Thousand year reign. Who is there?

[OakWood]

 

I've just been reading Revelation again as I am a bit rusty on it. Something struck me about Revelation 20 which suggests to me that only certain people will be on Earth for the thousand year reign.

 

Reading Revelation 20:4-5

 

I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.This is the first resurrection.

 

 

Now this suggests to me that only those who go through the Tribulation will live through the thousand year reign. Everyone else will have to wait until the thousand years are over and then they will be resurrected and be judged.

 

If you're a pre-tribber then you're not expecting to be there for the Tribulation so you won't be one of those beheaded by the Beast, therefore you won't be part of the first resurrection, so you can't be reigning with Christ during the thousand year period. You therefore expect to be part of the second resurrection where you will be judged according to your deeds.

 

If you're a post-tribber then you can expect to be one of those who reigns with Christ, but any Christian who died before then can expect to be part of the second resurrection and judged accordingly.

 

Am I missing something here?

 

WW

 

I will highlight in red from above.  but any Christian who died before then can expect to be part of the second resurrection and judged accordingly.

 

The Second Resurrection is for the unjust, not the just.  So are you saying that ALL Believers who have died over the past 2000 years will be part of the Second Resurrection, but only those who go through the 70th Week will be of the First Resurrection.  I think you need to rephrase or qualify your statement above.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 

I'm not saying anything Marv. I'm just interpreting what was written, but I don't believe it myself. That' s why I asked - was I missing something?

[SDAinFLA]

I'm not sure what type of "triber" I am but my thoughts are a little different. I actually believe that the only person that will be here is the devil (and probably his angels too).

 

The non believers will die at the return of Christ

The believers will be raptured when Christ comes back and he will take them to heaven for 1000 years

 

So the first resurrection is only for the righteous dead.

The second resurrection is only for the wicked dead.

[Hindsfeet]

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (They being Collectively)

 

Who is 'they' of the first instance?

 

When reading the beginning of the previous chapter 19:1-10  - the subject matter is of the Bride.

 

1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and gre

7

Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9

And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

 

This is my interpretation.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, everyone.

 

Look, it's really quite simple. One absolutely MUST have a good view of what to expect in the Millennium. It's NOT going to be the "time of peace" that everyone is expecting. It IS characterized by that "rod of iron":

 

 

Psalm 2:1-12

1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD (YHWH), and against his Anointed, saying,

3 "Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us."

4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord (Adonai) shall have them in derision.

5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6 "Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7 I will declare the decree: 'the LORD (YHWH) hath said unto me, <<Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.>>'

10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

11 Serve the LORD (YHWH) with fear, and rejoice with trembling!

12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him!"

KJV (God the Father in both shades of purple, the Son of God in red.)

 

 

1 Corinthians 15:20-28

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

KJV

 

Remember that 1 Cor. 15:20-28 is part of Paul's treatise on the resurrection. Therefore, his emphasis is not on the timing of the events but on the order of the recipients of the various resurrections. Just the same, the order is decipherable:

 

1. The Messiah (Christ) Himself was the firstfruits of the resurrection in the first century.

2. The next group that will be resurrected are His own when He comes again.

3. The final group to be resurrected will be resurrected at the end, which is when He will deliver up the Kingdom to God His Father.

 

This tells us that His Kingdom begins when He comes again and will last at least until He delivers up the Kingdom to God His Father. During the time that He is reigning, He will be  putting down all rule and all authority and all power. THIS is what is going on during His Kingdom! When He has subdued everyone else, the last thing that He subdues is death itself. This corresponds to the Great White Throne Judgment (GWTJ) in Revelation 20:7-15, particularly verse 14.

 

(Actually, we learn from Gavri'el [Gabriel] in Luke 1:30-33 that Yeshua` will reign over the house of Ya`aqov [Jacob] forever.)

 

Therefore, the Millennium will be a time of the Messiah's great conquest as He becomes the "King of kings and Lord of lords," the world Emperor. The "time of peace" doesn't begin until God the Father is reigning forever after the creation of the New Heaven (the New Sky) and the New Earth. That doesn't occur until Revelation 21:1, AFTER the GWTJ. In this passage within 1 Corinthians 15, it doesn't begin until the Son has made Himself subject to God His Father and God the Father becomes "all in all."

 

Furthermore, one of the WORST mistakes that preachers today make is to suggest that the parables of Matthew 13 are about this current "church age." They are NOT! They are about the KINGDOM, which doesn't begin until the Messiah returns. Therefore, most of these parables (with the exception of the first parable) are about the time AFTER the Messiah returns and before He hands the Kingdom over to His Father. Consider the parable of the wheat and the tares, for example:

 

 

Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43

24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

...

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

38 The field is the world (Greek: kosmos = the whole "world-system," not the "earth"); the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world (Greek: aioonos = age); and the reapers are the angels.

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world (Greek: aioonos = age).

41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

KJV

 

So, Yeshua` explains several of the elements of this parable explicitly:

 

 

He that soweth the good seed = the Son of man (Yeshua` the Messiah Himself);

The field = the world (Greek: kosmos = the whole "world-system," not the "earth");

The good seed = the children of the kingdom;

The tares = the children of the wicked one;

The enemy that sowed them = the devil;

The harvest = the end of the world (Greek: aioonos = age); and

The reapers = the angels.

 

Notice that it is not until the END of the age (the current age sandwiched between the Flood and the Fire, 2 Peter 3:3-13), the Millennium being the last 1,000 years of that age, that the "tares" are gathered out of the Messiah's Kingdom and burned. This also corresponds to the GWTJ. Afterward, the "wheat" are gathered into the "barn" of their Father's Kingdom, and this portion corresponds to the New Heaven (the New Sky) and the New Earth (the New Ground) of Revelation 21. (The "barn" could even represent the New Jerusalem. Not saying that it DOES, only that it COULD.)

[Micheal Westin]

The only concerns I have with the pre-trib belief is when things start getting really chaotic, many will become disillusioned and fall away.

when your told endlessly Jesus comes before the antichrist, guess who most of the church will follow, the guy who comes first saying " I am God"

[other one]

 

The only concerns I have with the pre-trib belief is when things start getting really chaotic, many will become disillusioned and fall away.

when your told endlessly Jesus comes before the antichrist, guess who most of the church will follow, the guy who comes first saying " I am God"

 

 

the first dude who brings fire from heaven that claims to be God isn't on our side

[Montana Marv]

Roy

 

Amazing, I agree to some of what you posted above.  There will be peace, but it will be people doing lip service (pseudo peace).  For the wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will down with the goat. (Isa 11:6-9).    The the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.  If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, they will have no rain.  (Zech 14:16,17)  So there will be people or nations who do not fully follow what Christ wants.

 

So here we see that it is the survivors from all the nations who attacked Jerusalem (those who did not die at Armageddon) that are subjects to Christ ruling with a rod of iron.  A lot of people who worshiped demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood (Rev  9:20).  These people come into the 1000 years, this is why Christ must rule with a rod of iron.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[other one]

Roy

 

Amazing, I agree to some of what you posted above.  There will be peace, but it will be people doing lip service (pseudo peace).  For the wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will down with the goat. (Isa 11:6-9).    The the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.  If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, they will have no rain.  (Zech 14:16,17)  So there will be people or nations who do not fully follow what Christ wants.

 

So here we see that it is the survivors from all the nations who attacked Jerusalem (those who did not die at Armageddon) that are subjects to Christ ruling with a rod of iron.  A lot of people who worshiped demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood (Rev  9:20).  These people come into the 1000 years, this is why Christ must rule with a rod of iron.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

hummm,  strangely, i don't think i ever even thought about that Marv.  It does make sense.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, other one.

 

 

Roy

 

Amazing, I agree to some of what you posted above.  There will be peace, but it will be people doing lip service (pseudo peace).  For the wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will down with the goat. (Isa 11:6-9).    The the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.  If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, they will have no rain.  (Zech 14:16,17)  So there will be people or nations who do not fully follow what Christ wants.

 

So here we see that it is the survivors from all the nations who attacked Jerusalem (those who did not die at Armageddon) that are subjects to Christ ruling with a rod of iron.  A lot of people who worshiped demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood (Rev  9:20).  These people come into the 1000 years, this is why Christ must rule with a rod of iron.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

hummm,  strangely, i don't think i ever even thought about that Marv.  It does make sense.

 

 

Yes, Marv is right. It will be a true peace, however, not a pseudo-peace, although I understand what Marv is saying. What makes him right is that it will be an UNWILLING BUT FORCED peace, and "lip service" will certainly have a part in that. Not that they could deceive the King, however.

 

Hey, whatever works, they SHALL bow the knee to the King of kings, whether they want to - WILL to - or not! Some will welcome Him; many will not.

 

Those who welcome Him (and have treated His people well) will be accepted as either new members of His Kingdom or their countries will be accepted as tributary and contributory states into His Kingdom.

 

Those who don't welcome Him will be subdued and become vassal states to His nation, sooner or later. They SHALL knuckle under, one way or another!

 

This is how the other parables of Matthew 13 fit in:

 

The parable of the grain of mustard seed (Matthew 13:31-32) only has the one element defined: the grain of mustard seed = the Kingdom of heaven, or the Kingdom from the sky. It is the Kingdom from the sky because it comes with the King from the sky! You can't truly have the Kingdom without the presence of the King. The ACTION of the parable is the growth of the grain of mustard seed, described as "one of the smallest of seeds" becoming one of the greatest of herbs. We are not told what the birds of the air represent, neither are we told what the branches represent. However, one can deduce that the branches of the tree-like herb would be portions of the Kingdom, and the birds of the air, being inhabitants of the tree-like herb, might represent immigrants - would-be inhabitants of the Kingdom coming from all over.

 

This parable is talking about the growth of the Kingdom throughout its existence. It will start out tiny as far as nations go, but it will grow until it's the largest of nations!

 

The parable of the leaven (Matthew 13:33) is similar. Again, we're only told what the "leaven" means, and it does NOT mean "a type of sin!" Yeshua` (Jesus) said that the KINGDOM was like leaven! The leavening agent, such as yeast, is what the Kingdom is like: It will be hidden among "three measures of meal" or 3 sata (in Greek) = 3 ce'aiym (in Hebrew) = 1 ephah (in Hebrew) of flour, an ephah being about 36.444 L (liters) of dry measurement, which is very close to a British imperial bushel (36.38 L) and slightly larger than a U.S. bushel (35.24 L). We are not told what the "three measures of meal" means although I suspect that it was just the Greek way of saying an "ephah" for the Jewish population. We are not told what the "three measures of meal" represents, nor are we told who the woman represents. These elements, undefined by the Master, only serve to bring out the ACTION in the parable:

 

The leavening agent (Greek: zumee = ferment) is added to the bread dough, and it's not even visible once mixed in; however, in about an hour (or longer if some other leavening agent is used), it is nearly doubled in size! This parable of the proofing is about the INFLUENCE of the Kingdom. The Kingdom starts out rather insignificant in the world political scene, but before you know it, it affects the whole batch!

 

The parable about the treasure hidden in a field (Matthew 13:44), again, has only one defined element: The treasure = the Kingdom from the sky. The meaning of the parable, then, is to be found in the ACTIONS found in the parable - the VERBS. There are four actions listed:

 

1. A man finds the treasure

2. He re-hides the treasure

3. He sells all that he has

4. He buys the field containing the treasure

 

This is about investment, and how a person might choose to keep his information secret until he has benefitted from that information to minimize his competition. This might be a bit of stereotyping, but He was talking to Jews, after all!

 

 

Suppose you knew of a seemingly worthless tract of land. Then, you discovered that there might be a huge oil field under that land. What would the wise investor do? He would nonchalantly inquire about the land from the current owner and get a price. Once he found out how much the owner wanted for the land, he would raise the capital necessary for the purchase. He CERTAINLY wouldn't tell the owner what he had found! He might haggle on the price a bit to throw off the owner, but he would do everything he could to secure the land and the mineral rights under that land as soon as possible. This is how the wise investor will see the Kingdom; it will be a "diamond in the rough" to the wise investor. Doing everything possible, the wise investor, recognizing the potential from the Kingdom, will invest in the Kingdom for his "piece of the pie."

 

The sixth parable, the parable of the MERCHANT MAN (not the "pearl of great price", Matthew 13:45-46), is the flip side of the parable of the treasure: This parable calls the Kingdom the merchant! It, too, has only one noun element: The Kingdom = the merchant man seeking goodly pearls. Again, the message of the parable is to be found in the ACTIONS.

 

The Merchant is seeking valuable pearls.

The Merchant finds one flawless, very valuable pearl.

The Merchant sells all He owns.

The Merchant buys the flawless pearl.

 

The King Himself - the Heart of the Kingdom - will be a great businessman, able to "bet the farm," so to speak, to turn a profit. The pearls, too, are undefined in the parable. They could simply be PEARLS, or ANY such valuables! The King will have more wisdom than Shlomo (Solomon). Indeed, the Scriptures have already told us that:

 

 

Matthew 12:42

42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

KJV

    

Luke 11:31

31 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

KJV

 

The seventh parable, like the second, the parable of the seining net (Matthew 13:47-50), is about the END of the first millennium of the Kingdom: Here, the elements are more well defined:

 

The Kingdom from the sky = the Net

The Sea remains undefined

They (the fishermen) = the angels

The good (good for food; kosher; "whatever has fins and scales" - Leviticus 11:9-12) creatures = the just or the justified people

The bad (bad for food; unclean; "whatever does not have fins or scales") creatures = the wicked

 

Yeshua` Himself used the element definitions to substitute them into the parable in Matthew 13:49-50:

 

"The angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

 

When shall this happen?

 

Yeshua said in verse 49 that it would happen at the consummation or conclusion of the age, and because the wording is identical to the parable of the wheat and tares, that will be at the end of the Kingdom of the Son of man and before the Kingdom of the Father.

 

Only the first parable, the parable of the sower, is about the present before the coming of the King and His Kingdom. However, this parable is NOT about what Christians call "salvation" or rather "justification by God." That's the WRONG MESSAGE in this case. It is about the message of the KINGDOM! The elements of the parable are ...

 

The seed = the word of (the message about) the Kingdom

Ground = the heart or core of the thoughts of the individual who hears

Birds = the wicked one

Sunscortch = tribulation or persecution (harassment or slaughter or massacre)

Thorns = the care of this world and the deceitfulness of riches

 

Yeshua`s interpretation was that one type of person would hear the subject of the Kingdom and wouldn't understand it. Then, the wicked one would come and snatch it away before he has time to ponder on what he heard. He forgets the message before it has time to sink in.

 

The second type of person will hear the message about the Kingdom, understand it, and zealously accept it immediately. However, he has no foundation and when harassment and massacre come because of the message, immediately he turns back. This is the fair-weather Zionist.

 

The third type of person will hear the message about the Kingdom, understand it, and accept it; however, because it involves his personal wealth and affluence, the message is throttled, and he will never produce any fruit. He likes the IDEA of a coming Kingdom, but don't ask him to DO anything to support it!

 

The fourth type of person will hear the message about the Kingdom, understand it, accept it, and support it. He will bear fruit in varying degrees. What is the fruit? How about the pleasure that comes from knowing the blessings of the Kingdom and which produces MORE SEED? That is, the fruit encourages the hearer to spread the message himself.