Openly Curious Posted January 12, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 12, 2014 Hi ladykay, It is hard for us to understand suffering in general no matter what form it may come in. But we can be assured that if "we" love God in spirit and in truth then God will work all things out for our good in the long run if we remain faithful and steadfast. Trials and tribulations (troubles) will come into our lives in a variety of ways and we cannot as Christians escape this fact. But what we must do is to submit our own will over to the will of God and trust that he is working things out for our good despite any suffering we are having to endure. Not everyone in this life has surrendered their will to the Lordship of Christ. I agree with some of the others in the thread that the story of Joseph in the book of Genesis is a great encouragement in times of being wronged by others. I personally have read the story so many times I can't even count so I would encourage you to read and draw strength and encouragement from the word of God as the word will build up your faith keeping you strong. blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-seeker Posted January 13, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 589 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/06/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 13, 2014 Whenever things go wrong in my life, and I tell other Christians about it. They tell me that God is in control of things. But if we have free will, how is God in control of everything? People hurt other people and when we ask why did God allow this to happen, they say that people have free will. If I pray to God to keep someone from hurting me, how can that prayer be answered without God taking away the free will from the person I am praying to be protected from? I'm kind of confused. On the emotional level (which is probably the more important) there is no simple answer.......other than to keep praying and, paraphrasing Paul, recalling that the miseries of this world are not worth comparing to the glory that awaits us in the resurrected life to come. That (and not a bunch of theodicies explaining and even explaining away evil) is the real answer. And that even in this world, God is able to feed us a bit of heaven from time to time: able to bring to miseries a temporary relief, promising, like appetizers, the full banquet to come. And in this time period we must keep our appetites healthy for the main the course. But behind this emotional answer rests a more philosophical answer, which is less important, but may still help. As finite beings endowed with freewill we have the awkward position of resting between two stools--that of sheer determinism, and that of sheer indeterminism. Neither are entirely correct as to our actual relationship with the infinite Lord. Determinism emphasizes one side of the coin (all is under God's control). When we only focus on that side of the coin, it leads to terrible things like "so God made Adam and Eve sin? Or God desired that my child be still-born?" Or even "well if I killed that man it was God's will." When we focus on the freewill part, it too misses the mark. We conclude that prayers are not answered, miracles are impossible, and that we are "ON OUR OWN". Indeed, if we stress this side of the coin to it is most logical conclusion, we should have to say that it will be an accident if heaven is inhabited at all: for God's hands will have been tied behind His own back as to each sinner, so that it could have easily been that NO ONE repented and yielded to His sovereignty: just as it is quite possible that the first "break" in billiards sends no balls to a pocket. Somewhere in between these two extremes rests the real situation, which we are incapable of comprehending......hence we return to the first point made above. Keep praying. Keep striving for righteousness. clb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandyU Posted January 20, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 64 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/13/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 20, 2014 God wants us to love Him by choice, not because we are programed to love Him. He can not make every wrong a right if we are to still have free will. We have to be able to choose evil, non-love, and be able to rebel against God if we have the power to choose good, love and choose Gods will. Men and angels have a free will and will effect everyones life. God has the power to intervene at anytime but he limits himself so he doesn't break his own law of giving us a free will. He does intervene though. Many of my prayers have been answered, but not all, We all live in a world were evil powers control this world. Most of us have suffered from it. But God suffers with us, feels are pain. He suffered on the cross. Again allowing a human to drive a nail into him. He allows us to break his will. Because he wants us to love him freely and not as robots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted January 20, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I didn't say there is no free will, I just was commenting on how it seems to come at all costs. If we did not have free will, perhaps the world would be a utopia, individuals only doing what God wants. Like what? Get out of bed at X time. Eat X healthy breakfast, drive X model of car to X type of work, do X amount of hours work remembering to to take X amount of break time. On weekend do X activity for X long. On Sunday, or if God decides it's not Sunday, do nothing. Don't read your bible, you don't need a bible, God is in control, so why bother? Get cancer (even though you don't smoke, drink, take drugs, eat badly, or any other reason), blame God, child gets run over by a bus on way to the school God appointed, by bus driver God appointed, blame God Have you thought this free will thing through? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandyU Posted January 20, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 64 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/13/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 20, 2014 God gave us free will so we can freely love him as he loves us. He suffered for us and he is going to make everything good. I know its not easy, I have had bad kidneys sense I was three years old. I have had many medical problems. My friend lost her only two children by a drunk driver. But there is hope on the cross, evil has lost the battle. God isn't doing the evil, he is fighting against it. God loves us and greaves with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeedYouLord Posted January 20, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 601 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 196 Days Won: 3 Joined: 04/27/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted January 20, 2014 Much love to you, LadyKay... It's amazing how and when God enlightens us to His Truths...He does allow some of us to live through many things-this is just my testimony...I suppose it is so that when we do eventually choose Him and His Way...He can use what we thought was horrible and bad-all those things That He Can Certainly Turn Around For Good...Of course, at the time, I didn't want to hear that-when I was going through my bad stuff with no hope of it ever changing...(Not saying that I have always made the right decisions-but I've never lived the same horror twice...the circumstances have always changed) but I didn't want to hear that God was going to use it one day...because at the time without the correct understanding-I looked at it like God just loved me being in horribleness so that He could use it...(there are more Truths about this part) but the fact remains He does and Has used it...In some cases to save another person's life...Only after I came to a faith IN HIM...Only after He indwelled me mightily For His Glory...I Thank God For Free Will...or else I would be dead without Him... Just to see it in real time...Hahaha...and the understanding that comes...When I was without God-I was living with a man not married-and we drank every night...and because I so loved this man (he never ever told me he loved me-never) I decided that I had to be totally honest with him so that he would know me...and not knowing that I was living Ephesians 2:1-10 at that very moment...eventually in drunken stupors he used everything I told him against me...If there was an awful human being that lived on this planet it was me-according to him...I believed his lies for a very long time...notice he never ever told me any of his past-never...Ephesians 2 Is my Truth...and is what has happened to me...By faith I believe!!! I made some very hard choices for this above situation to change-mainly a belief that God loved me like He said in His Word...I've always wanted to do the right things...That meant staying with somebody forever...I just got everything out of order...Belief in God...Changed by Him...Relationship with God...Spend much time with God...Know Him...Wait for person to marry and live with that has-belief in God-that has been changed by Him...that has a relationship with God and spends much time with God...Knows Him...It's really quite simple...But did I do this? Nope...I couldn't see it-didn't know to do it... Now...this has helped me to understand what is happening... Adam did lose "God's perfection that we were to all live in"...and when he did...he lost it for all of us...which had to be-because sin separates us from God... Satan was given permission, Ephesians 2:2-3...to rule on the earth... Romans 5:19 describes: through (A man), (Eph. 2: 2-3) with the spirit of the prince of the power of the air; the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, Adam's disobedience-many were made sinners and through (A Man), with The Holy Spirit, Jesus' Obedience-many will be made righteous... So we are born into sin...into "the world"...then hopefully-at some point-we hear about Jesus...somebody please bring me Hope In Jesus...and so now we have free will to choose...Life or Death...but sin is so good for a while...but then it tries to steal, kill and destroy...and will succeed unless we choose differently...and stop believing the lies...And Come To The Way, The Truth and The Life... This is what I've decided...I will read God's Word for myself and pray That He Will Enlighten His Word In me...and that He will Light my Path...and lead me and guide me where He would have me go...I don't believe what everyone says...but I can pray and ask God to Reveal His Truth-to enlightened the part He gives me...He will enlighten it at the exact right time... Let us Walk In The Light...Love you in Him...NeedYouLord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted January 20, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,244 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,658 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted January 20, 2014 I know this post is exceedingly long, but if anyone reads the whole thing, they will definitely be blessed in it. The biggest problem that I have with word of faith theology is that I am not God, nor am I a little god. It is my choice to walk in obedience to Him as I hear His voice and walk in the Spirit. This is how Jesus walked in obedience to the Father and said and did only what He heard and saw the Father say and do. Only I do so much more imperfectly even when I do my best to see and hear correctly. Yes, I love His great and precious promises. He also promised us that those who seek to live Godly lives in Christ Jesus shall be persecuted, and that we would be treated the same way Jesus was treated, and He suffered many things: tauntings, ridicule, abandonment by friends, false accusations and unfair illegal trial, beatings, etc. Paul also did not live in wealth and prosperity, but learned how to be content in all circumstances, to be abased and to abound, because there is much godliness in contentment. Nor did Paul live in perfect health but he kept Luke the physician handy to treat his many beatings. Nor did God heal his eyes. He also talked about how we must suffer with Christ so that we might know the power of the resurrection. So I continue to ask God to be glorified in our circumstances and to use even them to save souls and accomplish His will. And I continue to watch my word of faith friends become disheartened when God does not jump through their hoops and provide for them a perfect triumphant life. They suffered much when their pastors told them they did not have enough faith and that is why God did not perform. We need to recognize that He is Sovereign and we need to jump through His hoops. When I was told to practice positive confession and confess that I was healed even though I was still in great pain, , (knowing that it had been accomplished in eternity), I did obey and confessed the healing. But as I walked home from the meeting God convicted me of lying because as in a court, I can only witness to the things that I have seen and heard in my time. So I repented and confessed my lie. A few hours later God did heal my neck, but only because I had truly seen the error of the lie I had been taught at that meeting. So, friend, that is how I learned that it was the word of faith pastors that had taught God's word less correctly. Satan also takes the truth of God's Word and twists it a bit or uses it to tempt us as in the temptations of Christ. Blessings, Willa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandyU Posted January 20, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 64 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/13/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 20, 2014 God does say yes to some of our prayers. He says no to some also. It may seem arbitrary; but there are many things happening in the creation and cosmos we are too finite to understand. God is understandable and loving, Because our picture of God is Jesus. But it is hard to understand all of creation with all the decisions free human and angels make. God created the world so that we can choose to follow and love him, or not. So he choose to have his power limmited. God does listen to our prayers and does sometimes intervene for our good. But not to the point of taking our free will away. Life is not always easy. But I thank God he is a good God that fights evil and doesn't cause the evil. It is sometimes very hard to understand some of the horrible things that go on in the world that God has the power to change; but holds back. I have learned to be thankful for my free will, and mostly for the future God bought me on the cross. I have hope in Jesus Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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