nebula Posted October 22, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted October 22, 2013 My message if it will be posted is, The two witnesses are Christ and John the Babptist, both killed and resurrected, the reason for the vision of John the Baptist talking with Christ.. There is nothing in Scripture to indicate that John the Baptist was resurrected. Likewise, the description of the 2 Witnesses does not describe the ministry of Christ when He was here on earth, nor does the description of their deaths and the fate of their bodies fit with Jesus' death and resurrection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love is alive Posted October 22, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 325 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 81 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/22/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1966 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Thanks. I searched for the two witnesses using the search facility but it failed to find anything. As I am unable to post in the thread referred to above I will post my thoughts here. The two witnesses are not men they are the two theories that describe how the universe works, witnesses to Gods great wisdom, Quantum and Relativity. How can I say this well the fire that comes from their mouths is the fire of truth. The beast that comes up from the abyss is gravity and the abyss a black hole. will overpower and kill them, as I am sure most are aware Gravity is the stumbling block to joining the two theories together, its a beast through lack of understanding. These two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth simply means nobody really understands them. I am going to make a prediction based on the last part of the prophecy - Something is going to happen at CERN that will explain the severe earthquake and a tenth of the city collapsed. If this comes true I believe it will be the first time a correct prediction has been made based on biblical prophecy. I have seen people go out on a limb trying to disprove biblical scholars before, but to date, yours is the farthest I have seen. Let's look at the verses you are pointing to. Revelation 11 New King James Version (NKJV)The Two Witnesses Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.The Witnesses Killed When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.The Witnesses ResurrectedNow after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them. In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake seven thousand people were killed, and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven. The second woe is past. Behold, the third woe is coming quickly. How can Quantum and Relativity prophesy anything, be killed, lay in the streets for the world to see and exchange gifts over their death, be given life again and raise to heaven? All that is underlined clearly cannot be done to two theories, Quantum and Relativity. I encourage you to put away your science fiction and study scripture for itself. I totally agree! Study the scriptures itself, the Bible is the inspired word of God, yes it was written by men, but it was INSPIRED by God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 1-17 Posted October 23, 2013 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 24 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/25/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 23, 2013 kwikphilly you do seem really concerned about me. No man can come to the father except through me, this is a bit of a problem for me, I did not actively seek God but what happened to me was more like Paul on the road to Damascus only it happened twice, he decided to come into my life and I can only suppose when. Unlike others such as yourself my belief is not based on faith but knowledge so strictly speaking I do not need scripture to maintain my faith, as I said before I have little choice as I know any path I take will be one chosen by God, this interpretation of the Two witnesses is just a step along that path. How do you know it was God that showed you these 2 witnesses? Lets look at the Angel and the Little Scroll." The mystery of God will be accomplished", this refers to the final questions about where the universe and life came from and how. The Angel refered to is a spiritual guide or teacher provided by God, the little scroll contains the knowledge that leads to understanding the mystery of God." Take it and eat it" means learn what is written on the scroll. "It will turn your stomach sour but in your mouth it will taste sweet as honey". This means the sweet taste of success in learning what is on the scroll, sour in the stomach is the realisation that everything you thought you knew and understood is just an illusion and that nobody else will understand or accept what you have learnt. The way it is written " I took the little scroll" etc shows that only one person will be given the knowledge and is expected to spread it " You must prophesy again about many peoples, nations, languages and kings" Take it as you will I can only speak through my own experience. I am intelligent enough to know how far I am away from mainstream teachings which only reinforces what I believe, in other words its to far away from conventional not to be right. I am also aware that this part of Revelation is written in first person and seems to apply only to John who is writing it. Next question Am I claiming to be John the one who wrote Revelation, well he died nearly 2000 years ago but could I be his reincarnation well that is not for me to decide but there have been times when it felt like certain parts of Revelation were personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted October 23, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted October 23, 2013 kwikphilly you do seem really concerned about me. No man can come to the father except through me, this is a bit of a problem for me, I did not actively seek God but what happened to me was more like Paul on the road to Damascus only it happened twice, he decided to come into my life and I can only suppose when. Unlike others such as yourself my belief is not based on faith but knowledge so strictly speaking I do not need scripture to maintain my faith, 1. as I said before I have little choice as I know any path I take will be one chosen by God, this interpretation of the Two witnesses is just a step along that path. How do you know it was God that showed you these 2 witnesses? Lets look at the Angel and the Little Scroll." The mystery of God will be accomplished", this refers to the final questions about where the universe and life came from and how. The Angel refered to is a spiritual guide or teacher provided by God, the little scroll contains the knowledge that leads to understanding the mystery of God." Take it and eat it" means learn what is written on the scroll. "It will turn your stomach sour but in your mouth it will taste sweet as honey". This means the sweet taste of success in learning what is on the scroll, sour in the stomach is the realisation that everything you thought you knew and understood is just an illusion and that nobody else will understand or accept what you have learnt. The way it is written " I took the little scroll" etc shows that only one person will be given the knowledge and is expected to spread it " You must prophesy again about many peoples, nations, languages and kings" 2. Take it as you will I can only speak through my own experience. I am intelligent enough to know how far I am away from mainstream teachings which only reinforces what I believe, in other words its to far away from conventional not to be right. I am also aware that this part of Revelation is written in first person and seems to apply only to John who is writing it. 3. Next question Am I claiming to be John the one who wrote Revelation, well he died nearly 2000 years ago but could I be his reincarnation well that is not for me to decide but there have been times when it felt like certain parts of Revelation were personal. 1. Interesting. So any path you take will be one chosen by God? What if you are following after your own ideas or thoughts? Are your ideas or thoughts the same as God's? I think not.Is. 55:8-98 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts,Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,So are My ways higher than your ways,And My thoughts than your thoughts. 2. So basically because your opinion/theology differs due to your experience/intelligence it must be correct? This is circular reasoning friend. It also against Scripture as we're warned that Scripture isn't up to just any private interpretation friend. (see vs 20) 1 Peter 1:19-21 19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed,which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of Godspoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. 3. As to the claim that you could possibly be John the apostle... Reincarnation is not found in Scripture (the Bible) and is a pagan teaching - primarily found in African tribal religions, Buddhism, Hinduism, Zen, and native Indian religions. There are also cults that do not follow Biblical teachings that point to reincarnation such as Kabalah, Cathars, etc. Reincarnation is a false teaching. So in other words you are not John the apostle friend. Food for thought. Praying you see the truth here friend. God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 1-17 Posted October 24, 2013 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 24 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/25/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 24, 2013 I am well aware about reincarnation and christianity yet nearly all of you are expecting the Two witnesses to be Enoch and Elijah sent back (reincarnated). You cannot say reincarnation is false teaching while waiting for 2 prophets to be reincarnated. As for being a non-believer maybe 4 years ago but now I am probably more certain of Gods existence than almost anybody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ninhao Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 I am well aware about reincarnation and christianity yet nearly all of you are expecting the Two witnesses to be Enoch and Elijah sent back (reincarnated). You cannot say reincarnation is false teaching while waiting for 2 prophets to be reincarnated. As for being a non-believer maybe 4 years ago but now I am probably more certain of Gods existence than almost anybody else. Enoch and Elijah are portrayed as not dying in the Bible. There's no reincarnation in the Bible. There is resurrection. Gen_5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. 2Ki 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 I am well aware about reincarnation and christianity yet nearly all of you are expecting the Two witnesses to be Enoch and Elijah sent back (reincarnated). You cannot say reincarnation is false teaching while waiting for 2 prophets to be reincarnated. As for being a non-believer maybe 4 years ago but now I am probably more certain of Gods existence than almost anybody else. That's not what reincarnation is. My spirit is mine. It's not something that's been passed along from person to person. Reincarnation occurs when the host body dies, releasing the spirit to move on to another body. As ninhao said, Enoch and Elijah didn't die. If they did die and were reincarnated, they would come back as someone else. And...... That non-believer comment was uncalled for and I apologize. I removed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted October 24, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,260 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,988 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted October 24, 2013 we do not know who these two are...... could be me and enoob for all any of us know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 1-17 Posted October 25, 2013 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 24 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/25/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 25, 2013 Maybe I should have said spirit of John resurrected rather than reincarnated poor choice of words on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted October 25, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Maybe I should have said spirit of John resurrected rather than reincarnated poor choice of words on my part. By what Scripture do you justify that a person's spirit can be resurrected into a new person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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