Reasons Why God Allows Suffering?

[Guest DRS81]

God may send adveristy to build us up, but never sends stuff that will destroy us.

 

Good post my friend. I can agree with that, we do live in a broken and fallen world indeed.

 

Give me a good example of a kind of adveristy that God may use on us (that doesn't destroy), that is NOT from the devil..

 

the difference between how God works and how the devil works.

 

- DRS81

[Guest shiloh357]

 

God may send adveristy to build us up, but never sends stuff that will destroy us.

 

Good post my friend. I can agree with that, we do live in a broken and fallen world indeed.

 

Give me a good example of a kind of adveristy that God may use on us (that doesn't destroy), that is NOT from the devil..

 

the difference between how God works and how the devil works.

 

- DRS81

 

God can "use" any kind of adversity even stuff that is from the devil.   I am saying that God doesn't SEND things that destroy you like causing an infant to die of SIDS, or causing your spouse to contract a terminal illness.  He will not cause your spouse to step out on you. God will never break your heart in the process of building you up.

 

Sometimes, when we are not faithful to God in the area of our finances, he takes things away from us.  When we allow worldly and fleshly desires to over ride our Christian walk, sometimes God will step in and cause us to lose favor in our endeavors, suddenly it seems that everything we do meets with failure, and we can't make ends meet, and ever door is closed. 

 

When we allow a worldly pleasure that in any other context is perfectly fine for a Christian to engage in, when we allow it to eat up our time and keep us from serving the Lord, He can and often does cause it to be a burden more of a curse than a blessing.

 

The Lord can also send very strong conviction that won't give you a moment's peace, as well.   God doesn't have to destroy us to get our attention.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

Shiloh makes an interesting point (forgive me if I misinterpret brother).

 

Suffering revealed the character in Joseph, more than building it?

 

But Paul tells us,

 

Rom 5:3  More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 

Rom 5:4  and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 

Rom 5:5  and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. 

 

I would say that both are true. Suffering reveals character and also builds it.

 

Both are true, but in the story of Joseph, we see early on that Joseph was a man of integrity and faith.   The story seems to indicate that Joseph stood out almost immediately amongst the other slaves and his character shown through  long before he was a prisoner.  He didn't suffer too much as a slave. He was in charge of all of Potiphar's affairs.

[GoldenEagle]

 

What are your thoughts?

 

God bless,

GE

 

I can agree with you that God is with us through suffering, but what about for nonbelievers. For example, read below.....

 

The difference between situations that God uses to sharpen us and the tragedies and misfortunes that occur in life is that God will never break your heart.  God will not take your children from you to teach you a lesson. He will not send cancer to your spouse or cause a loved one to get hit by a drunk driver or something like that.  He might test us with temporary hardships and adversities that are meant to cause us to learn how to draw close to Him, but nothing God sends us will ever harm us when His purpose is to build us up.

 

I'll give you a good example here (from my own life). When I was six years old (it was 1987), my cousin Matthew died from Leukemia, the bone marrow and treatments didn't work in the end. He was 11 years old. My aunt Becky (Matthew's mom) suffered much after his death. The next day or the following week, she couldn't talk or get off the couch from what I was told, because the grief was so debilitating. The next 20 years she hit the bottle hard and became an alcoholic. She eventually died a few years ago from a bad liver, her organs just shut down completely. She drank hard...and long. Aunt Becky never found God I am sad to say. So my question is, why didn't God draw near to my aunt knowing of her difficult circumstances? (John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.)

 

So sorry for the loss of your cousin brother. That would be a very difficult journey to walk.

Having a little one and another on the way I can only imagine what it would be like to loose a child to leukemia. I did have a young friend (and Believer) growing up who died of leukemia at the age of 13. His name was David and his story has challenged me.

My father has told me in the past that 90% of happens to us is related to our response(s) to situations. The other 10% is the actual events themselves which we have little or no control over.

God never drew away from your aunt brother. She chose to find "peace" in drinking instead of God. She made her pain her substitute god (idol) and drinking her medication. When instead she should've sought peace in God and God's Word/prayer/Biblical counseling/fellowship with other Believers as the medication. Jesus is the ultimate physician.

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

Now let's move on to #2 - but I will have to come back tonight.

Okay still waiting brother.

[GoldenEagle]

 

Hello GoldenEagle and shiloh357, and blessings to you these holidays. I have questions, concerns if you may. Ok, you say he puts more on us than we can endure. Can you please explain this more in-depth using examples, scriptures or personal wisdom. What if he puts more on us to the point of sinking into depression, suicidal thoughts or even developing cancer?

 

Other than Joseph there are a few other examples that come to mind.

Re: Moses

The people of Israel were made slaves to the Egyptians as a new Pharaoh came into power who didn't know Joseph. Did God have a purpose for this? Yes. God's purpose was to show His glory to the nations, claim Israel as His own people, and plunder the Egyptians.

Moses was a murderer (Exodus 2:11-15) who fled Egypt to escape Pharaoh's wrath. Moses was a man who didn't speak well. Moses spent his "youth" or first 40 years as a prince. Moses then spent the next 40 years as a herdsman in the wilderness. At the age of 80, God saw fit to bless Moses into starting his life's work and being an instrument in God's plan for taking Israel out of Egypt. Moses was tasked with going back to Egypt where he was known as murderer. Yet God protected Moses and God showed His power through the plagues on Egypt.

 

Because of Moses's lack of faith (Numbers 20:2-13 and Deut. 32:51) in God Moses wasn't allowed to enter the promised land and died at the age of 120.

Moses life wasn't easy. Moses actually broke one of the very commandments that God gave him later on to teach Israel (You shall not murder). Moses was estranged from his family for many years, criticized by the world's most prominent ruler (Pharaoh), criticized by his own people (Israel), and made to wonder the wilderness for 40 years after being used by God to basically bring Egypt to it's knees. Yet God was with Moses and accomplished His purpose.

Anyone have any thoughts?

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

Re: King Josiah

Josiah became king over Judah at the age of 8 after the murder of his father King Amon. It wasn't until the 18th year of Josiah's reign (Josiah was 26 at the time) that the temple priests (Hilikiah) were tasked with renovating the temple in Jerusalem. (See 2 Kings 22) There amongst the rubble they found what many understand today to be the book of Deuteronomy. And Josiah has Saphan read it to him. Keep in mind that the law was "lost" for at least 77 years.

Check out Deuteronomy 4. Read it as if you were reading it for the first time. There are three things that stood out to me if I were reading it for the first time...
1. The command is to not have any idol worship but instead to worship God alone.
2. The command was given specifically that the Lord alone was God.
3. The command was to follow the laws of Moses.

 

Even more so imagine reading on through the book of Deuteronomy and coming accross this passage... Particularly the verses in bold: The King was to transcribe his very own copy of the law for himself to read all the days of his life - in order to better understand how to fear God and do the commands in the law.
 

Deut. 17:18-20
 

¹⁸ “And when he sits on the throne of his kingdom, he shall write for himself in a book a copy of this law, approved by the Levitical priests. ¹⁹ And it shall be with him, and he shall read in it all the days of his life, that he may learn to fear the Lord his God by keeping all the words of this law and these statutes, and doing them, ²⁰ that his heart may not be lifted up above his brothers, and that he may not turn aside from the commandment, either to the right hand or to the left, so that he may continue long in his kingdom, he and his children, in Israel.

 

What was the King of Israel supposed to read? The law. To be read every day of his life. Wow! No King of Israel had read this for a very long time. It had been at least 77 years since this book was read as the two preceeding kings were evil and didn't follow the Lord (the 55 year reign of King Manessah and 22 years of King Amon's reign.)

Interesting though that Josiah is mentioned in the genealogy of Jesus Christ in the book of Matthew. (See Matthew 1:1-17)

 

God used a young man who was raised an idolater to bring an entire nation back into the worship of the one true God - Yahweh.

Josiah destroyed the vessels used for worship of Baal, Asherah, the sun, the moon, and the stars. Josiah also destroyed the houses of male prostitutes who resided in the Temple. This was a difficult undertaking for Josiah yet God led the young king through this time of Israel's history.

Anyone have any thoughts?

God bless,

GE

PS - I can also think of King David and Paul as examples of suffering. But let's discuss Moses and Josiah for now?

[TheCurseOfTheRodain]

So if suffering is what God uses to build character, then how did Jesus, who was exactly the same as all of us (philippians 2), have the character that He had when He only suffered at the cross?

[GoldenEagle]

So if suffering is what God uses to build character, then how did Jesus, who was exactly the same as all of us (philippians 2), have the character that He had when He only suffered at the cross?

 

You are bringing up another point... First things first... What about point #2 and #3 from

 

 

#2) WHY did God the Father lay ALL sickness and disease on Jesus' body at the cross, and then say "By His stripes, ye were healed."? What purpose did this serve and why did God lay all sickness and disease on HIS body? (Hint: it wasn't for HIS sake, in the same way that at the cross Jesus didn't become poor for HIS sake, and at the cross Jesus didn't use His faith to take on ALL sin into His body for HIS sake). Now why would God do that? What did God accomplish with that, and WHY?

 

#3) If sickness and disease are BLESSINGS as you contend, and we had ALL blessings in Eden and Jesus ONLY blessed, and we will have ALL blessings in Heaven, then WHY won't sickness or disease exist in Heaven? I mean, if they're so wonderful - why do they get thrown into the Lake of Fire with the Devil, rather than be our teacher or a blessing to us? There is no answer to this question other than, because sickness and disease are part of the CURSE, NOT the Blessing of the Lord. Every place blessing is defined, there is no mention or example of it being sickness or disease, rather, it is fruitfulness, increase, multiplication, authority and power.

 

Please provide specific Scriptural passages in support of your point #2 so we can understand where you are getting the above from.

 

You have said twice now that you will address #2... Please do so.

 

I'll get on to point #2 now, but I have to get going.

 

Now let's move on to #2 - but I will have to come back tonight.

 

God bless,

GE

[Guest shiloh357]

So if suffering is what God uses to build character, then how did Jesus, who was exactly the same as all of us (philippians 2), have the character that He had when He only suffered at the cross?

Jesus was not exactly same as us.  Jesus was God and the very Son of God while on earth.   Jesus was sinless and had no need of character development.

 

Philippians two doesn't say that Jesus became just like us.  Jesus didn't empty Himself of anything that made Him God.

 

Here is some Scripture you need to consider:

 

Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces patience.

Jas 1:2-3

 

More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope,

Rom 5:3-4

 

It is in the crucible of suffering and trials that we learn how to trust God, it is in those times that we truly find God to be faithful.  That's when His faithfulness shines the brightest.  If we didn't encounter suffering, we wouldn't learn how to endure and persevere