Guest DRS81 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 If the book of Revelation was written about what happened in the 1st century, then why do some proclaim this book is about the future in which some scripture hasn't happened yet. If these things were written in the 1st century, all the persecution, if it was that bad back then..then why isn't the world over by now. For example, when Revelation says "the time is near". The time was near in the "1st century" with the battle of Rome. Or does the first half of Revelation talk about the 1st century and the other half about the second coming of Christ? I just got done watching 'The Beast Revelation Identified' DVD. It was really good and very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DRS81 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I just wrote this to a good friend of mine (in Christ) who lives in NJ. Check it out... I just got done watching a dvd about the book of revelation. I have questions. This book was written in the first century so why do some proclaim it is speaking about future prophecy (we in 2013) are waiting to see? This dvd says that satan is bound up RIGHT NOW, and that if we tell him to flee he will. So they're saying in the dvd that satan WASN'T bound up in the first century? When exactly was satan bound up, and if he's bound up why is he allowed to still tempt us? If he's bound up, is satan still seeking whom he may devour. Or was he seeking whom to devour in the first century only? If satan is bound up then why is there so many wars and famine and distress now?? Also, why is the world still here 21 centuries later if the persecution against christians was that bad back in the first century. Where exactly are we biblically or (mentally) in 2013 if many things in Revelation already came to pass and satan is bound up. Why are we still here? Why is life still happening? I mean, my God 21 centuries later??!!! What is Jesus waiting for?? Why not come now?? For example, Jesus could of simply came in the 17th century and have ended existence there. Think about it, if God knew me even before I was born then why create me in mothers womb in the first place. Why not end life in the 17th century and have the rest of his children live out their lives in heaven and the new earth. Why keep the pain going on earth? Why risk MORE people going to hell? What's God's purpose or plan for us left on this earth in the 21st century? What does the Bible say about the 21st century if it was written way back when. Take your time answering. - David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Different people have different theories. See it as past, does not seem to work in my opinion, but that does not mean that there are not elements of it that were in the past. It is entirely posible to have the same verses, operate in the past as pictures or types, of what may happen in the furture. There are instructions to the 7 churches of Asia, I see no reason why those cannot have been to the churches in John's day, as well to churches throughout history. Some even hold that those chuches represent different time in history since Revelation was penned. I wouldn't entirely rule out that possibility, but I surely would not limit it to that. I tend to hold that the events are past, present, and future, with the bulk of it pertaining to the future. Ask 100 people about it, you will likely get 50 semi-confident answers, and 50 "I don't knows". I am mostly in the last camp. The parts that predict a future world leader, do not at all seem to be fulfilled in the past, so I think they have to be future, either that or the symbolism is so difficult, that I would just have to give up trying to understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bible_Gazer Posted October 17, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 450 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 152 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/05/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted October 17, 2013 Another view as Omeganman says Revelation is part = past - present - future The time is near = must be for the early church, things they were facing - Even John was in tribulation The future does not exist, by faith we know it will, God still has a plan that he is following. He is still interested in saving more people, but who they all are to be saved is up to the individuals by choice. God still trying to find a true people, how they choose who they will follow. = example - Pharaoh, Nebuchadnezzar, Rome, The Beast, The devil or God Revelation is given to his saints to warn about the church and the world powers.(The falling and rising) Yet Revelation shows the blessing to those who will be overcomers. Seem like pressure or persecutions changes people direction. God seem to test our faithfulness to stand for him. He told most of the seven churches to repent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDAinFLA Posted October 17, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 264 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/07/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted October 17, 2013 The Book of Revelation is not only about what happend in the first century, While there are different views of Revelation the symbolism can be viewed (as others have already said) past, present, and futuristic. For example the 7 Churches of Revelation 2 & 3 talk about 7 literal churches. A lot of Bible scholars believe that while these messages were for the literal churches of that day, that it was a dual prophecy for 7 periods that the Christian would go through. The reason (I believe) why Jesus has not come back is there is stil a work to do for Christ in the heavenly sanctuary. Once he finishes the work of judgment, he will then come back to get his people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlessedByTheBest Posted October 17, 2013 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 631 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 119 Days Won: 2 Joined: 10/24/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted October 17, 2013 the Revelation of Jesus Christ is perpetual, past present and future, eternal. He who is Alpha and Omega has no beginning or end. The reason (I believe) why Jesus has not come back is there is still a work to do for Christ in the heavenly sanctuary. Once he finishes the work of judgment, he will then come back to get his people. this sounds extra-biblical. why would you believe this? what work? what judgement? chapter and verse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted October 17, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,134 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,859 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted October 17, 2013 the Revelation of Jesus Christ is perpetual, past present and future, eternal. He who is Alpha and Omega has no beginning or end. The reason (I believe) why Jesus has not come back is there is still a work to do for Christ in the heavenly sanctuary. Once he finishes the work of judgment, he will then come back to get his people. this sounds extra-biblical. why would you believe this? what work? what judgement? chapter and verse? mt brother in law isn't a believer...... there is work to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlessedByTheBest Posted October 17, 2013 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 631 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 119 Days Won: 2 Joined: 10/24/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted October 17, 2013 the Revelation of Jesus Christ is perpetual, past present and future, eternal. He who is Alpha and Omega has no beginning or end. The reason (I believe) why Jesus has not come back is there is still a work to do for Christ in the heavenly sanctuary. Once he finishes the work of judgment, he will then come back to get his people. this sounds extra-biblical. why would you believe this? what work? what judgement? chapter and verse? mt brother in law isn't a believer...... there is work to be done. aah yes brother other. that kind of work isn't judgement though, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted October 17, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,134 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,859 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted October 17, 2013 the Revelation of Jesus Christ is perpetual, past present and future, eternal. He who is Alpha and Omega has no beginning or end. The reason (I believe) why Jesus has not come back is there is still a work to do for Christ in the heavenly sanctuary. Once he finishes the work of judgment, he will then come back to get his people. this sounds extra-biblical. why would you believe this? what work? what judgement? chapter and verse? mt brother in law isn't a believer...... there is work to be done. aah yes brother other. that kind of work isn't judgement though, right? not in that sense unless there is something about mt brother in law I'm not familiar with. The judgment that SDA is speaking of would just be speculation on my part, so I will let him answer that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babbler Posted October 17, 2013 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 72 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 550 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 82 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/08/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted October 17, 2013 I understand the teaching errors concerning both Daniel and Revelation, because I was taught them. To cover the topic takes the length of a book. I'll keep it short. Daniel and Revelation are of the style known as apocalyptic literature which were written between 200 BC and 200 AD. There are other Jewish apocalypses, but deemed non-canonical (approved by a church body): the three books of Enoch, the Second Book of Esdras, the apocalypse of Baruch, and the Ascension of Isaiah. Found amongst the Dead Sea Scrolls were the Christian apocalypses of Peter, of Thomas, and the Shepherd of Hermas. Apocalypses were political manifestos written during times of oppressive regimes. Apocalyptic literatures' intention is to inspire the believer to stand upright and not forsake his or her faith, even unto death. It says, that in the end, God will give his rewards to the believer and judge the individuals and nations that persecuted them. They were written in a time of religious persecution. The message to the church was, "to lose ones life was to save ones life." The believer is not to deny the LORD even unto death. Daniel was written in 164 BC. It was the first religious persecution in history. To be caught reading the Torah was to be killed, to circumcise their son was a death sentence. Antiochus IV is the little horn who ruled from 175-164 BC. In Daniel 9, "After two weeks an anointed shall be cut down when he does not possess the city." Onias III, the high priest was in exile to Egypt, and "did not possess the city," and was assassinated by Menelaus, "cut down." Many confuse this anointed one with Christ. Some bibles even change the translation of "an anointed" to Messiah," which is an interpretation and not a translation. Antiochus made agreements with the Jews ("many") that allied with him. Half the week was in 167 to 165 when Antiochus desecrated the temple with his abomination of desolation by placing an inscription above the temple, dedicating it to Zeus. Like the Book of Daniel, Revelation was composed during a period of persecution. Revelation reflects the persecution during Nero's reign (37-68 AD) and during Domitian's reign (81-96 AD). Using gematria the symbolic number 666 is the number of Qsr Nrwn, the Hebrew for Nero. Nero attacked the Church in 64-65. He ordered Christians to be crucified, covered with tar, and then set on fire to illuminate the night. He did this in a sick artistic fashion--hence the term 'Roman Candle.' He put to death the "two witnesses" Paul and Peter. For John, Caesar Neron is evil, the definitive Antichrist. In Daniel, the beast is the Greeks persecuting God's people, for John it is the Roman Empire (Babylon, the Great Harlot). There are two separate writings of Revelation, merged to form the present book. The first apocalypse occurred in the time of Nero, and its writings cover chapters 4-11, preceded by the introduction. During the apocalypse of Domitian (thirty years later) the rest of Revelation (chapters 12-22) were composed, tying it in with the previous version and at the same time introducing the seven letters to the churches. Revelation "depicts the cosmic struggle between God and Satan, as it plays out upon the state of human history."1 Rome is Satan's agent persecuting Christ's nation of priests. Roman law required citizens to worship the emperor and the state. Christians had to choose: the Lamb or the Emperor. It was the choice of accepting the mark of the beast or being sealed to Christ. John is warning Christians not to be tempted into syncretism or apostasy. They cannot serve two lords. Revelation warns the church not to turn its back on God, or it will meet a catastrophic end. The message is uncomplicated: in the end, nothing will escape God's judgment! Revelation assures those that remain faithful, during this time of persecution, that they will participate in the glory of the "wedding feast" of the Lamb. 1Kim Riddlebargher, Sermons on Revelation, 2 Source: editor, William R. Farmer, The International Bible Commentary, (The Liturgical Press, Collegeville, Minnesota 1998) ISBN 0-8146-2454-5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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