically and economically -- either in totalitarian regimes or in huge multinational corporations that now have more wealth and power than many governments. It is indeed our theology of evil that makes us strong proponents of both political and economic democracy -- not because people are so good but because they often are not and need clear safeguards and strong systems of checks and balances to avoid the dangerous accumulations of power and wealth.

It's why we doubt the goodness of all superpowers and the righteousness of empires in any era, especially when their claims of inspiration and success invoke theology and the name of God. Given human tendencies for self-delusion and deception, is it any wonder that hardly a religious body in the world regards the ethics of unilateral and preemptive war as "just"? Religious wisdom suggests that the more overwhelming the military might, the more dangerous its capacity for self and public deception. Powerful nations dangerously claim to "rid the world of evil" but often do enormous harm in their self-appointed vocation to do so.

The loss of religion's prophetic vocation is dangerous for any society. Who will uphold the dignity of economic and political outcasts? Who will question the self-righteousness of nations and their leaders? Who will question the recourse to violence and rush to wars, long before any last resort has been unequivocally proven? Who will not allow God's name to be used to simply justify ourselves, instead of calling us to accountability?

In an election year, the particular religiosity of a candidate, or even how devout he might be, is less important than how his religious and/or moral commitments and values shape political vision and policy commitments. Understanding the moral compass a candidate brings to his public life and how his convictions shape his political priorities is the true litmus test.

Jim Wallis is convener of Call to Renewal and executive director of Sojourners.

[Dad Ernie]

He also gave us mercy and forgiveness.

He ALSO gave us righteousness and justice and established the Government Himself.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[nebula]

"Did you know that if the church did its job there would be no need for welfare in this country?

The original church was the welfare board, they were the unemployment insurance agency, they were the soup kitchen, they were the pregnancy counseling clinic. They were all these things and more. They were the representation of Gods glory opon the earth.

Now look at us!

Oh were still the the representation of Gods glory upon the earth, but can people see it? And if they can't how will they? If we don't show them Jesus how are they going to see him?

We are the only living representatives on the face of this earth to shine the light of Gods glory through His Son. And if we don't show them they won't hear."

~Keith Green

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Nebula,

The original church was the welfare board, they were the unemployment insurance agency, they were the soup kitchen, they were the pregnancy counseling clinic. They were all these things and more. They were the representation of Gods glory opon the earth.

Now look at us!

I live in Salem, Oregon, the Capitol of one of the most liberal states in the Union, yet locally we have several organizations which actively support the poor, the hungry and the desolute. I have given to our local Union Gospel Mission for years, as do many others. It provides a shelter, clothes and food for the homeless and helps them to get "back on track" of their lives. They often get their first dose of Christianity and the Gospel right there. Portland also has a UGM.

But not only this, the churches in the area each or in combination with one another provide food and clothing and monetary support for the hungry, poor, orphan, widow and otherwise desolute. This nation is one of the biggest "givers" in the world and I'm sure it is because God has sought to prosper us for that purpose. So if you don't SEE such local "giving" in your area, you may even want to "start one up".

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

P.S. Jesus makes the statement: "The poor you shall have with you always."